Lab Result Trends -- Looking for Advice

[Megatron28]

Just got my latest lab results back. Estradiol is up again. Here's how my numbers are trending. Please note that I was not taking Aromatase inhibitor (AI) when these lab tests were done.


July 9: Test Cyp = 100mg once per week. Total T = 1068 and Estradiol = 115 (taken 1 day after injecting)
Aug 1: Test Cyp = 50 mg twice per week. Total T = 650 and Estradiol = 27 (taken at mid-point of injections)
Aug 27: Test Cyp = 60mg twice per week. Total T = 882 and Estradiol = 97 (taken at mid-point of injections)

Normal Range for Total T = 348-1197
Normal Rang for Estradiol = 8-43


Looks like I have a choice to make. Take the lower amount of Test Cyp (50 mg) and no Aromatase inhibitor (AI), but not get my Total T that high. Or take the higher dose of Test Cyp (60 mg or more) and get higher T levels but then I definitely need Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I would definitely be inclined to do the latter if Aromatase inhibitor (AI) didn't make me so damned tired. I was taking Arimidex before. Any tricks to taking Arimidex without the fatigue? Would taking it at night help for example?

What do you all suggest I do? I am looking for advice. Thanks!

 

[TR90125]

Are you checking any other levels other than test and Estradiol? When you took Adex, what was the dosage and frequency? What were you doing and what were your levels when you FELT your best?

Are you taking any other supplements?

Fatigue can be caused by other factors. Also, Adex tends to hit me (and others) pretty hard, so I take 1/4mg twice weekly and the following week once weekly and so on. My E2 stays between 15 and 20.

I inject 75mg of Test every 84 hours and 600IU's of HCG on the same schedule, same days. Test level was 1130 as tested two weeks ago the day of my next injection, E2 was 14.8 following a twice weekly dosing.

Other supplements

Vitamin D - blood work showed I was vitamin D deficient
DHEA
Amour Thyroid
Pregnanlone
Male Response Supplement
B complex

I get fatigued too, but I think it is more due to a very active lifestyle and just as often due to lack of hydration or lack of eating. I have also recently cut way back on coffee intake and virtually quit acohol, allowing myself up to two glasses of wine when dining out.

 

[300winmag]

Question is what one do you feel the best at? Thats what I would go with. To things to think about is maybe a B12 and ZINC supplement. Estrogen can be spiked by fat so if your overweight try and look into that, also alcohol and lack of sleep can trigger higher E levels

Couple of other options may be do 100mg every 8-10 days, but you would probably have more e problems. or maybe try T at like 25-30 mgs three times a week.

 

[Megatron28]

Are you checking any other levels other than test and Estradiol? When you took Adex, what was the dosage and frequency? What were you doing and what were your levels when you FELT your best?

Are you taking any other supplements?

Fatigue can be caused by other factors. Also, Adex tends to hit me (and others) pretty hard, so I take 1/4mg twice weekly and the following week once weekly and so on. My E2 stays between 15 and 20.

I inject 75mg of Test every 84 hours and 600IU's of HCG on the same schedule, same days. Test level was 1130 as tested two weeks ago the day of my next injection, E2 was 14.8 following a twice weekly dosing.

Other supplements

Vitamin D - blood work showed I was vitamin D deficient
DHEA
Amour Thyroid
Pregnanlone
Male Response Supplement
B complex

I get fatigued too, but I think it is more due to a very active lifestyle and just as often due to lack of hydration or lack of eating. I have also recently cut way back on coffee intake and virtually quit acohol, allowing myself up to two glasses of wine when dining out.

I got the female hormone panel at Labcorps. Everything in the CBC and metabolic panel comes back fine every time. I check cholesterol too and that is fine. This winter I was vitamin D deficient but I have been taking vitamin D supplements since then. LH and FSH are virtually nil as to be expected.

When I tried Arimidex I originally was prescribed .5mg daily. That was killing me. I tried backing it down to .25mg eod and that was still too much.

When did I feel my best? I have only been doing this for four months. But I felt my best about 4 to 6 weeks into treatment. I was injecting 100mg once per week and not taking anything else. But then around 8-10 weeks into it I wasn’t feeling so great anymore. I was getting symptoms of high estrogen. I still feel way better than I did before I began treatment, but I would like to get rid of the high estrogen without being fatigued.

