Help lowering estrogen. ADVICE NEEDED

C

Colin297

New member
Hi guys

I joined this forum for some advice as i see alot of you guy seem to be very knowledgeable about this stuff

My story basically is that i am a sufferer of "Post Finasteride (Propecia) Syndrome" ....i.e. the drug has sent my hormone levels into problem zone.

I've been off the drug since March and my sexual effects have continued to worsen (low libido, weak erections, watery semen)

I've been to the endochronologist and we'll be (hopefully!) looking at treatment options soon.

Here are my results from October:


FSH
Result: 2.2 U/L
Range: 1.5 - 12.4

LH
Result: 4.9 U/L
Range: 1.7 - 8.6

Prolactin
Result: 164 Mu/L
Range: 86 - 324

Oestradiol
Result: 163 pmol/L *OOR* (HI)
Range: 28 - 156

Serum Testosterone
Result: 33.8 nmol/L
Range: 10 - 34



High estrogen levels but also high T levels. Clearly something wrong given my sides...


My latest results are:


FSH: 2.0 U/L Range: 1.5 - 12.4
LH: 5.5 U/L Range: 1.7 - 8.6
Prolactin: 311 mU/L Range: 86-324
Oestradiol: 182 pmol/L Range: 28-156

Youll notice i dont have testosterone levels etc this was because the blood sample wasn't big enough so i'll be getting retested.


In the month between these two tests my sides have worsened (penis pain/shinkage ....apparently this happens when your testosterone takes a dip and you are androgen deficient)

Pending my next blood test, obviously, i think its patently clear i need to reverse this trend of soaring E2 levels.



What is my best bet?


My endo seemed against anti-estrogens like arimidex and particularly nolvedex.

What do you guys think? I'm thinking, if he doesnt play ball (i mean, all he's given me so far is cialis - not exactly treating the root cause!!) I might have to take matters into my own hands. Its not his penis that is shrinking!! Obviously i'll try talk him into any treatment plan first and regardless of his particpation ill be looking for with bi-weekly bloods. Something like 0.25mg a week of Arimidex (maybe twice a week). Micro-dosages. What do you think?

I see a few people talking about aromasin also, would this be a potentially better option again? I read its a permanent enzme inhibitor? In one way i guess this would mean it will cap my estrogen levels permanently but surely this is risky, no?


Please note i need something "safe" that wont mess up my system when i go off it. I've read that sometimes people that take AI's have a backlash after they stop the drug (increase in E2 again...potential gyno etc!) What is the realistic case here.....not with aromasin anyway?

Lastly ive heard of proviron. Would this be any good? I know im pretty much low on DHT (despite continued hairloss and beard growth) so this might be an option. Again i need something that will reset my levels sustainably?


Oh and, anyone know what kind of E2 levels would be optimum for me? Mid range??



All advice appreciated. Seriously :)
 
Last edited:
i would try some aromasin @ 25mg ED and clomid @ 50 and nolva @ 20mg

do this for 4 weeks.

im saying this because of your results, i know nothing about finasteride.
 
THE-DET-OAK said:
i would try some aromasin @ 25mg ED and clomid @ 50 and nolva @ 20mg

do this for 4 weeks.

im saying this because of your results, i know nothing about finasteride.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reponse mate.

Why 3 different treatments? Would it not be wiser to start with one? Is my E2 silly high? What should i be aiming for iyo?

Also, my concern with any Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is , after i go off it ? Particularly in aromasin's case - would i not need to sustain dosage or face my e2 creeping up again?

I read clomid can increase E2?
Why supplement aromasin with nolva a weaker anti-estrogen?

I'm just terrified of making a bad first treatment plan because so many guys have fucked their systems up after a finasteride "crash" trying lots of different stuff.
 
I think you are a little confused about what each compound is.

Nolva and Clomid ar SERMS...............they are anti e..............but they do not lower estrogen.

Aromasin lowers estrogen. Since Aromasin is a suicidal Aromatase inhibitor (AI) there is no chance of a rebound. Also using adex or letro, the other 2 AI's, with a SERM is counter productive. they will both be less effective because of the SERM.

Nolva and Clomid are both SERMS, but they act completely different in different tissues of the body. These two will help stimulate LH and FSH. Also I have recommended a low dose of each, IMO it is more effective to do that than run higher doses of just 1.

The Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (aromatase inhibitor) is what will lower your estrogen.
 
THE-DET-OAK said:
out of the 3 compounds there is only one that actually lowers estrogen
Click to expand...

But nolva inhbits the working of estrogens thereby further lowering the estrogenic dominance in my body, right?

So are you telling me nolva and clomid just for my FSH/LH or what?

Sorry, i guess im still a little green in this area
 
Nolva and Clomid (SERMS) do nothing to lower estrogen levels. They simply trick the body into thinking you have low estrogen. even though E levels are unaffected.

Estrogen is suppressive to natty T levels. It is clear by your results that the elevated E levels are telling your body not to produce test. clomid and nolva will increase LH telling your balls to produce more T
 
THE-DET-OAK said:
Nolva and Clomid (SERMS) do nothing to lower estrogen levels. They simply trick the body into thinking you have low estrogen. even though E levels are unaffected.

Estrogen is suppressive to natty T levels. It is clear by your results that the elevated E levels are telling your body not to produce test. clomid and nolva will increase LH telling your balls to produce more T
Click to expand...

Cool

But my T from my October readings were top range as you can see. Im assuming they've dropped since due to the continued rise in E2 but......do you think if i simply drop E2 that the test levels will recover as a simple effect of this?

Or is it because aromasin is a suicide inhibitor there will be no extra testosterone (whereas there would be with Arimidex for instance?)

I mean, my T levels will still be atleast mid-range

Thanks
 
u can just use the aromasin then,..........you mentioned low libido and your fsh levels suck. problem is those bounce all over the place so without multiple tests i can not be sure, but iw ould assume they are low cause your e is so high. it wouldnt hurt to add the SERM's but i guess you do not HAVE to. personally i would though.
 
THE-DET-OAK said:
u can just use the aromasin then,..........you mentioned low libido and your fsh levels suck. problem is those bounce all over the place so without multiple tests i can not be sure, but iw ould assume they are low cause your e is so high. it wouldnt hurt to add the SERM's but i guess you do not HAVE to. personally i would though.
Click to expand...

Yeah the 3 FSH tests ive had are terrilbe:

2.2
2.0
1.9

Ive been told this is probably to do with my watery semen.

Im not against using those SERM's at all just worried about side efffects of nolva in particular.#

EDIT: My prolactin is also high - think i'll take cabergoline for it.


I do think everything is linked to my E2 levels though so if i can cap them i reckon everything else will self-correct.
 
use an even lower dose like 10mg. you will not have sides at that dose. clomid is better anyway. but nolva does things clomid cant so they are best in conjunction. if your fsh levels are always low, and they said that could be why your semen is watery then def run the serm
 
THE-DET-OAK said:
use an even lower dose like 10mg. you will not have sides at that dose. clomid is better anyway. but nolva does things clomid cant so they are best in conjunction. if your fsh levels are always low, and they said that could be why your semen is watery then def run the serm
Click to expand...

Although i have no baselines (pre-finasteride) im sure they weren't always low. The watery semen is an effect (a well renouned one) from finasteride.

Thanks for your help, mucho appreciated!
 
DEK-OAK - one more thing: i read nolva and clomid boost LH. What about FSH? My LSH is mid-range.

Also, surely those 3 in on go would be overkill of estrogen blocker/inhibitor, no?
 
it should do both. Honestly there is debate that the even work at all but most beleive they do.

aromasin has been shown to keep estrogen within range @ 25mg ED in men not taking anything else.

i would not run nolva for long periods, if i ran clomid for long periods it would be at a smaller dose.

with this protocol your hoping to balance them out, then take the drugs away. Hopefully they will stay balanced.
 
Oak is on the money here. The high estone levels have caused a shutdown of your HPTA. As shown by your FSH and LH levels. I would run letro at 2.5mg ED and implement HCG dosing. This will boost your FSH and LH levels. Once your androgen levels pick up and your estrone levels drop start to taper down the letro very slowly and discontinue the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG).

Then approximately 4 days after your last HCG shot start using clomid for 4 weeks at 100/50/50/25. You should be right as rain in a month with the HCG and letro then another month with clomid to restart your HPTA. To clarify you will still be tapering down the letro slowly while starting the clomid.
 
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