I know it's early to consider a protocol change but...

[Chiefy]

HCG is definitely affecting my ability to sleep, and seems to be increasing my pulse and BP a little bit. I've only been on TRT for a week, and here is my protocol:

100mg test cyp EW
300iu hCG EOD

I know that changing protocols in the early weeks of TRT is frowned upon, but I can definitely attribute a few side effects to the hCG. I'm wondering if maybe I'd respond better to a lower dose. I'm thinking about talking to my doctor about making a change, although I can understand if he doesn't want to make any changes so early in my treatment.

I've seen quite a few different protocols for hCG on the these forums, and I'd like to be as informed as possible before speaking with him.

Do you think there would be any benefit in switching to 100mg test cyp on day 1 and 300iu hCG on days 5 and 6 (I've also seen it done on days 6 and 7)? Any other suggestions for lower dose hCG protocols? Should I just ride it out until after my first round of BW?

 

[Jimstigator]

I was doing 250iu HCG twice a week and it messed me up bad... so I stopped completely. Am now doing 50iu EOD and my testes are full size again after 4 of TRT, no HCG. I am going to drop to 25iu EOD and see what happens.

-Jim

 

[halfape211]

I was doing 250iu HCG twice a week and it messed me up bad... so I stopped completely. Am now doing 50iu EOD and my testes are full size again after 4 of TRT, no HCG. I am going to drop to 25iu EOD and see what happens.

-Jim

I'm about to start HCG and I'll be glad to stop the pain down there. Do you mind telling me what symptoms you had that messed you up bad? Then I'll know what to look for if I get messed up.

Chiefy - Too bad the doc did not put you on TRT only for awhile before starting HCG. Then you could have attributed side effects to the proper hormone. Hopefully, your body will adjust and you will be OK again.

 

[Mprtz]

I'm about to start HCG and I'll be glad to stop the pain down there. Do you mind telling me what symptoms you had that messed you up bad? Then I'll know what to look for if I get messed up.

Chiefy - Too bad the doc did not put you on TRT only for awhile before starting HCG. Then you could have attributed side effects to the proper hormone. Hopefully, your body will adjust and you will be OK again.

By the "pain down there" are you talking about the blue balls ache? I wouldn't count on hcg to fix that. I had it for a few weeks and I was on 1000iu per week hcg from the beginning.

 

[juced_porkchop]

well your just starting hrt, could be hcg, could be test, could be combo.
unless you care about ball size or are currently attempting to have a kid i would not even bother with HCG, I havent for years. I would rec taking some DHEA and pregnenolone as part of your (or anyones) HRT protocol.

 

[halfape211]

By the "pain down there" are you talking about the blue balls ache? I wouldn't count on hcg to fix that. I had it for a few weeks and I was on 1000iu per week hcg from the beginning.

Ooh Great! I haven't checked to see if they are blue, but they sure ache a lot. Lol I believe that generally, loss of pain is one of the benefits and that's partially why some of the big name TRT docs give the HCG. It's odd it did not help you in that way. I guess I'll hope for the best

 

[halfape211]

well your just starting hrt, could be hcg, could be test, could be combo.
unless you care about ball size or are currently attempting to have a kid i would not even bother with HCG, I havent for years. I would rec taking some DHEA and pregnenolone as part of your (or anyones) HRT protocol.

I don't know freg all, compared to you, Juiced Porkchop, but I had a different take on HCG. I thought it was better to take HCG and have my body produce DHEA, Pregnenolone (and what other benefits you get from the HTPA pathway) naturally. However, perhaps I'm naïve and I'll hate the day I started HCG.

 

[Chiefy]

I was doing 250iu HCG twice a week and it messed me up bad... so I stopped completely. Am now doing 50iu EOD and my testes are full size again after 4 of TRT, no HCG. I am going to drop to 25iu EOD and see what happens.

-Jim

What kind of issues were you having on your initial dose?

I'm about to start HCG and I'll be glad to stop the pain down there. Do you mind telling me what symptoms you had that messed you up bad? Then I'll know what to look for if I get messed up.

Chiefy - Too bad the doc did not put you on TRT only for awhile before starting HCG. Then you could have attributed side effects to the proper hormone. Hopefully, your body will adjust and you will be OK again.

well your just starting hrt, could be hcg, could be test, could be combo.
unless you care about ball size or are currently attempting to have a kid i would not even bother with HCG, I havent for years. I would rec taking some DHEA and pregnenolone as part of your (or anyones) HRT protocol.

