I Hate To Say This, BUT...

[Nelson - Montana]

I've reconsidered the efficacy of some supplements. Anyone who's read my book know I dismiss quite a few supplements that are still cosidered effective (i.e gluamine, ZMA, etc) and there's been new evidence that Flax oil (which I recommended highly, by the way) may have estrogenic properties and may cause a greater risk of prostate cancer. (get your Omega 3's from fish and olive oil , or whole flax seeds). Saw palmetto lowers DHT, which isn't necessarily a good thing. Gugglesterones suck and folskolin may actually be dangerous. But I'd like to add a couple more that I once though were good. The main one being...

Glucosamine/Condroiton. I REALLY wanted to believe this stuff worked. All the research was glowing. But in the real world, or at least MY world, this stuff doesn't do dick. I suffer from arthritus and tendonitus and I've used quadruple the recommend dosage of this shit for months and it did absolutely nothing. When I stopped the treatment my symptoms were no worse. I tried going on again for another 2 months -- nothing again. I truly believe Glucosamine is inert when taken orally.


r-ala is another. It's a good supp but highly over rated. It may have some liver protection qualities, and work as an anti-oxidant and it may be good for those with high blood sugar. But high doses can lower blood sugar too much. By the way, low insulin levels have been associated with high SHBG. (Interesting)

Another is B12 shots. These do nothing that eating B12 won't do. It's as simple as that. There is no advantage to injection. Vitamins were meant to be ingested orally.


Then again, I'm more amazed than ever at the efficacy of Taurine, Avena Sativa, Lycopene, Olive Leaf, Inositol, Cndium, 7 keto and beta glucan. There are many more but these come to mind as near miricale substances.

This may off topic but I might as well pass this on. I've been an advocate of alternative medicine for decades but I've come to some undeniable conclusions and it's time to face the facts. One of those facts is that acupuncture is pure fucking quackery. Oh, it may...MAY...help in terms of relieving pain simply for the fact that it may deaden some nerve endings (all that crap about chi and such is hogwash with no scientific validity at all) but accupuncture cures nothing. Even traditional medicine gave it a fair shake and came up with disappointing results. If it was so good, we'd all be getting accuuncture. I know, there will always be someone who says it helped them. But I believe it was something that would have healed on its own. After all, there are people who also swear by homeopathy, feng shui and prayer . Sorry. Ain't buying it.

Another practice that I hasn't panned out is ART (Active Release Technique) It has its place as a form of deep fascial massage, but it too won't cure any serious debilitation IMO. And lord knows, I've given it many chances. Again, that doesn't mean it's worthless, but much like chiropractic, it's great for certain conditions, but all too often these doctors think what they do is the cure for everything from impotence to bed wetting. The best doctors, be it alternative or traditional realize every practice is just another tool in total health care. There's no one way to anything.


I don't know what got me on this rant. But I figured it may hekp some people. And I'm sure there will be those who adamantly disagree. But that's why we're here right?






Right?






.

 

[jarbulldog]

nice post bro

 

[Flex it]

I'm kinda curious as to if the brand of Glucosamine and Chondroiton matter because I've heard Orthopedic surgeons rave about it, and also there has been a lot of positive feedback on it.

 

[jarbulldog]

i do not trust most dotors because some are in the pockets of the pharm companies

 

[needsize]

I agree with all of that except glucosamine and chrondroitin, I use those along with msm and have noticed that they really have helped over the years

 

[DADAWG]

I'm kinda curious as to if the brand of Glucosamine and Chondroiton matter because I've heard Orthopedic surgeons rave about it, and also there has been a lot of positive feedback on it.

im hearing the same things and some of the feedback ive heard is from people who are pretty dependable . with some supplements/vitamins/etc. there is a difference of results from person to person and i wonder sometimes if some people have better results from them because either they had a deficiency to begin with or they for some reason absorb them better . i may noy always agree with nelson [ no offense ] but he is perfectly capable of giving feedback on glucosamine and chondroiton and as far as these 2 particular products i would think their results would depend on your particular problem , bone spurs ,deterioated cartilidge , etc.

 

[brooklynheight]

interested in the r-ala stuff--macro........ulter????????

