Do you understand you're changing the argument if you talk about TRT or his pic is irrelevant to the matter?
If you come completely off AAS, you will only keep the muscle that your body can genetically hold.
is it true you cannot keep gains while off the gear?
- Thread starter donkey123
- Start date
Do you understand you're changing the argument if you talk about TRT or his pic is irrelevant to the matter?
If you come completely off AAS, you will only keep the muscle that your body can genetically hold.
barnzy7
rome wasnt built in a day
The drugs wont change your ability to hold and mantain muscle mass when youre off. Eventually you will fall back to where your diet and natural test will allow you to stay. It doesnt matter who you are or how hard you try, without drugs youre not going to will your body to hold more mass than it can naturally. That amount will be different for every person, some more some less
Jeez you were massively underweight, that certainly wasnt a "normal" weight for someone 6'2
So when you finally come off you will be around 210 which is pretty much a natty ten year gain for someone 6'2 (all depends on your body composition as well of course)
I compete at 200, natty I weigh 200, totally different body composition though.
barnzy7
rome wasnt built in a day
Youre the one who doesnt understand, youre not coming off or ever going back to be natty. That 200mg/week is not youre natural potential dude. Youre injecting test into yourself that you wouldnt normally have. wheres the confusion?
^^^otherwise why would there be a reason to cruise if you could keep everything you ever gained on a blast?
Matt0071
New member
Banzi u are so fake its unreal man, u relie on other people to back u up man
Like a fuckin pack full of rats on here
Matt, you need to stay out of this thread, its about people keeping gains when they come off gear.
You havent gained anything to lose yet.
Are you an idiot or just not sober? The people who replied in this thread did so bc they wanted. Banzi and I aren't friends. I didn't enter this thread to back him up and you're an idiot for even suggesting it hahaha
gram of tren
so vain
ok well we will all agree to disagree. neither sides of the argument can really prove their case anyway. im a firm believe in homeostasis. if i put on some good muscle and hold it for years and years i think ill hold it when i come off(or more realistically use a trt dose). just like i think that guys who cycle for 12 weeks and put on some muscle lose most of it as soon as they come off because their body doesnt adjust to having the new muscle. and no im not saying you'll look like you do when you're ON, you'll def experience some muscle loss...
Southernfish
New member
Oh buddy tell me about it, lol i can hardly stand to look at old pictures, except for the fact that it shows me what ive accomplished. Lotta hard work has been put it, ive alway had an extremely hard time gaining weigh, but ive got er figured out now, takes a long time.
You cant actually sit there and tell me though that im going to be this weight or that weight when i come off, just because i weight X amount on doesnt mean im gonna end up at X amount when i come off, there isnt a formula its based on. There are a ton of factors to take into consideration.
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It's pretty simple, why do people need a cruise period to retain muscle mass once past genetic potential if not bc of muscle loss (muscle loss meaning back down to what genetics will sustain)? Why use AAS at all if all that's needed is to hold on to your muscle for an undefined amount of time? Your body is only capable of holding on to muscle that's genetically predetermined without the use of steroids. Once you go past it and come off the gear you will go back to what genetics can maintain. It won't happen overnight but it will happen.
Jack Tors
New member
nothing else to add.
gram of tren
so vain
the point of a cruise period is to avoid putting your body through the process of post cycle therapy. you know that month or two long period where there is VERY LITTLE test in your body(if any) until your body can get back to what you hope to be normal levels. that is the most catabolic phase. you avoid that by going from 2500ng/dl test levels to normal 700ng/dl test levels without that complete loss of test levels. your argument here doesnt really make sense.
Your argument doesn't really make sense either. A cruise is to give the body a break from blast-sized doses WHILE maintaining current progress whether it's strength or mass.
I do agree that that month or two before and during PCT is where your lowest test levels are but according to your earlier posts you implied that genetics/hormones aren't involved in maintaining mass and that one can shift their homeostasis significantly enough to change what your body chemistry allows you to maintain by holding onto the mass.
I'm not saying you will go back to 180lbs if you come off the gear. It's impossible to say what weight one can maintain naturally bc it depends on hormones/genes, diet and training, consistency, body composition at a given weight, etc. What I am saying is that AAS use can SLIGHTLY increase your homeostasis point but only by a few pounds. If your body can theoretically maintain 200lbs at 8% than if you come off gear completely at 240lbs at 8% you will drop back down to your natural genetic potential in time. The length of time you maintain the 240lbs on gear does not mean you can maintain it off gear.
Also let's be realistic here. When you end a cycle you have supraphysiological test levels. If running test e or c you'll still have normal levels after around a week of ending the cycle. By the second week (14-18 days) is when exogenous test levels are low enough to warrant beginning pct. So this is only really 1wk of LOW/catabolic as you called it levels. While you're running your PCT, the Nolva/clomid combo is artificially raising your testosterone levels bc that's what they do by stimulating LH release. So for your entire PCT you are around normal testosterone levels anyway. After coming off PCT your levels will drop again until the PCT compounds finish metabolizing. Natural test production can come back at that point or take a while longer. But up until this point you've had maybe a week of 'catabolism'. How much muscle do you expect to lose in this amount of time? It's only really a worry if it takes you an unusually long period of time to recover but this isn't the case for everybody.
skinnypete
Hammer Time
Mostly anything in this life or world, if you stop doing what ever it is, Things go down hill. Stop making money, all you can do is go broke. Stop giving it to the women like she wants, she will leave. You stop aas, you will shrink a bit, you just have to keep your cal intake up to keep the muscle you built. You dont touch a weight for a year after being in the joint for 5 years.. you will lose muscle. If you stop putting gas in your car....you will run out.
I started training at a young age and built a good base with solid muscle naturally. I have good genetics and always gained easily. I did not do my first cycle until like 39 or 40 yrs old. mostly did test,deca, eq and tren never any GH or Insulin.. After long periods of being off cycle (several months) and still training and dieting consistantly I always settled around the same weight as before the cycle. I did not have the same hardness and size but still looked pretty lean. My strength went down a pretty good amount. If you can't lift as heavy and recover as quickly you won't keep the same mass. If you have naturally high levels of test... let's say in the 1500 range and now it drops naturally to say 400 due to age you will not keep the same size no matter what you do. Same thing when coming of the juice. In 35 plus years of training consistantly I have seen it a thousand times that you just can't keep all of the gains after being off. Your natural hormone levels will only support what they can support. If your test levels are 1800 on cycle and 600 naturally when off ...guess what?
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^This. /Thread
What I'm telling you is that you wont be the same weight with the same body fat composition when you stop using.
You will drop down to a weight that you would most likely have attained training natty.
I started lifting weighing 150lbs, when natty after 6 years off any gear I weighed 200lbs, I also competed at 200lbs back in the mid 90s, I competed last year at 200lbs as well , I currently sit at around 225.
I know if I come off now I will eventually drop back to around 200.
Now if you want to prove it to yourself, get yourself down to 5% BF and then come off everything whilst eating maintenance only calories and see where you end up.
