Labs after sub-q trt, E2 & hematocrit skyhigh!

[testo66]

Hi all,

I just received my lab results taken one month after switching to my new sub-Q protocol:

62.5mg sub-Q T enanthate 2 X week (total 125mg EW) + 250IU sub-Q HCG 2X week (total 500IU EW).
both injected at the same evening, each of them in a different place in the abdomen.

I'm 23, healthy and trying eating healthy - low carbs/high protein/moderate good fats.
eating 200 grams of cruciferous vegetables every day (broccoli/cleavage).
supplementing daily with fish oil, vit C, multivitamin (no iron), zinc, magnesium, TMG, creatine, MSM, & 5000IU vit-d.
training regularly in the gym.

blood was taken on 10/02/2014, the morning of my scheduled day for the first weekly evening injection:

DHEA SO4 7.78 UMOL/L ( 7.60- 17.40) (*........)
ESTRADIOL(E2) 196.42 PMOL/L ( 0.00- 146.10) (.........)*
FSH < 0.8 ( 1.40- 18.10)
LH < 0.2 ( 1.50- 9.30)
PROLACTIN 178.86 MU/L ( 45.00- 375.00) (...*.....)
TESTOSTERONE 33.31 NMOL/L ( 8.40- 28.70) (.........)*
FREE ANDROGEN INDEX 86.20 ( 30.00- 150.00) (...*.....)
SHBG 41.10 NMOL/L ( 13.00- 71.00) (...*.....)

FREE T4 13.20 PMOL/L ( 9.00- 19.00) (...*.....)
FREE T3 3.00 PMOL/L ( 2.66- 5.70) (*........)
TSH 2.03 UIU/ML ( 0.35- 4.94) (..*......)

WBC 4.60 K/UL ( 4.00- 10.00) (*........)
NEUTROPHILS 2.60 K/UL ( 1.80- 6.60) (.*.......)
NEUTROPHILS % 57.30 % ( 46.00- 68.00) (....*....)
LYMPHOCYTES 1.50 K/UL ( 1.10- 3.50) (.*.......)
LYMPHOCYTES % 32.00 % ( 15.00- 45.00) (....*....)
MONOCYTES 0.40 K/UL ( 0.08- 0.90) (...*.....)
MONOCYTES % 8.80 % ( 2.00- 9.00) (........*)
EOSINOPHILS 0.10 K/UL ( 0.00- 0.60) (.*.......)
EOSINOPHILS % 1.50 % ( 0.00- 6.00) (.*.......)
BASOPHILS 0.00 K/UL ( 0.00- 0.15)
BASOPHILS % 0.40 % ( 0.00- 1.50) (.*.......)
RBC 5.38 MU/L ( 4.30- 6.00) (.....*...)
HEMOGLOBIN 17.30 G/DL ( 13.50- 17.50) (........*)
HEMATOCRIT 49.90 % ( 38.00- 50.00) (........*)
MCV 92.80 FL ( 80.00- 98.00) (.....*...)
MCH 32.10 PG ( 27.00- 33.00) (.......*.)
MCHC 34.60 G/DL ( 32.00- 35.50) (......*..)
PLATELETS 161.00 K/UL ( 150.00- 400.00) (*........)
MPV 7.80 FL ( 6.50- 11.50) (.*.......)
RDW 13.80 % ( 11.00- 16.00) (....*....)

a few questions came up:

1. ESTRADIOL -it is way above normal range! what should i do? i thought that SC injection should lower it.
is Arimidex/anastrozole the only solution? what exactly should I ask my doc, and what is the recommended dosage?

2. I currently have no place to get an AI, would taking dim(diindolylmethane) or Indole-3-carbinol may help?

3. should I consider changing my protocol (HCG dosage/frequency)?​

4. HEMATOCRIT - very high. with androgel I never got those high numbers.
does it mean I must donate blood? is it a regular donation or RBC only donation? I never done this before.
are there other ways of decreasing it?

5. HEMOGLOBIN -very high too. is it correlated with HEMATOCRIT? same questions for it.

6. DHEA SO4 - it is almost bellow range, what does that indicate? should I look into it?

7. how are my T / FREE ANDROGEN INDEX / SHBG values?

8. lastly - what do my TSH/T3/T4 indicate about my thyroid?
from measurements I took for a week I'm getting 36.0 celsius (96.8 fahrenheit) every morning in bed before getting up.
am I iodine deficient? noting again that I'm eating 200 grams of cruciferous vegetables each day (which may interfere with iodine intake).

sorry I have so many questions,
I appreciate any help.

 

[Megatron28]

You estradiol is at 53 pg/ml. That is not "way above normal". And if you got the Regular Assay instead of the Sensitive Assay, it is likely overstated as the regular one is not accurate at the lower levels found in men. You didn't mention any E2 side effects, so I bet you are fine. Get the Sensitive Assay if you are worried about it. And look at adding DIM before going to an AI.

Donate blood to lower your hematocrit/RBCs/hemoglobin (all different ways of looking at basically the same thing). Do this every 56 days for the rest of your life. Exogenous Test increases hematocrit.