 

[ulter]

He can have his opinion. It's not based in fact. It's not based in science. It's just something he wants to post, and since he's shown several times, and does again in his post, that he doesn't even know what R+ ALA does it's kinda silly.
Glucorell R is used to increase the uptake of glucose into your muscle cells and doesn't lower your insulin levels below normal. So by bringing up the downside of low insulin levels he shows once again that he doesn't understand the drug. It doesn't cause low insulin levels. Just normal levels. R+ALA is in every muscle cell in your body already. When you use AS or don't eat right it gets depleted over time and Glucorell R just replaces it so your muscle cells burn glucose better. He doesn't know any of this. He thinks that if he posts this people will just say, "Oh Nelson says it's no good" and people will just believe. He doesn't give people much credit to look it up for themselves in order to make their own decision. How do I know he thinks this. He emailed me and told me he was going to bash our products because I keep arguing with him about the things he posts. This must be what he had in mind.

Knock yourself out Nelson.

 

[brooklynheight]

real quick ulter ---r ala post workout b4 ur high carb shake and b4 your meal?---while cutting?

 

[cant get BIG]

i happen to love glucosamine...it makes my joints feel great. no shoulder pain like i have when i am off it

 

[Nelson - Montana]

He can have his opinion. It's not based in fact. It's not based in science. It's just something he wants to post, and since he's shown several times, and does again in his post, that he doesn't even know what R+ ALA does it's kinda silly.
Glucorell R is used to increase the uptake of glucose into your muscle cells and doesn't lower your insulin levels below normal. So by bringing up the downside of low insulin levels he shows once again that he doesn't understand the drug. It doesn't cause low insulin levels. Just normal levels. R+ALA is in every muscle cell in your body already. When you use AS or don't eat right it gets depleted over time and Glucorell R just replaces it so your muscle cells burn glucose better. He doesn't know any of this. He thinks that if he posts this people will just say, "Oh Nelson says it's no good" and people will just believe. He doesn't give people much credit to look it up for themselves in order to make their own decision. How do I know he thinks this. He emailed me and told me he was going to bash our products because I keep arguing with him about the things he posts. This must be what he had in mind.

Knock yourself out Nelson.

I really wish you would stop lying. I don't know how else to put it. A lie is lie and this is yet another.

I did e-mail ulter because he went onto the forum which I decided to no longer post and told a bunch of lies there after he knew I would no longer go on and dispute him. I tried to reason with his sense of prosfessionalism (?) and told him I have never attacked his company and would appreciate it if he didn't attack mine. He prattled on about how he was on a mission or something and he needed to tell the world that I was this horrible person leading them to ruin with information that he disagreed wit -- therefore it must be stopped. Even in this post , which was as benign as can be, he insinuates I'm out to deceive people. He also misquotes me and puts words in mouth and makes false assumptions -- a typical tactic of his. I think it just makes him look foolish and presents his company in a bad light.

I did not mention ulter. He chose to come onand disparage me. If the administration say it's in his right to do so, fine. But I have a right to say he's wrong. And he is.

 

[TxLonghorn]

...stop lying.

A lie is lie and this is yet another.

...told a bunch of lies

He prattled on...

I did not mention ulter. He chose to come onand disparage me. If the administration say it's in his right to do so, fine. But I have a right to say he's wrong. And he is.

These are pretty incendiary words, be careful. Ulter came on here, didn't go over the top and answered the post with his thoughts on r-ala.

You might not have mentioned ulter, but one of the responders to your post did, also it is well known he is mr. r-ala. Also, if you want to make sweeping generalizations, feel free, but to think you are being attacked when you are called on these generalizations is silly. It's a foregone conclusion if you post up something without any basis somebody's gonna say something about it.

If I say r-ala sucks ass, that's my opinion. I also know that if I say that, ulter or macro will come on the thread and post their thoughts. To think otherwise is wishful thinking. This is a discussion board, and if you can't back up your opinions, be prepared for the consequences.

Ulter and macro have posted up all kinds of info on the positives of r-ala. What do you base your opinions on? What experiments did you do personally with r-ala (or anything you have tried good or bad)? If you don't have any experiences to share, all you have is your opinions, and like the saying goes, opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.