Supplements: I take a daily multi-vitamin and fish oil.

I don’t drink coffee. I do get some caffeine though with sodas, but I try to moderate it. I rarely drink alcohol -- only in social situations. I commonly go two or three months without drinking any alcohol.

Can you elaborate on what your Adex schedule is? You said .25mg twice in week 1. Then .25mg once the following week. Then what do you do? Stay on the .25mg once per week or do you repeat the cycle again. Sorry… just want to make sure. Also, do you take your Adex on the same day as your injections?

 

[TR90125]

Yes. In weeks 1 and 3, I take .25mg Anastrozole (adex) the day after I inject which is every 84 hours. Injections are Sunday morning, Wednesday afternoon. Adex is taken Monday morning and Thursday afternoon. In weeks 2 and 4, I basically skip my second dose of Adex and just take the Monday morning dose for once a week. This is repeated every month.

This is a relatively recent adjustment as .25mg taken every 84 hours had my E2 at 14.4 and 14.8 based on bloodwork taken approxmiately 12 weeks apart. I prefer to run my E2 just a tad higher as it seems to result in better overall erectile functioning.

In the very beginning I too was taking .5mg every day and I felt like I had been hit by a Mack truck. I have also lost quite a bit of body fat and literally quit drinking beer. I still think Adex tends to pack a pretty big punch and as a result, my dosage is quite low.

My 3rd and as of now, final provider was the one that put me initially on Adex .25mg 3x weekly. I have been dropping the dose slowly since then and determined 2x weekly held my E2 right in the 14's consistently but I was not always happy with my erectile strength, which is how I ended up on my current schedule.

I am not sure what the answer is for you, but I think you have at least determined that .5mg is too high of a dose. My humble, non-expert opinion is to stick with a twice weekly dose of test and take .25mg of Adex twice weekly and retest.

Are you taking HCG?

 

[RedLang]

Suggestins above ae great, might be worth playing woth slightly smaller dosing. It may also be the AI.
Have you tried using aromasin? Dosing is normally ED but some people have more success with it than anastrozole.

 

[Megatron28]

Question is what one do you feel the best at? Thats what I would go with. To things to think about is maybe a B12 and ZINC supplement. Estrogen can be spiked by fat so if your overweight try and look into that, also alcohol and lack of sleep can trigger higher E levels

Couple of other options may be do 100mg every 8-10 days, but you would probably have more e problems. or maybe try T at like 25-30 mgs three times a week.

I think I felt better when my Total T was at the higher end of the normal range. But only four months into testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) it is a little hard to say. So if I could keep my T up high and use the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to moderate my estrogen without side effects I would. The problem is that the Arimidex made me feel incredibly tired when I took it. Perhaps I should give the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) another try at the lower dosage/lower frequency and see if I can tolerate that.

I have heard that zinc can have some bad side effects when you are on TRT. I think I remember Det Oak posting something about that not too long ago.

I am overweight. That probably doesn't help my situation, but it isn't something I can change over night either. As for sleep, I get a good 7-8 hours a night and generally wake up feeling pretty refreshed.

 

[Megatron28]

Yes. In weeks 1 and 3, I take .25mg Anastrozole (adex) the day after I inject which is every 84 hours. Injections are Sunday morning, Wednesday afternoon. Adex is taken Monday morning and Thursday afternoon. In weeks 2 and 4, I basically skip my second dose of Adex and just take the Monday morning dose for once a week. This is repeated every month.

This is a relatively recent adjustment as .25mg taken every 84 hours had my E2 at 14.4 and 14.8 based on bloodwork taken approxmiately 12 weeks apart. I prefer to run my E2 just a tad higher as it seems to result in better overall erectile functioning.

In the very beginning I too was taking .5mg every day and I felt like I had been hit by a Mack truck. I have also lost quite a bit of body fat and literally quit drinking beer. I still think Adex tends to pack a pretty big punch and as a result, my dosage is quite low.