While I can't say with 100% certainty that the hCG is the issue, I'm pretty confident that it is. On all 3 injection days I experienced the same side effects shortly after injecting. Pulse and BP went up for the next 24 hours or so, and it was impossible to sleep the night of an injection day. No issues after my first shot of test before starting hCG. I suppose it could be a combination of the test and hCG, but tough to say at this point.

I definitely care about ball size, but the main reason I'm taking the hCG is to remain fertile.

The side effects that I'm experiencing aren't the end of the world, but definitely not something I'd like to deal with for the long haul. The insomnia is intense. The elevated pulse and BP also leave me feeling kinda shitty. I have a very physically demanding job so I'd like to avoid sending my vitals any higher than they are now.

 

[3J]

nobody is asking him why he is running 300iu EOD???

run 125iu twice a week.. see if that helps

 

[Chiefy]

nobody is asking him why he is running 300iu EOD???

run 125iu twice a week.. see if that helps

Just following my doctor's recommendation, but I'll talk to him about a lower dose as you suggested.

Should hCG be administered toward the end of the week after my test injection? I see that many people inject on day 5 & 6 after their testosterone. Or should it just be evenly spaced out?

 

[3J]

if youre injecting test once a week i recommend you inject the hcg the day before and 3.5 days later..

 

[Jimstigator]

HCG just made my life hell. Right off the bat, severe anxiety, panic, etc. Lost appetite for the entire duration of being on it. Mood dropped into the dumps. Libido gone. Energy down. Well being down. My worst symptom was my nipples lit on fire, like gyno. But I was tested the entire way through it and my sensitive E was never out of range... if anything, it was too low from ADEX. I could go on forever about the sides.

I tried to add it a few weeks later at 100iu twice a week, still bad. I dropped it completely for approx 4 months. Recently, I added it back at 50iu EOD and the boys perked up almost immediately. Haven't confirmed fertility numbers yet, but I am hopeful. Pre-T, my sperm was top notch. After about 4 months, it was borderline low and dropping fast. I would assume its coming back up.

Like I said, I am tempted to try even lower.

And - its not overly rare to see guys struggle with HCG. There is a thread on another board I read with tons of dudes chiming in with their HCG struggles.

If I wasn't trying to have a child, no way in hell I would stay on the stuff.

-Jim

 

[Jimstigator]

From my reading, Dr. Crisler recommends, if doing weekly shots, inject your HCG the two days prior to the T injection.

-Jim

 

[Chiefy]

if youre injecting test once a week i recommend you inject the hcg the day before and 3.5 days later..

Should I assume that this protocol aims to keep a relatively stable amount of hCG in my system, and the protocol below is more about providing a bit of a testosterone boost towards the end of the test cyp half life?

Am I over thinking this?

From my reading, Dr. Crisler recommends, if doing weekly shots, inject your HCG the two days prior to the T injection.

-Jim

 

[Havasu]

well your just starting hrt, could be hcg, could be test, could be combo.
unless you care about ball size or are currently attempting to have a kid i would not even bother with HCG, I havent for years. I would rec taking some DHEA and pregnenolone as part of your (or anyones) HRT protocol.

How much pregnenolone, and how much DHEA a day? Also, why do you recommend these. What is their effect. Do they help maintain testicle size, etc?

 

[halfape211]

How much pregnenolone, and how much DHEA a day? Also, why do you recommend these. What is their effect. Do they help maintain testicle size, etc?

Fairly common knowledge that if you inject test, your HPTA pathway shuts down, your balls shrink and you body stops producing DHEA, etc. So you either take HCG which will make your body produce these other hormones, OR take the hormones (DHEA) etc. Honestly, you need to do a little homework on your own rather than me or others describe benefits of Dhea etc. Google it my friend. You will find the benefits of DHEA to be many and to be amazing. Google DHEA, Pregnenolone and HTPA pathway. Then once you've done a little work, come back and let the guys here (who are just super), fill in any missing areas. just my 2 cents

Common DHEA dose is 50mgs per day until blood works shows you are at optimal level.

 

[halfape211]

HCG just made my life hell. Right off the bat, severe anxiety, panic, etc. Lost appetite for the entire duration of being on it. Mood dropped into the dumps. Libido gone. Energy down. Well being down. My worst symptom was my nipples lit on fire, like gyno. But I was tested the entire way through it and my sensitive E was never out of range... if anything, it was too low from ADEX. I could go on forever about the sides.

