Let them hate, as long as they fear - Tex24's TEST/DBOL first cycle log

[tex24]

Lol my wife grabbed my arm 4 weeks in and said where the hell did that come from?! She didn't like it much, and turned out to be this ridiculous notion I was trying to turn into one of those big ugly bodybuilders and then get aggressive and start beating her or something! Better figure out what she's willing to accept sooner than later dude

She wants me "long and lean" haha. I'll see how the cycle is going and maybe change my diet to more of a cut/recomp towards the end. I was thinking maybe at week 10-11 I'll see where I'm at and possibly extend it two weeks just to cut with T3 more aggressively while still being on to not lose any muscle.

Edit* this isn't for her, I'd like to end this pretty lean as well

 

[tex24]

So time to reevaluate my caloric intake I think. Yes, I calculated my TDEE etc and set my cals to bulk. I wanted to pick that number and see where it got me. However, I did not take into account that I had been eating less than maintenance for a few weeks before my cycle and was staying around the same weight give or take a few lbs (I wasn't able to weigh myself as often as I am now) I was NOT tracking my cals around this time, but it was probably around 2400-2500 a day.

So after tracking my cals over the last week, I have been eating less than I had planned. I have been eating around 2800 cals a day, and have been gaining weight still and I feel much bigger. I've gone from 183lbs to 195lbs over 2.5 weeks (one of which being on dbol).

Now, I need to opinions on this. What do you think is happening here? Do you think my TDEE is actually much lower than I had thought and I can gain on 2800 cals? Or do you think I'm still under, and am just adding water/glycogen and that is accounting for the weight gain? If I AM indeed under, I guess I would be losing fat for the past week or so and it will show once I am off the dbol and drop the water?

I am just afraid of bumping up to the 3300 or so I calculated when I am gaining consistently around 2700-2800. However, I do not want to waste this mass building period on dbol. I am gaining about a lb a day. I feel like my metabolism may be slower than I had originally thought.

Thoughts?

 

[Ocdude]

Well 12lb in 2.5 weeks, you've definitely gained water weight. Dbol is notorious for its bloating effect. So while you've gained some muscle, I'd be hesitant to cut calories based on the present evidence. You'll probably drop 5 pounds or more after you wrap up the dbol.
If you're truly concerned about adding too much too quickly for the gf's sake, I'd have a conversation with her about how bulking/cutting works and what your goals realistically are. Ultimately that's what I did with my chick and told her to a certain degree to get over it LOL. She needed to understand that I had no intention or desire of turning into Arnold, but there was a certain goal in mind that I was working towards and she needs to give me the room and freedom to try.

As for your TDEE, I can't imagine yours would be any lower than 3000 anyway. The determination is really yours, use your eyes as much as the scale in deciding how things are really looking. Water weight is a little deceiving as well.

 

[DreDay187]

Well 12lb in 2.5 weeks, you've definitely gained water weight. Dbol is notorious for its bloating effect. So while you've gained some muscle, I'd be hesitant to cut calories based on the present evidence. You'll probably drop 5 pounds or more after you wrap up the dbol.
If you're truly concerned about adding too much too quickly for the gf's sake, I'd have a conversation with her about how bulking/cutting works and what your goals realistically are. Ultimately that's what I did with my chick and told her to a certain degree to get over it LOL. She needed to understand that I had no intention or desire of turning into Arnold, but there was a certain goal in mind that I was working towards and she needs to give me the room and freedom to try.

As for your TDEE, I can't imagine yours would be any lower than 3000 anyway. The determination is really yours, use your eyes as much as the scale in deciding how things are really looking. Water weight is a little deceiving as well.

I couldn't have said it better than Ocdude ^^^^. You gave us your TDEE in your diet thread as ~2700. I plugged your stats into a calculator and got a rough BMR of 2000cals. So if you frequent the gym 3+days of the week, have a physical job, are generally very active, etc your TDEE is pretty close to that if not closer to 3000. This is maintenance levels per your activity level. To if you're worried about gaining weight to quickly or gaining fat too quickly do around a 15% surplus and adjust after 2wks. So I would start at around 3100cals. Like Oc said dbol is notorious for aromatization and bloat which is what you're experiencing now. Out of those 12lbs you've probably only gained 1-2lbs muscle tops. The rest is added glycogen stores and water. This is where many ppl make mistakes and thinking their gaining too much. They reduce calories and hinder progress. You also have to realize ppl do not get fat overnight. If you're TDEE is actually lower than what you think it still won't lead to any substantial fat gains in a few weeks time. Think big picture here and what you want as an end result. Your plan is sound, you've gotten great advice from 3J in the diet thread and here by Oc. Try to not micro analyze this early into the cycle. Stick to the plan and you'll see results brother.

 

[CptFKNplanet]

Try to not micro analyze this early into the cycle. Stick to the plan and you'll see results brother.

^ THIS.
Ride it out for a month minimum before making changes. And as was said earlier, you should drop some of the bloat when you come off the dbol.

 

[tex24]

Solid advice from everyone, thanks guys.

I'm not really worried about gaining too fast in terms of the GF, I emphasized I am now training each bodypart 2x a week and am eating a lot more clean cals so I can put the weight gain on those factors. I also already explained I will be bulking up then cutting later on, so she understands that too. No real worries there.

In terms of the cals, I'm not afraid I am gaining TOO MUCH, I am just curious as to how I am responding to eating pretty much right at my TDEE every day. If some of this weight gain is indeed muscle, that would mean my TDEE is lower than originally thought and I AM in somewhat of a surplus around 2800 cals. I definitely don't think I am gaining fat, but do see a little bloat, especially in the face and chin area. To be honest I thought I would see more, but maybe I just don't notice it that much.

