is it true you cannot keep gains while off the gear?

[banzi]

think it all comes down to what foundation you built before u started...

Yep, your natty gains is what you keep.

 

[skinnypete]

Yep, your natty gains is what you keep.

Yup, IF you continue to train and eat.

 

[Mprtz]

Yup, IF you continue to train and eat.

And your HPTA fully recovers.

 

[riprockwell]

Do u understand trt banzi or just completly fucked bro, no I dont come off but I drop down to my reg dose of 200mg/week

You don't understand TRT. I will say that guys on this board like to throw around the words "TRT Dose" quite a bit. I have also seen guys think that 250mg per week as a TRT dose. You can call that a cruise dose but don't put TRT in it. TRT is a therapy that you know that you need to maintain a normal healthy life. Most guys need 100-150mg per week. Some are low responders and need as much as 200-250mg per week but again, this is verified by blood work. Most guys on here don't get blood work, yourself included Matt which is why you are beet red all the time from your rocketed blood pressure. So every time you want to say "TRT", replace it with "Cruise."

 

[Flynman]

I am on Doc. prescribed TRT at 300mgs week and my levels are 752 ...at 200mgs wk (test cyp) my levels were only 375. I definetly see a big difference in size and body composition between the 2 levels.

 

[riprockwell]

I am on Doc. prescribed TRT at 300mgs week and my levels are 752 ...at 200mgs wk (test cyp) my levels were only 375. I definetly see a big difference in size and body composition between the 2 levels.

Exactly. Doc prescribed and at 300mg per week, you are a rare case. lol.

 

[mrricco2012]

I think this confusion comes from when you get off gear you lose some weight (water, maybe some muscle, and gain a little fat during PCT)

 

[gram of tren]

Your argument doesn't really make sense either. A cruise is to give the body a break from blast-sized doses WHILE maintaining current progress whether it's strength or mass.

I do agree that that month or two before and during PCT is where your lowest test levels are but according to your earlier posts you implied that genetics/hormones aren't involved in maintaining mass and that one can shift their homeostasis significantly enough to change what your body chemistry allows you to maintain by holding onto the mass.

I'm not saying you will go back to 180lbs if you come off the gear. It's impossible to say what weight one can maintain naturally bc it depends on hormones/genes, diet and training, consistency, body composition at a given weight, etc. What I am saying is that AAS use can SLIGHTLY increase your homeostasis point but only by a few pounds. If your body can theoretically maintain 200lbs at 8% than if you come off gear completely at 240lbs at 8% you will drop back down to your natural genetic potential in time. The length of time you maintain the 240lbs on gear does not mean you can maintain it off gear.

Also let's be realistic here. When you end a cycle you have supraphysiological test levels. If running test e or c you'll still have normal levels after around a week of ending the cycle. By the second week (14-18 days) is when exogenous test levels are low enough to warrant beginning pct. So this is only really 1wk of LOW/catabolic as you called it levels. While you're running your PCT, the Nolva/clomid combo is artificially raising your testosterone levels bc that's what they do by stimulating LH release. So for your entire PCT you are around normal testosterone levels anyway. After coming off PCT your levels will drop again until the PCT compounds finish metabolizing. Natural test production can come back at that point or take a while longer. But up until this point you've had maybe a week of 'catabolism'. How much muscle do you expect to lose in this amount of time? It's only really a worry if it takes you an unusually long period of time to recover but this isn't the case for everybody.

dre your test level dont go back to natural level as soon as you start pct drugs. it takes time to get test production back up and running and get your levels up, so there is more than one week of extremely low test levels bro. im not on here arguing that you keep all your gains from steroids, you dont. im not denying that. i agree with you guys that you lose most of your gains, but i dont believe you will lose all the muscle you have gained. if my body can support a natural limit of 200lbs at 10%, and after years of steroid use im 240 10%...i believe that coming off you could still maintain a 210ish 10% physique. 10lbs may not seem like much but 10lbs of muscle is a BIG difference.

all these figures we are throwing around dont mean shit. none of this is proven in studies nor could it be so all we can do is speculate. different opinions on the topic and neither of us can prove an argument on this topic.

 

[gram of tren]

and doc prescribed trt at 300mg/week sounds like a wet dream to me.

 

[DreDay187]

dre your test level dont go back to natural level as soon as you start pct drugs. it takes time to get test production back up and running and get your levels up, so there is more than one week of extremely low test levels bro. im not on here arguing that you keep all your gains from steroids, you dont. im not denying that. i agree with you guys that you lose most of your gains, but i dont believe you will lose all the muscle you have gained. if my body can support a natural limit of 200lbs at 10%, and after years of steroid use im 240 10%...i believe that coming off you could still maintain a 210ish 10% physique. 10lbs may not seem like much but 10lbs of muscle is a BIG difference.

all these figures we are throwing around dont mean shit. none of this is proven in studies nor could it be so all we can do is speculate. different opinions on the topic and neither of us can prove an argument on this topic.

This post I'm much more inclined to agree with. I was under the assumption you were saying your keep almost all the gains. This explanation took the confusion out for me. Thanks.

 

[Flynman]

Jealousy rears it's ugly head Gram of test.... but it's true .. 300mgs wk test cyp. Wish I did not have to take it all but without it my levels were as low as 52.

 

[KingBF]

The drugs wont change your ability to hold and mantain muscle mass when youre off. Eventually you will fall back to where your diet and natural test will allow you to stay. It doesnt matter who you are or how hard you try, without drugs youre not going to will your body to hold more mass than it can naturally. That amount will be different for every person, some more some less

I believe this is what banzi was getting at. you just said it much better. and I agree with both of you

 

[carverelli]

genetic plays a big role on how one responds to AAS as well as how much muscle one can keep after natural test levels are back. if your natural test is relatively high I believe you can expect to keep as much as 50% of what you gained, given you keep lifting hard and diet is right.

like others have stated, all this is subjective as it really would be hard to prove

 

[banzi]

I believe this is what banzi was getting at. you just said it much better. and I agree with both of you

just one more post in this thread to sort of explain what I mean,
Take a look at all the retired pros, the ones who maintain similar bodyweight and are in shape are the ones who competed at lighter bodyweight and have not blown up to a totally unnatural 250/260 onstage.
Lee Labrada, Rich Gaspari, Shawn Ray, are three who immediately spring to mind, its also likely that some of theses are still on trt as well.