Don't get me wrong, your initial post is fine and should spark some comments and debate, but all it is is your opinions on things. No basis for reality except for maybe the glucosamine/chondroitin. Even that is suspect because needsize says he loves the stuff as well as I've read a few studies on the stuff and it seems to pan out. Not every supp works for everybody, even creatine doesn't work for everybody.

 

[Frankie xq]

that accupuncture thing is wrong. i used to suffer from serious eczema as a child. i tried script anti-histamines, and it would take forever for the rash to go away. my father's friend is an accupuncturist and he didn't live far from us. so we'd go to him when it got bad. he'd put his needles in and i literally saw the rash fade in front of my eyes. thru the years, we've gone to him for various ailments, all remedied successfully.

by trade he was a part-time conductor. he never made a living from accupuncture. he just practiced on his family and a few neighbors. he didn't charge any of us a single dime.

 

[Nelson - Montana]

These are pretty incendiary words, be careful. Ulter came on here, didn't go over the top and answered the post with his thoughts on r-ala.

You might not have mentioned ulter, but one of the responders to your post did, also it is well known he is mr. r-ala. Also, if you want to make sweeping generalizations, feel free, but to think you are being attacked when you are called on these generalizations is silly. It's a foregone conclusion if you post up something without any basis somebody's gonna say something about it.

If I say r-ala sucks ass, that's my opinion. I also know that if I say that, ulter or macro will come on the thread and post their thoughts. To think otherwise is wishful thinking. This is a discussion board, and if you can't back up your opinions, be prepared for the consequences.

Ulter and macro have posted up all kinds of info on the positives of r-ala. What do you base your opinions on? What experiments did you do personally with r-ala (or anything you have tried good or bad)? If you don't have any experiences to share, all you have is your opinions, and like the saying goes, opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.

Don't get me wrong, your initial post is fine and should spark some comments and debate, but all it is is your opinions on things. No basis for reality except for maybe the glucosamine/chondroitin. Even that is suspect because needsize says he loves the stuff as well as I've read a few studies on the stuff and it seems to pan out. Not every supp works for everybody, even creatine doesn't work for everybody.

No arguments there. It was an informal post based on my perspective and opinion. My remarks about ulter are directed at his comments.

And I quote:

"He doesn't know any of this." "Nelson doesn't give people credit" "He told me he was going to bash my products" All untrue.

And the insulin remark was seperate, but granted, spured by the "glucose" topic.

 

[Rokomuscle1]

For those of you who have not gotten results from Glucosamine/Condroiton...I beg you to try MSM only....buy it from whatever store you want as I am not advocating any of them...try it at 3000mg a day (1500 in the morning and 1500 in the evening) for a week...then drom it down to 1500 a day.. I guarantee your joints will feel better....key word being better...not perfect...what I noticed in 3 days was that walking down the stairs I noticed no aches or pains in my knees..which I usually felt... If anyone on here has any faith in anything I say here....please try it..and post your results.

 

[Spectre]

NM; I understand that B12 uptake is seriously inhibited by the gut, that's why their are B12 injectables.. The stuff is cheaper than dirt, so I don't think it's an overhyped supplement company deal... What's your research show?

 

[tee]

I have used glucosamine and chondroitan with good results on my achey joints. I do agree with Nelson about the other items. I have used them as well with absolutely no results.

 

[LAWNSAVER]

I too had great success with Gl/CH supps! I had to take double the dose, and it took about 4-6 weeks for me to really feel anything, but it did make training and cardio much more comfortable.

I will also say Guggle had a great effect on my LDL and HDL levels. I really cant say if its effects on my estrogen levels did anything noticably bad...

I regularly use Guggle and R-ala and feel like they have great benifits for me.

And on a side note...

Nelson, Ulter, Macro...please just cut this BS out!!

I really dont care what personal differences you all have, but there is not place for the childish verbage here!

Come on guys, cant we all just get along???

