I've been away for a while and im thinking about running a cylce

[jjowens]

advice

Tury694

Hi, I came across your post - and your suggested cycle. I was wondering if you might give me your opinion on how I'm cycling now and what my intentions are. I'll try to give you info that might help here.

I'm 54 and have been doing 4-12 week cycles of various compounds (all of them except dbol and var) for the last 20 years. I have lapses though, as long as 1 to 2 years of not going to the gym then starting up again.

So, the last time I've run a cycle was 1 year ago. I weigh 185 lbs and have 22 percent body fat. I'm flabby all in the stomach area, and am sensitive to gyno.

Yesterday I started a strict diet, and 6 weeks ago I started up again lifting.

For the past 6 weeks I'be been on:

Test ETH 500mg per week
Test prop 200 mg per week.

My gear is good, and my balls are shrunk, acne etc.,

I train MODERATLEY 3x per week. I say moderatley because I do not have much of a strength gain, and my recovery takes longer.

I have on hand:

the prop and eth, but recently got

anavar - oral liquid
aromasin - oral liquid
10 ml masteron
10 ml npp
10 ml NPP/TEST 100 mg

My goal is to lean out and harden up.

I am thinking of coninuing the test eth 500 mg a week and prop 200 mg per week
and adding
50mg anavar ed
25 mg aromasin eod
NPP 200 mg per week

My issues:
The 10ml masteron seems useless to me becuuse it's only 10 ml and Im too fat.
And, I'm full of jabs, and there is some pip.
I pin glutes and, tris and shoulders.
I could never seem to pin quads, I walk crippled.
Why so little NPP? Running out of space on glutes.

So, having said all that what's your opinion? or critique? Thx in advance.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Thank you... you just validated my point. If AAS (compounds) cause CH (cardiac hypertrophy) can you make the connection that an ester releasing AAS for over 6 months might be more volatile?

Its nothing to argue about bro...unless you have a patent on deca. lol

just want bros o be safe. being naïve is believing aas use is not dangerous.

BTW, I never claimed effect was exclusive to deca ester.

I understand where your coming from in relation to the ester man but if someone is doing multiple cycles, with high doses, every year - can you see how irrelevant the ester becomes?

We could make the argument that all long esters should be avoided, all cycles should be kept below 10 weeks, etc. The point remains that if your determined to cycle yearly, then cardiac hypertrophy will remain a serious risk regardless of the actual compounds used.

And I wasn't arguing lol, just wanted to make sure that people don't misinterpret your post and think that only long esters have this side

 

[Roush]

Welcome JJowens,,
Copy what you just posted and paste it starting a new thread

 

[MattyIce]

I understand where your coming from in relation to the ester man but if someone is doing multiple cycles, with high doses, every year - can you see how irrelevant the ester becomes?

We could make the argument that all long esters should be avoided, all cycles should be kept below 10 weeks, etc. The point remains that if your determined to cycle yearly, then cardiac hypertrophy will remain a serious risk regardless of the actual compounds used.

And I wasn't arguing lol, just wanted to make sure that people don't misinterpret your post and think that only long esters have this side

Its good bro... my point exactly. Suppose you run 12 weeks and pct for 12 weeks then hop on cycle again... the deca from the previous cycle is still active as well as the current compounds. Now suppose you run deca for 14 weeks, pct for 14 weeks (which most people DONT do time on time off in reality) and you run deca again...it could be like you never come off and could possibly be doing irreparable damage to the heart. Its not worth it IMO. Run NPP... its safer and the sides are easier to manage.

As far as I know, the deca ester is the only ester that can stay viable for 6 months.

 

[bigben66]

I understand where your coming from in relation to the ester man but if someone is doing multiple cycles, with high doses, every year - can you see how irrelevant the ester becomes?

We could make the argument that all long esters should be avoided, all cycles should be kept below 10 weeks, etc. The point remains that if your determined to cycle yearly, then cardiac hypertrophy will remain a serious risk regardless of the actual compounds used.

And I wasn't arguing lol, just wanted to make sure that people don't misinterpret your post and think that only long esters have this side

Oh great! Suddenly my TRT protocol of Test Undecanoate doesn't seem so fantastic after all!

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Oh great! Suddenly my TRT protocol of Test Undecanoate doesn't seem so fantastic after all!

