If the pro BBs quit AS all together...

Lift Chief said:
An evolutionary theory as you've suggested would take thousands of years... not a few hundred.

It simply has to do with genetics relating to the part of Africa where they originate from.

It's not evolutionary.

It's only about breedings through multiple generations.

Colombus discovered Americas in 1492. That's more than 500 years for us. That's over 100 generations, which is enough to get really good genetic potential, especially that their people were having children between them. And like the weaker ones usually did not survived, only the stronger ones would have children like I've said.
 
I have a take on this subject. Back in the slave days the white man killed all of the weak black people only to leave strong ones to be slaves. So we just had strong blacks mating and creating bigger and stronger people.
 
Lift Chief said:
An evolutionary theory as you've suggested would take thousands of years... not a few hundred.


Selective breeding.

I don't know if it's a valid explanation, but that's the one I was skirting around when I said I did not wish to speculate.

But Africa, as the birthplace of humanity, has more human genetic diversity than all of the rest of the world.

--dnb
 
Mr. dB said:
Selective breeding.

I don't know if it's a valid explanation, but that's the one I was skirting around when I said I did not wish to speculate.

--dnb

Selective breeding sounds kinda inflamatory. I would say that this is an instance of the bottleneck effect at work.
 
xtinct said:
Selective breeding sounds kinda inflamatory. I would say that this is an instance of the bottleneck effect at work.

As the possessor of a useless BA in anthropology, I should've thought of that. 'Course that was 23 years ago...

--dnb
 
Yes but they aren't getting any different dominant genes. Where as the whites that would mix with italians, german, irish, and whatever were filtering out weak genes by breading not exterminating the weak. So as far as black BB goes they will always have weak calfs, and whatever else goes with having predominately black genes. Not saying the blacks are worse off for this, but its gene exchanging that creates evolution and the stronger surviving, not extermination of the weak. And in a day that the blacks hunted by running after game the whites would just shoot it with a gun or grow it. So the black would be in great shape from sort of working out anyways. Its like if I went to the gym and killed all the fat people that just got a member ship but then breeded all the ones that have worked out for a few years. Doesnt mean they have better genetics!
 
bassmanjp said:
here are some heights that I pulled out about a month ago for a friend. Indeed, not many top bb are over 6'. I should have got the weight of them. But you know, they are really heavy.

Darrem Charles 5'8"
Ron Coleman 5'11"
Chris Cormier 5'9"
Porter Cottrell 5'6"
Kevin Levrone 5'9"
Mike Matazzaro 5'10"
Tom Platz 5'8"
Lee Priest 5'4"
Shawn Ray 5'7"
Jay Cutler 5'9"
Milos Sarcev 5'11"
Nasser Elsonbaty 5'11"
Jean-Pierre Fux 5'11"
Craig Titus 5'9"
Flex Wheeler 5'9"
Dorian Yates 5'10"
Dexter Jackson 5'6"
Dennis James 5'8"
Frank Zane 5'9"
Don Youngblood 5'9"
Oleg Zhur 5'5"
Dany Padilla 5'2"
Gunter Schilerkamp 6'
Rolland Kickinger 6'4"
Arnold Schwarzenegger 6'2"

secret for scar tissue ? hard to say. use small needle, go in slowly, inject slowly, massage well the area, use all the possible sites, make go rotation, have somebody (like a nurse) that knows well how to do it and where to do it... they have to take care of themselves.

I put oil on specific spots on my body after my showers, so I can keep my skin hydrated and flexible, so I don't get stretch marks. I use also a skin lotion with E vitamin before going to bed. It helps a lot your skin. The pros must use some of those skin lotions too.

anyway, as long as i don't get as freaky as Paul Dillett, I should be alright.
what about markus rhuel or how ever you spell it, he is tall as hell andi s the biggest b/b, out of anyone i.m.h.o
 
syclone2659 said:
what about markus rhuel or how ever you spell it, he is tall as hell andi s the biggest b/b, out of anyone i.m.h.o

Markus Ruhl is 5'11" not even 6' :)

and he's about 275 - 280 pounds.
 
Powerhouse9 said:
Yes but they aren't getting any different dominant genes. Where as the whites that would mix with italians, german, irish, and whatever were filtering out weak genes by breading not exterminating the weak. So as far as black BB goes they will always have weak calfs, and whatever else goes with having predominately black genes. Not saying the blacks are worse off for this, but its gene exchanging that creates evolution and the stronger surviving, not extermination of the weak. And in a day that the blacks hunted by running after game the whites would just shoot it with a gun or grow it. So the black would be in great shape from sort of working out anyways. Its like if I went to the gym and killed all the fat people that just got a member ship but then breeded all the ones that have worked out for a few years. Doesnt mean they have better genetics!

Well, it is genetics. They have proper genetics for BB, through breeding of the strongest.

But they will probably have the same strenghts and weaknesses, and this was your calves example, if I understodd you well.

When people with ethnical diversity breeds, they tend to have "better" genetics in an evolutive way. But, they won't necesselary get the right genes for outstanding muscle development. That is more of evolution, by mixing the genes. It would be like if everyone from your gym, go and breed with people from different gyms. Then, yours descendents go and breed with people from different gyms, all around the world, and without consideration of the people being fat, tall, sick or what ever.
 