 

[kube]

accupuncture has been around for thousands of years but nelson has it all figured out and has decided that it just doesnt work. that is a bold statement, based not on ANY facts but on his limited opinion.

nelson, there is a cure for arthritis. actually you are going to laugh. it was a chinese accupuncturist/herbalist who convinced me. he took an elderly man who was confined to his wheelchair due to severe arthritis and without needles got him back on his feet and got rid of his arthritis with herbs and a modified diet. the man got lax after being well for over a year and decided to say fuck the diet. he went back to his old eating habits and guess what? his arthritis came back. the herbalist got so pissed off when the man came back to see him for further treatment that he refused to treat him and basically told him to go fuck himself. it took his family alot of pleading but they were able to convince the doc to treat him again. well, the man is back on his feet better than ever. if you are interested in the details just pm me, but then again you have already discounted accupuncture as mere quackery. either way you can get rid of it or at least greatly reduce it without accupuncture or herbs just by modifying your diet bro.

but who am i to counsel you, i am just a nobody without the slightest fuckin credentials. either way, there is a good book about it by some bro who does have credentials who induced an advanced state of arthritis in himself in order to prove that it could be cured. and he did cure himself. if youre interested i will ask my mom for the name of the book. shes been into natural and alternative medicine since i was just a sperm swimming for my fuckin life. you say youre an advocate of natural medicine so give it a shot. it may help you out alot. just swallow your pride and send me a pm.

 

[Nelson - Montana]

accupuncture has been around for thousands of years but nelson has it all figured out and has decided that it just doesnt work. that is a bold statement, based not on ANY facts but on his limited opinion.

nelson, there is a cure for arthritis. actually you are going to laugh. it was a chinese accupuncturist/herbalist who convinced me. he took an elderly man who was confined to his wheelchair due to severe arthritis and without needles got him back on his feet and got rid of his arthritis with herbs and a modified diet. the man got lax after being well for over a year and decided to say fuck the diet. he went back to his old eating habits and guess what? his arthritis came back. the herbalist got so pissed off when the man came back to see him for further treatment that he refused to treat him and basically told him to go fuck himself. it took his family alot of pleading but they were able to convince the doc to treat him again. well, the man is back on his feet better than ever. if you are interested in the details just pm me, but then again you have already discounted accupuncture as mere quackery. either way you can get rid of it or at least greatly reduce it without accupuncture or herbs just by modifying your diet bro.

but who am i to counsel you, i am just a nobody without the slightest fuckin credentials. either way, there is a good book about it by some bro who does have

credentials who induced an advanced state of arthritis in himself in order to prove that it could be cured. and he did cure himself. if youre interested i will ask my mom for the name of the book. shes been into natural and alternative medicine since i was just a sperm swimming for my fuckin life. you say youre an advocate of natural medicine so give it a shot. it may help you out alot. just swallow your pride and send me a pm.

First of all, you don't need the sarcasm. I hear you.

Yes, accupuncture has been around for thousands of years. So has voodoo. It's longevity means nothing.


I LOVE it when people suggest I need to try something before knocking it. THAT'S MY FUCKING JOB!!!

I've tried accupuncture many times -- everyone from modern Western accupuncturists to traditional Asian experts who've been at it for years. I have no reason to knock it. I WANT it to work. It's just that from what I've seen, it really doesn't do much. And I have to believe if it did, modern medicine would employ it, just as many doctors are now recommending certain herbs. Because they work.

My last visit to an accupuncturist was one of the highly recommened guys in NYC. I went to him for some dizziness I was experiencing. He asked to see my tongue. My TOUNGE! THAT"S how he made a diagonosis. He insisted it was more accurate than any modern method. First thing he told me after the "tongue analysis" was that I wasn't sleeping well. No shit. Anybody who is ailing and dizzy is bound to have distubed sleep. Then he told me my yang was off balance and I need more "cooling of the blood" or some such horseshit and he did the needle shtick and...well, nothing. A hundred bucks. As it turned out, I was hypothyroid. A simple blood test revealed this and a tiny bit of Armour thyroid fixed the dizziness. This proves two points: one, a blood test is still the best indicator of general health and "balance." And two; quacks like that accupuncturists are dangerous. I don't think he was a charleton. I believe he really thought he could diagnose people that way. But as it turned out , it's bullshit. Imagine if a real doctor did this? He'd be be sued for malpractise.