Lol - I said HIGH doses Ben, TRT level dosing is fine regardless of the ester used

 

[bigben66]

Lol - I said HIGH doses Ben, TRT level dosing is fine regardless of the ester used

Phew!

 

[clman8585]

Sup guys. Wow this thread blew up quick lol. I see some familiar names good to see Sam people are still around. So yes i am an npp virgin. I've actually never ran deca either. Im liking maybe tprop/npp/mast. No oral. All short esters.

 

[clman8585]

My goal is a recomp. Id like to end up at 230 8/9 %

 

[Roush]

Sup guys. Wow this thread blew up quick lol. I see some familiar names good to see Sam people are still around. So yes i am an npp virgin. I've actually never ran deca either. Im liking maybe tprop/npp/mast. No oral. All short esters.

Good deal, hope the nandrolone gods serve you well..! You will need to get prami or caber to have on hand, or to even run duration of cycle depending on your dosage

 

[clman8585]

I will get all my ai and pi and pct from rui

 

[oldmusclemike]

There are numerous studies showing deca to induce cardiac hypertrophy - all in rats.
The idea that this side effect is exclusive to deca would be false anyway since here is another animal study showing dbol to do the exact same thing:

Oxidative stress and myocardial dysfunction in young rabbits after short term anabolic steroids administration

There are NO human studies PROVING (not just a correlation) this dangerous side effect to somehow be exclusive to deca.
Again, cardiac hypotrophy is NOT exclusive to deca - the studies show it to be due to high dose, constant steroid use in general.

Although most studies suggest only an association between AAS use & cardiac hypertrophy, IMO there is more than enough anecdotal evidence to suggest this is a serious issue.
I've seen a few posts over the last few days of people blaming other substances exclusively for this problem - don't be so naïve

Great post "Mrripped" and article.

OP, absolutely NO offence, however when I read your posts I think that if you are that afraid of the long term effects of just an ester than you may probably not venture in to more usage of aas then you have to other than TRT.

I have seen long term effects of proper and not so proper usage of aas over 30 years if you agree that pretty long term. As the article stated the biggest problems occurred during adolescence. I am 63 years old and started using back in 80' with misusage and after 10 years a more educated approach. I am doing fine. I have done high dosages 2g and 3g cycles years ago. I have done 6 month cycles and standard cycles. I'm not here to say "hey just choose and stab", but the compound is the compound and the delivery of IM esters in MHOP I don't see the difference in long term effects once you are clean again.
My .02

I don't mean to be out of line here OP and I see you've been here before so, just reading and commenting bout what I read

 

[halfwit]

There are numerous studies showing deca to induce cardiac hypertrophy - all in rats.
The idea that this side effect is exclusive to deca would be false anyway since here is another animal study showing dbol to do the exact same thing:

Oxidative stress and myocardial dysfunction in young rabbits after short term anabolic steroids administration

There are NO human studies PROVING (not just a correlation) this dangerous side effect to somehow be exclusive to deca.
Again, cardiac hypotrophy is NOT exclusive to deca - the studies show it to be due to high dose, constant steroid use in general.

Although most studies suggest only an association between AAS use & cardiac hypertrophy, IMO there is more than enough anecdotal evidence to suggest this is a serious issue.
I've seen a few posts over the last few days of people blaming other substances exclusively for this problem - don't be so naïve

This is why I'm gay for you. Even though most studies suggest that the issue is regarding high doses and the impact is on young "immature" hearts, it is hard to ignore the data.

With that said though, decanoate itself has a half-life of about 15 days and total elimination of drugs is typically given as 4 half-lives. I think there's some confusion regarding the difference between elimination times and detection times for a metabolite. If there's 0.0044ng of nandrolone in the body 4 months later, I'm willing to bet that the impact on the body (hypertrophy-wise) is next to nothing.

Now how this impacts the HPTA is a completely different matter. I guess I'm just trying to say that I don't think it really matters in the grand scheme of things which ester is used - they will all carry the same inherent risks.

Of course I'm biased as I really enjoy my long esters, nandrolone decanoate being one of them.

Clman! Glad to see you back! I'd give some thought to masteron with the test as it really helps testosterone to shine and has little sides as long as you're not DHT sensitive.

My .02c

 

[mich29]

alot of great info and thoughts in this thread if your going to run an oral pick up some mr supps tudca to help protect your liver



https://www.mrsupps.com/Products/102/TUDCA/

 

[MattyIce]

This is why I'm gay for you. Even though most studies suggest that the issue is regarding high doses and the impact is on young "immature" hearts, it is hard to ignore the data.

