Help with understanding PCT

[JakeP]

Just as a starter - Im 18 years old and not planning to use anything in the near future, a few years yet at least. Im just trying to get all my information.

After a cycle, say perhaps of Test Prop you go into PCT using Nolva, Aromasin or Letro etc, although I understand that this is completely needed I don't fully understand why. Is it just to prevent estrogen related side effects whilst they return back to normal? or are they actually used directly to return estrogen back to normal?
To rephrase the question, will estrogen levels return to normal without the use of one of these supplements or are the inhibitors etc needed to do this?#

Thanks

 

[kaname]

The below is taking from DocJ's sticky (Massive Newbie Info). Link to the full thread here: steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/111479-massive-newbie-info.html

Post Cycle Therapy (PCT):
An anti-estrogen is needed upon the completion of your cycle for sure. With all that free floating estrogen you need to prevent the estrogen from attaching to your receptors and causing their damage. The wrath of estrogen in the aftermath of a cycle is referred to a back lashing of estrogen.
You also need something to help stimulate your HPTA. Something needs to be done about your own testosterone production to combat catabolism, to restore libido and avoid depression.
A very successful compound to stimulate the HPTA is clomid. clomid stimulates the hypophysis to release more gonadotropin so that a faster and higher release of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and LH (luteinizing hormone) occurs. This results in an elevated endogenous (body's own) testosterone level. Sorry I threw some mighty big words out there.
A good PCT combo is Nolvadex and clomid. Nolvadex is an anti-estrogen.

Typical of a Nolvadex and clomid PCT is as such:
Day1 300mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex
Day 2-11 100mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex
Day12-21 50mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex

Timing the PCT correctly:
Back to applying the concept of Esters. Compounds bound to long acting esters require a longer waiting period for PCT to be administered. Likewise, compounds bound to short acting esters require a shorter waiting period for PCT to be administered.
Steroid.....Time After Administration.....clomid Length
aratest...........................3 weeks........3 weeks
Anadrol50/Anapolan50........8-12 hours.....3 weeks
deca Durobolan................3 weeks........4 weeks
Dianabol..........................4-8 hours.......3 weeks
Equipoise.........................17-21 days.....3 weeks
Finajet/Trenbolone............3 days...........3 weeks
primobolan Depot..............10-14 days.....2 weeks
Sustanon.........................3 weeks........3 weeks
test cypionate.................2 weeks........3 weeks
test Enthenate/Testoviron..2 weeks........3 weeks
test propionate.................3 days..........3 weeks
test Suspension................4-8 hours......2 weeks
Winstrol...........................8-12 hours.....2 weeks

 

[iLiftForMe]

First off, aromasin is just an anti estrogen, and dont worry about letro, most people will never need it. And ill try to explain PCT in a nutshell, while you are using anabolics your bodies natural production of testosterone is shut down. Meaning you have no natural test. Now when you stop your cycle, now you have no artificial (injected) test AND no natural test. Most people will recover fine without a post cycle therapy (pct), BUT you will lose a large amount, if not all, of what you gained while on cycle not to mention it can take 6 months or longer. PCT kickstarts your bodies natural production of testosterone, so that you will (hopefully) raise your natural test back to usual in about 4 weeks.

 

[Iron Giant]

Just as a starter - Im 18 years old and not planning to use anything in the near future, a few years yet at least. Im just trying to get all my information.

After a cycle, say perhaps of Test Prop you go into PCT using Nolva, Aromasin or Letro etc, although I understand that this is completely needed I don't fully understand why. Is it just to prevent estrogen related side effects whilst they return back to normal? or are they actually used directly to return estrogen back to normal?
To rephrase the question, will estrogen levels return to normal without the use of one of these supplements or are the inhibitors etc needed to do this?#

Thanks

1) Nolva is the only SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) you mentioned (used for PCT to restart natural test production)...Aromasin and Letro are both AI's (Aromatase Inhibitors) used to control estrogen while ON cycle.
2) When on a cycle the exogenous hormones (test) you are injecting suppress the function of your HPTA (hypothalamic pituitary testicular axis), meaning you are not producing any testosterone of your own. PCT is used (sometimes in conjunction with an Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) protocol) to restart your HPTA so your body can produce it's own test again (no test...no gains/loss of gains).
3) These aren't "supplements"...you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for cycle (at the very least on hand to control estrogen) and you need SERM(s) for PCT to restart your HPTA. This isn't optional, it's necessary.

P.S. 23 is the ABSOLUTE earliest you should cycle. Any younger and you should put your volcano suit on...because flaming will ensue.

 

[JakeP]

Thanks! that was really helpful, but if its your test that's been reduced then why do you get all the estro related sides like gyno etc? Ive heard in places that you should have a blood test before hand to check if everything back to normal, does this imply that there is a chance your hormone levels may stay bad? even from just one cycle of test?

 

[iLiftForMe]

Thanks! that was really helpful, but if its your test that's been reduced then why do you get all the estro related sides like gyno etc? Ive heard in places that you should have a blood test before hand to check if everything back to normal, does this imply that there is a chance your hormone levels may stay bad? even from just one cycle of test?

Yes, there is a chance that your HPTA and natural test production will never fully recover with ANY steroid cycle. (although the risk may be reduced with proper knowledge and a PCT) And you get estrogen side from the test aromatising (spelling? lol) into estrogen. Basically some of the test will turn into estrogen which is why you need the AI's. Read the stickies at the top of the list of threads, you will find a lot of information from people who know a lot more than me.

 

[JakeP]

Oh ok, so Nolva is used to restart the production of test after the cycle and the an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) should be used during the cycle to control estrogen.
Is a blood test really necessary for one cycle of test since you can just use SERMS and AI's to counter sides and stimulate test again?

 

[JakeP]

Thank man, yeah will do

 

[Iron Giant]

Oh ok, so Nolva is used to restart the production of test after the cycle and the an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) should be used during the cycle to control estrogen.
Is a blood test really necessary for one cycle of test since you can just use SERMS and AI's to counter sides and stimulate test again?

Blood tests are ALWAYS a good idea...the minimum is pre-cycle and 1-2 months following post cycle therapy (pct). You can also get bloods done while on cycle to dial in your Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dose better.

P.S. There's no such thing as "one cycle", just like you can't just eat "1 cookie" (obviously these are protein cookies, cmon)...once you join the dark side, you'll never want to go back to natty hah.

 

[iLiftForMe]

^agreed. and the reason people find blood tests so important and necessary is 1. So you can check all your levels, make sure everything is gtg your Aromatase inhibitor (AI) isnt bunk or under dosed etc, and 2. To make sure that your PCT did its job and your test is back up and going.

 

[JimiThing]

Hey OP start reading through the stickies at the top of the forum, Its great you started this thread and Im glad you did but you will also find a wealth of info in the stickies that seems right along the lines of information you are gathering.