Your TSH looks fine.

You are on HCG. I don't think you need to get alarmed about your DHEA.

T, etc all looks good. Is there something you are seeing that has you concerned?

 

[testo66]

thanks for the quick replay,

more info about me:
I have pretty low body fat - around 10%, and I actually drink a lot (water, no alcohol at all ).

thanks for the the info about Hct and Hgb, just another detail - I have pretty low blood pressure (95/60 and less) and pulse (60),
does it matter?

I'm now considering injecting the HCG a day before the T instead of both together (did it for convenience only),
would it make much of a difference E2 wise?

and I'm somewhat unsure if the HCG dose is effective, is there a way to tell?
blood test values or even something with pregnancy test I think I once read...

about high E2 - well I currently don't have high E2 symptoms, but should I worry about gyno? what are the indicators that thing get worse?

should I have obtain a SERM just to have a quick treatment if a gyno will occur, and if so which one is recommended?

many say the optimal E2 is about 22(pg/ml) while mine is 53, but again I understand that T is high too?
what is ratio of E2/T or E2/free T that I should seek?
as for lowering my T dose - as long as that ratio is in place what's bad in having a bit more of both?
any long term health considerations?


from an online calculator I got these values (from SHBG+FAI):
free testosterone - 0.705 nmol/L = %2.12
bioavailable testosterone - 16.5 nmol/L = %49.6

just for my understanding - should I seek lowering SHBG to have more free T?
how do I effect it?

thanks again for the help.

 

[Megatron28]

I think you are over thinking this.

As previously stated, get the Sensitive Estradiol assay. Without that you are just guessing where your E2 is. The general rule of thumb is that the regular assay is 10-20 points overstated. If that is true you are between 33 and 43. That is a good place to be.

You would need a lot more estradiol than you are currently at to get gyno. And you stated you have no symptoms. Again, don't over think this.

You should consult with your doctor about your blood pressure.

If you are getting your HCG from a pharmacy, I wouldn't worry about whether or not it is fake and ineffective. If you were diagnosed with Secondary Hypogonadism the HCG will work. You probably notice that your testicles don't shrink. You could go off the HCG for about 6-12 months and see if they do shrink to confirm that it truly is doing something.

If you develop gyno (diagnosed by a doctor) then he/she can write you a prescription for Raloxifene. But again, your E2 seems pretty good. I don't think you will be getting gyno.

I wouldn't try to monkey with your SHBG. Remember... Everytime you push on one thing you end up pulling on another. The HPTA is complicated.

I don't think you are going to find the ideal TT to E2 ratio. Everyone is different. I personally like my E2 to be on the higher side of the normal range. Other guys like theirs on the lower end of the normal range. You need to figure out what works best for you. Get the Sensitive Assay for Estradiol and see where you are really at. If you feel good and it is in the normal range stick with it. Just let me warn you though. Crashing your E2 is about the worst feeling in the world. I highly recommend you don't let your E2 get too low.

 

[testo66]

thanks again for the quick response,
I'll definitely try to get a sensitive E2 test, but I don't know - what exactly to ask?
I think the only test we have here is the regular blood test.

I recently started taking natural way's "DIM plus" once daily each evening,
and also shifted my HCG shots a day back - a day before my T shot E3D.
hope they both help lowering the E2, I'll do another lab test soon.


I'll appreciate any help about the questions and concerns I wrote in my previous post, mainly -
is my thyroid performing well?

and as for lowering my T dose - as long as a good E2/T ratio is in place what's bad in having a bit more of both?
any long term health considerations?
I do think I benefit from the higher T levels.


thanks again.

 

[Megatron28]

You just say that you want the sensitive assay. Or go to another lab capable of performing it.

High E2 can result in things like: gynecomastia, prostate cancer, cardio vascular problems including heart attack, edema, acne, water retention, bloating, fatigue, emotionalness, anxiety. This is regardless of the T:E2 ratio.

 

[testo66]

megatron, thank you again for the help.

I will do another blood work soon (trying to get a sensitive E2 assay) and i'll be back to update and consult.

any other insights anyone?

 

[testo66]

Hi guys, quick question:

tomorrow morning I'm planning to take another blood test,
and today's evening is my weekly first HCG injection (as tomorrow is the weekly first T injection).

just a reminder - my protocol is:
62.5mg sub-Q T enanthate 2 X week (total 125mg EW)
250IU sub-Q HCG 2X week (total 500IU EW), a day before The T injection day.


should I inject the HCG today or not?

on the one hand injecting it today will obviously affect the blood test tomorrow morning (which is mainly to check the high E2 values I got in the last test),
but on the other hand - not injecting it today meaning that the values I'll get in the test tomorrow will not reflect the real E2 blood values that I normally have with my protocol - and that is what I really want to find out...

I know the recommendation is to take blood test on the day of the weekly T shot - before the shot (and that's what I do),
but what about the HCG?

thanks for the help.

 

[Mprtz]

If the goal of the blood test is an accurate snapshot of your values on your current protocol at trough, then you should follow your protocol with no deviation.