My 3rd and as of now, final provider was the one that put me initially on Adex .25mg 3x weekly. I have been dropping the dose slowly since then and determined 2x weekly held my E2 right in the 14's consistently but I was not always happy with my erectile strength, which is how I ended up on my current schedule.

I am not sure what the answer is for you, but I think you have at least determined that .5mg is too high of a dose. My humble, non-expert opinion is to stick with a twice weekly dose of test and take .25mg of Adex twice weekly and retest.

Are you taking HCG?

I am not taking HCG.

I'll give the Adex another try. I'll see if your program works for me. I will try .25mg twice per week taking it 24 hours after my injections. Just curious, what's the rationale on taking it 24 hours after injections instead of at the time of injections?

I think I will stay on the 60mg of Test Cyp twice per week too for now just so I have some consistency. I can't keep changing all the variables.

Another question -- how long should wait before getting another lab test? Is a month long enough? Too long?

 

[Megatron28]

Suggestins above ae great, might be worth playing woth slightly smaller dosing. It may also be the AI.
Have you tried using aromasin? Dosing is normally ED but some people have more success with it than anastrozole.

I have not tried Aromasin. I was thinking the next time I meet with the GP and Endo that I could request it (or something else) if the Arimidex didn't work out. I was hoping originally that going from injecting once per week to twice per week would solve my problem. It definitely appears to help keep E2 down in my case, but not enough to allow me to eliminate the need for an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). It was worth a try though.

 

[Rich_B]

Interesting that the splitting of the weekly dose has an effect on your overall T and E2 levels, I would have thought with the cypionate ester it would make little difference if any.

Also, how does 120mg per week end up giving you considerably less total T than 100mg per week?

 

[Megatron28]

Interesting that the splitting of the weekly dose has an effect on your overall T and E2 levels, I would have thought with the cypionate ester it would make little difference if any.

Also, how does 120mg per week end up giving you considerably less total T than 100mg per week?

When I had the lab tests performed likely has something to do with that. I listed the times since they were not all performed at the same point. My other thought is that ester doesn't guarantee that the test cyp is absorbed at a perfectly even rate. Putting more Test Cyp in may allow for more to be utilized right away despite the ester. But I'm not a drug delivery scientist, so who knows.

 

[zgx]

Just got my latest lab results back. Estradiol is up again. Here's how my numbers are trending. Please note that I was not taking Aromatase inhibitor (AI) when these lab tests were done.


July 9: Test Cyp = 100mg once per week. Total T = 1068 and Estradiol = 115 (taken 1 day after injecting)
Aug 1: Test Cyp = 50 mg twice per week. Total T = 650 and Estradiol = 27 (taken at mid-point of injections)
Aug 27: Test Cyp = 60mg twice per week. Total T = 882 and Estradiol = 97 (taken at mid-point of injections)

Normal Range for Total T = 348-1197
Normal Rang for Estradiol = 8-43


Looks like I have a choice to make. Take the lower amount of Test Cyp (50 mg) and no Aromatase inhibitor (AI), but not get my Total T that high. Or take the higher dose of Test Cyp (60 mg or more) and get higher T levels but then I definitely need Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I would definitely be inclined to do the latter if Aromatase inhibitor (AI) didn't make me so damned tired. I was taking Arimidex before. Any tricks to taking Arimidex without the fatigue? Would taking it at night help for example?

What do you all suggest I do? I am looking for advice. Thanks!

It's crazy how an extra 10mg per shot is giving you such a spike in your E2. I'd try aromasin like it has been suggested which you can take ED or EOD which is the weakest of the common 3 AI's, with letro being the strongest and thus the one you'd take less frequently.

My T was at the 700 range when I pinned 150mg E6D w/o an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and my E2 was in the 70's with a BF of about 18%

I'd say 2-3 weeks is a good enough time to wait before you get another lab.

 

[Megatron28]

The E2 test was Not the sensitive one. So the 27 may not be super accurate. But it should be accurate enough to believe I was in the normal range.

I agree... it is crazy. I was not expecting that result. But I can't guarantee every other variable was held constant. This isn't some fancy lab experiment I am running here.