I tried to add it a few weeks later at 100iu twice a week, still bad. I dropped it completely for approx 4 months. Recently, I added it back at 50iu EOD and the boys perked up almost immediately. Haven't confirmed fertility numbers yet, but I am hopeful. Pre-T, my sperm was top notch. After about 4 months, it was borderline low and dropping fast. I would assume its coming back up.

Like I said, I am tempted to try even lower.

And - its not overly rare to see guys struggle with HCG. There is a thread on another board I read with tons of dudes chiming in with their HCG struggles.

If I wasn't trying to have a child, no way in hell I would stay on the stuff.

-Jim

Jimstigator and Juiced Porkchop
Thanks for the reply, Jimstigator. After looking at your post and chiefy's post, I'm starting to see why juiced porkchop is no big fan of HCG

 

[Havasu]

Fairly common knowledge that if you inject test, your HPTA pathway shuts down, your balls shrink and you body stops producing DHEA, etc. So you either take HCG which will make your body produce these other hormones, OR take the hormones (DHEA) etc. Honestly, you need to do a little homework on your own rather than me or others describe benefits of Dhea etc. Google it my friend. You will find the benefits of DHEA to be many and to be amazing. Google DHEA, Pregnenolone and HTPA pathway. Then once you've done a little work, come back and let the guys here (who are just super), fill in any missing areas. just my 2 cents

Common DHEA dose is 50mgs per day until blood works shows you are at optimal level.

First, thank you for your response with the high and mighty tone. I've actually been doing quite a bit of research, and reading. As I understand it this site is also a place for learning. I understand that taking Test shuts down your HPTA, and I understand HCG combats that. However, in no article that I've read, nor post that I've read has brought up taking DHEA as an alternative to HCG.

So, yes, I'm still learning. I'd rather ask the question that seems dumb to you, so that I have good information than go off on my own with bad, or no information. Usually that mind set is recommended here.

If anyone else is willing to offer up a recommendation of frequency and dose for pregnenolone I would appreciate it. I've used it in the past. It's my understanding that it helps balance hormone levels.

 

[halfape211]

First, thank you for your response with the high and mighty tone. I've actually been doing quite a bit of research, and reading. As I understand it this site is also a place for learning. I understand that taking Test shuts down your HPTA, and I understand HCG combats that. However, in no article that I've read, nor post that I've read has brought up taking DHEA as an alternative to HCG.

So, yes, I'm still learning. I'd rather ask the question that seems dumb to you, so that I have good information than go off on my own with bad, or no information. Usually that mind set is recommended here.

If anyone else is willing to offer up a recommendation of frequency and dose for pregnenolone I would appreciate it. I've used it in the past. It's my understanding that it helps balance hormone levels.

Look dude, sorry if I'm a bit direct. No question is a dumb question and I did not say you asked a dumb question. I probably ask a lot of dumb questions. I just found that much of what you were asking about benefits of DHEA, etc is easy to google. Many times you will see suggestions to read stickies, etc when the answers have already been given or are readily available. I certainly did not mean to pick on you. I hate bullies in forums and I apologize, if I came off as one.

BTW I don't think DHEA is a complete alternative to HCG and I still recommend you research what I suggested just to get a better idea about the HPTA pathway.

 

[Havasu]

Look dude, sorry if I'm a bit direct. No question is a dumb question and I did not say you asked a dumb question. I probably ask a lot of dumb questions. I just found that much of what you were asking about benefits of DHEA, etc is easy to google. Many times you will see suggestions to read stickies, etc when the answers have already been given or are readily available. I certainly did not mean to pick on you. I hate bullies in forums and I apologize, if I came off as one.

BTW I don't think DHEA is a complete alternative to HCG and I still recommend you research what I suggested just to get a better idea about the HPTA pathway.

No worries. I'm just trying to learn. From what I've read it appears people are taking about 50mg ed of DHEA, and 50mg-100mg of Pregnenolone. However, I've read that oral absorption is poor and that transdermal is needed. Is this true?

Am I understanding correctly that using Pregnenolone and DHEA is an alternative to HCG, or do you still need HCG, AND to supplement with pregnenolone and DHEA? As I understand it we use HCG to create pregnenolone, please correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, any knowledge would be welcomed and appreciated.