With that said though, decanoate itself has a half-life of about 15 days and total elimination of drugs is typically given as 4 half-lives. I think there's some confusion regarding the difference between elimination times and detection times for a metabolite. If there's 0.0044ng of nandrolone in the body 4 months later, I'm willing to bet that the impact on the body (hypertrophy-wise) is next to nothing.

Now how this impacts the HPTA is a completely different matter. I guess I'm just trying to say that I don't think it really matters in the grand scheme of things which ester is used - they will all carry the same inherent risks.

Of course I'm biased as I really enjoy my long esters, nandrolone decanoate being one of them.

Clman! Glad to see you back! I'd give some thought to masteron with the test as it really helps testosterone to shine and has little sides as long as you're not DHT sensitive.

My .02c

That's cool Halfwit... but what youre willing to bet for your heart and what others are may be differences in opinion. Information is there, deduce what you want from it. I don't know where you got .ooo44ng from, but that could be misleading another person to something that harms themselves.

Lumping all esters into 1 categorical grouping in accordance to side effects is nonsense.

 

[MattyIce]

Sup guys. Wow this thread blew up quick lol. I see some familiar names good to see Sam people are still around. So yes i am an npp virgin. I've actually never ran deca either. Im liking maybe tprop/npp/mast. No oral. All short esters.

Your vendor should have a blend 100/100/100 or will customize one for you on the cheap...test mast and npp are dirt cheap bro. Pin 2cc 3x a week.

 

[halfwit]

That's cool Halfwit... but what youre willing to bet for your heart and what others are may be differences in opinion. Information is there, deduce what you want from it. I don't know where you got .ooo44ng from, but that could be misleading another person to something that harms themselves.

Lumping all esters into 1 categorical grouping in accordance to side effects is nonsense.

You know I have nothing but respect for you, and while the number I gave was purely for arguments sake - I can do the math for you.

The formula used would be exponential decay, which is given as:
P(t) = P0e^r(t). P being the amount of remaining hormone, P0 being the initial value, t being the time period, and r being the half-life decay rate. We know some of the values and can fill in the blanks for the rest to find our variable "r", in order to demonstrate the number I have given.

For this example, let's assume that we're on 800mg of deca, which (assuming similar metabolism as testosterone cleavage), should give blood serum values of around 4000ng/dL. This is not an exact figure, but to provide explanation for my reasoning should be sufficient.

So we use P(t) = 4000, and knowing that decanoate has a half-life of 15 days can solve for r. 2000 = 4000e^-r(15). 2k is half of P0, which occurs at t=15, we plug this in and find that r = 0.0462098120373 = 4.62098120373%.

Now that we have r, we can solve for any other part of the equation. Be it time, initial values, or final value from decay.

So... Let's see what happens at t = 6months (180 days):
X = 4000e^-0.0462(180), X being the amount of hormone at that time. Solving for X gives us 0.978288796202ng/dL. Okay, so my example was off by a couple hundred-billionths of a gram.

Do you really think that less than 1ng/dL is going to provide ANY hypertrophic response? I had 120x that value of testosterone for a decade, and all I did was atrophy and get fat.

Sorry man, but a drug is a drug. All the ester can be is a small modification to the molecules - slowing absorption by requiring the body to cleave it, before recognizing the molecules for what they are.

I'm the last guy on here to jump up and scream, "No ur dumb!", and I always love being shown when I'm wrong, but I can't ignore the math either.

Now this is NOT me saying AAS is without risk, nor am I stating that there aren't things we don't fully understand yet, but I really have a hard time believing that a simple change in the 17th position of a carbon (I think it was the carbon molecule) can make a substance suddenly more dangerous in this application.

Sorry for grammar and sloppy mistakes if any, typing on my phone while on the bike.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

I've already said that the ester doesn't make enough of a difference to matter as much as overall dosing, duration of cycles, consistency of use, etc but still...

Halfwit you beast!!!

 

[Roush]

Sorry for grammar and sloppy mistakes if any, typing on my phone while on the bike.

lol.. Forget the grammar, how about that math,, 'while on the phone on the bike'

 

[bigben66]

Halfwit... a definite tip of the hat for the maths brother... but I really gotta pull you up on your lack of cardio intensity today!

You got stuff on your mind buddy??