 

[300winmag]

I think I felt better when my Total T was at the higher end of the normal range. But only four months into testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) it is a little hard to say. So if I could keep my T up high and use the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to moderate my estrogen without side effects I would. The problem is that the Arimidex made me feel incredibly tired when I took it. Perhaps I should give the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) another try at the lower dosage/lower frequency and see if I can tolerate that.

I have heard that zinc can have some bad side effects when you are on TRT. I think I remember Det Oak posting something about that not too long ago.

I am overweight. That probably doesn't help my situation, but it isn't something I can change over night either. As for sleep, I get a good 7-8 hours a night and generally wake up feeling pretty refreshed.

Yeah I dont know about the Zinc. I have seen a lot of guys add it and swear by it, but Im guessing like anything else to much would hurt. Might try the B12. Im kind of in the same boat as you I started this about 4-5 months ago and First was ont injections then gel now back to injections. About Week 4-8 I felt great then dropped off, then upped my dosage from 100mg E7D to 160mg E6D. Started feeling great again. After seeing specialist I was ran through a myraid of test and they wanted to put me back on baseline 100mg again.

Right now waiting on MRI to check pituatary, also Endo has me seeing the URO. After that Im guessing things will change.

Im also over weight and have made a huge attempt to lose it and I think its helping.

 

[Rich_B]

Just on the zinc. I have twice added ZMA into my supplement regieme whilst running 250mg Test/wk and both times I felt it had an almost immediate negative effect on my hormone levels.

 

[zgx]

Zinc and consequently ZMA help with cell reproduction, people making their own T naturally benefit from it, of course Zinc helps you overall but don't expect much from ZMA as far as you T goes with exogenous T. I like ZMA because it helps me sleep well, lol

 

[Megatron28]

Just got my latest lab results back. Estradiol is up again. Here's how my numbers are trending. Please note that I was not taking Aromatase inhibitor (AI) when these lab tests were done.


July 9: Test Cyp = 100mg once per week. Total T = 1068 and Estradiol = 115 (taken 1 day after injecting)
Aug 1: Test Cyp = 50 mg twice per week. Total T = 650 and Estradiol = 27 (taken at mid-point of injections)
Aug 27: Test Cyp = 60mg twice per week. Total T = 882 and Estradiol = 97 (taken at mid-point of injections)

Normal Range for Total T = 348-1197
Normal Rang for Estradiol = 8-43


Looks like I have a choice to make. Take the lower amount of Test Cyp (50 mg) and no Aromatase inhibitor (AI), but not get my Total T that high. Or take the higher dose of Test Cyp (60 mg or more) and get higher T levels but then I definitely need Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I would definitely be inclined to do the latter if Aromatase inhibitor (AI) didn't make me so damned tired. I was taking Arimidex before. Any tricks to taking Arimidex without the fatigue? Would taking it at night help for example?

What do you all suggest I do? I am looking for advice. Thanks!

I got a new lab result last week. I'm doing much better now! I decided to try taking Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (Arimidex) again. .25mg twice per week -- at the same time as when I do my injections of 60mg Test Cyp 2x per week.

My Total T came in at 830. Estradiol was 32.

I was a little surprised to see my T drop slightly now that I am taking Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I thought that with less aromitization that there would be more T. But I was taking an oral medication for athlete's foot (Lamisil) that could have affected my liver according to the doc. And as we all know, this is just a snap shot picture. So I think I will stay on this protocol for a while and see how things go. I am definitely feeling better. More "evened" out and no more gyno symptoms.

Looking at my trends, I have noticed that my Hematocrit and Red Blood Cell counts (I know -- basically same thing) have been increasing. I am still in the normal range, but I am getting close to the top end. Looks like it may be increasing my blood pressure. I am going to have to stay on top of that.

Thanks for all the advice everyone provided. Let me know if you have any other useful suggestions.

 

[NateDEEzy]

Glad to hear you're getting things dialed in ! Was curious how testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) has effected how you feel now that you're getting things dialed in.

 

[Megatron28]

I feel great! All the symptoms I had before diagnosing my low-T problem are gone and now that I am getting dialed in I am not having the swings up and down.

 

[TarheelWill]

Good to hear man. One thing I've come to learn by reading these forums is that it's a process.