Powerhouse9 said:
And in a day that the blacks hunted by running after game the whites would just shoot it with a gun or grow it.

This is only true for the past 10,000 years, still just a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms.

--dnb
 
In accordance to what Bassman said, you can understand why the strongest man of the world is a french canadian. Indeed, only the strong people could survive in the colonization times. You must be strong to clear a field...
 
my training partner just tried top compete. he refuses to juice n he says he will never enter a copetition again unless its a all natural he just was blown out the water.its y i blow him out of the water in strength i have hit my genetic potential n choose to scientifically/chemically alter it when i reach my chemical wall with aas i will switch to hgh to mput in the mix.280lbs with 10% bf is my goal i regularly hit 265lbs with 17% all the time.this time i hope to hit 275lbs with 19%bf then cut that up.its all a practice in progress always getting closer.
 
I didn't bother reading this thread thouroughly bout I do know that the GENETICS of these guys are ridiculous. So yes they take AS but no near as much as you think. they live this life and are way more dedicated than 99% of the bros on here.

GENETICS, GENETICS, GENETICS!
 
I just saw Jay and Gunter guest pose together at the New England BB Championships. These guys are incredibly huge. Not just their bodies. Their whole structure, heads, hands, everything. Gunters hands are as big as three of mine. These guys would be huge men w/o aas. Maybe 50-60 lbs lighter, but still huge. Great genetics for size.

You have to have in mind that Jay Cutler's head has been growing over time. No i'm not joking. If you see older pics of his (and other pros), their heads are nowhere as big.

Some say its the HGH...

But at the same time, what you'll also notice when looking at natural competitions is how SMALL these guy's heads look in comparison to their bodies.

I mean seriously, their heads look like they don't belong to their bodies.
 
here are some heights that I pulled out about a month ago for a friend. Indeed, not many top bb are over 6'. I should have got the weight of them. But you know, they are really heavy.

Darrem Charles 5'8"
Ron Coleman 5'11"
Chris Cormier 5'9"
Porter Cottrell 5'6"
Kevin Levrone 5'9"
Mike Matazzaro 5'10"
Tom Platz 5'8"
Lee Priest 5'4"
Shawn Ray 5'7"
Jay Cutler 5'9"
Milos Sarcev 5'11"
Nasser Elsonbaty 5'11"
Jean-Pierre Fux 5'11"
Craig Titus 5'9"
Flex Wheeler 5'9"
Dorian Yates 5'10"
Dexter Jackson 5'6"
Dennis James 5'8"
Frank Zane 5'9"
Don Youngblood 5'9"
Oleg Zhur 5'5"
Dany Padilla 5'2"
Gunter Schilerkamp 6'
Rolland Kickinger 6'4"
Arnold Schwarzenegger 6'2"

secret for scar tissue ? hard to say. use small needle, go in slowly, inject slowly, massage well the area, use all the possible sites, make go rotation, have somebody (like a nurse) that knows well how to do it and where to do it... they have to take care of themselves.

I put oil on specific spots on my body after my showers, so I can keep my skin hydrated and flexible, so I don't get stretch marks. I use also a skin lotion with E vitamin before going to bed. It helps a lot your skin. The pros must use some of those skin lotions too.

anyway, as long as i don't get as freaky as Paul Dillett, I should be alright.
Tom Platz is not 5 8"
Shawn Ray is like 5 foot 2
Frank Zane is more like 5 6
Gunther Schleprock I thought was way over 6ft

I,m 5 9 and the midgets above I have met
 
I didn't bother reading this thread thouroughly bout I do know that the GENETICS of these guys are ridiculous. So yes they take AS but no near as much as you think. they live this life and are way more dedicated than 99% of the bros on here.

GENETICS, GENETICS, GENETICS!
GHenetics have nothing to do with it, the natural structure of some of these guys is on par with a ballet dancer
 
You actually believe that genetics have nothing to do with these guys size? Your crazy bro!

I think he meant in terms of where they are.

If u were to look at the top 100 BB-ers in the world, their physiques vary SO MUCH. I mean there's probably a 20% variation in end-results.

Natural genetic variation between different humans is like 0.5%.

So if the variations between pros themselves can't be explained with genetics...

Then its retarded to say that someone can't become a pro due to genetics.
 
I think he meant in terms of where they are.

If u were to look at the top 100 BB-ers in the world, their physiques vary SO MUCH. I mean there's probably a 20% variation in end-results.

Natural genetic variation between different humans is like 0.5%.

So if the variations between pros themselves can't be explained with genetics...

Then its retarded to say that someone can't become a pro due to genetics.

I am talking about the top level competitors. Your Jay Cutler,Coleman,Preist, and quiet a few more. There is no way those guys get there with average genetics when they started. If so then you would have different guys every year competing for Mr. Olympia. Like the World Series of Poker......there are a few of the same guys but for he most part it's guys you have never seen or heard of. it's not the same in bodybuilding. These guys have incredible muscle definition that is almost perfect. Your average guy could never be a top level pro w/o tremendous genetics.
 
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