I think I will stick to the original 3100cals and MAKE SURE I am hitting that instead of only hitting around the 2800 like I said. I'll keep tracking my weight and mirror progress and will make an adjustment in 2 weeks or so. The real adjustments can come a week or two after I drop the dbol and shed that water weight.

Thanks again everyone

 

[DreDay187]

Solid advice from everyone, thanks guys.

I'm not really worried about gaining too fast in terms of the GF, I emphasized I am now training each bodypart 2x a week and am eating a lot more clean cals so I can put the weight gain on those factors. I also already explained I will be bulking up then cutting later on, so she understands that too. No real worries there.

In terms of the cals, I'm not afraid I am gaining TOO MUCH, I am just curious as to how I am responding to eating pretty much right at my TDEE every day. If some of this weight gain is indeed muscle, that would mean my TDEE is lower than originally thought and I AM in somewhat of a surplus around 2800 cals. I definitely don't think I am gaining fat, but do see a little bloat, especially in the face and chin area. To be honest I thought I would see more, but maybe I just don't notice it that much.

I think I will stick to the original 3100cals and MAKE SURE I am hitting that instead of only hitting around the 2800 like I said. I'll keep tracking my weight and mirror progress and will make an adjustment in 2 weeks or so. The real adjustments can come a week or two after I drop the dbol and shed that water weight.

Thanks again everyone

This has to do with what I said before, you don't get fat and muscular overnight. At best, a natty athlete can expect around 1/2lb muscle a week (maybe slightly higher but everything would have to be perfect). Anabolics can speed this up slightly but not by ridiculous amounts. Ppl often confuse lbm and muscle. Muscle is a part of lbm but not the only factor. Lbm includes muscle mass, WATER, connective tissue, organ weight, bone mass etc. so while you've increased your lbm, water is lbm), the chances of you putting on 5lbs of muscle by now are...well none lol (not to bash you just to Give you realistic expectations). The only way your TDEE is going to be significantly lower than 2800 is if you're extremely inactive and/or your metabolism is exceptionally slow. I like the 3100calorie idea. Stick with it for now!

 

[tex24]

Unfortunately I can't lift today. Have an exam from 4-6pm, the gym closes at 7 and I wouldn't have time to go grab all of my stuff. I'll pin today like planned and continue lifting tomorrow. My recovery is awesome now though, I think I might change things up from taking wednesday, saturday and sunday off to doing 2 on, 1 off continuously. I'll see how my body handles it and will add the rest day back in if needed.

This has to do with what I said before, you don't get fat and muscular overnight. At best, a natty athlete can expect around 1/2lb muscle a week (maybe slightly higher but everything would have to be perfect). Anabolics can speed this up slightly but not by ridiculous amounts. Ppl often confuse lbm and muscle. Muscle is a part of lbm but not the only factor. Lbm includes muscle mass, WATER, connective tissue, organ weight, bone mass etc. so while you've increased your lbm, water is lbm), the chances of you putting on 5lbs of muscle by now are...well none lol (not to bash you just to Give you realistic expectations). The only way your TDEE is going to be significantly lower than 2800 is if you're extremely inactive and/or your metabolism is exceptionally slow. I like the 3100calorie idea. Stick with it for now!

Yeah I feel you brother. I'm pretty active, lift 4x a week and walk a good amount throughout the day. I just think my metabolism slowed a bit after eating way less than I thought I was eating for a while. Sticking with 3100 and seeing how it goes!

 

[tex24]

Nevermind!

 

[Ocdude]

Love a good research challenge! And I can almost guarantee we'll find some stuff! But I think it should be moved out of your log so it doesn't get hijacked by the ensuing madness... And trust me there will be many viewpoints on this.
Also, realize that different boards have differing overall philosophies... Not that said other board is correct

 

[tex24]

Cool I'll make a new thread over in the main forum!

 

[DreDay187]

I agree it'll derail your log so make a new thread. Also I think most of what you're going to find will be case studies, I wouldn't think there are many studies conducted on you get kids unless its testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) related but I may be wrong here.

 

[Ocdude]

Sounds good! I'd edit it out of this thread too

 

[tex24]

Was gonna pin quad but I was short on time and didn't want to have to watch a video on it so I did glutes again. Did it with one hand this time and damn that didn't go smoothly haha moved around a lot and scratched the skin when I pulled out. PIP should be interesting.

Extremely low on cals so far today due to studying in the library. Might east some fast food to get the cals in.....afraid of the sodium bloat though

 

[tex24]

Shitty workout today, at least in terms of dips. Was really trying to get low and hit my lower chest hard (my weak point chest wise IMO). Also I weighed in at 191lbs (-4lbs from tuesday). Potential reasons why: was on adderall all day yesterday and the day before studying for a big exam, and I only ate around 1500 cals yesterday for the same reason. Threw in a couple extra cross over sets just because, and I probably should have started at 55-60lbs instead of 50. Also I've decided to split my aromasin dose into 6.5mg twice daily if I can, otherwise 12.5mg at once will do if I am too busy.

Workout
Dips - +55x2x6, +45x7
Incline DB - 75x3x8
Cable crossovers - 50x7x12, 60x12
Lat raises - 25x3x12
Tri PD - 150x3x15, 140x2x15

Gonna need to start doing tri PDs on the lat PD machine since 150lbs was the whole stack haha. Also, small fit blonde girl in spandex working out near me the whole time....lawd. Test really made me distracted haha

 

[tex24]

Had to skip a workout last week unfortunately. Eating has been solid and I was 196 today. First time hitting 90lb db presses as well, felt good and I was feeling big

workout
Inc db 90x2x8,5
Dec db 55x3x12
Crossovers 45x6x12
Upright row 75x3x12
Skulls 65x15,4x12

Thinking about bumping the dbol to 60 from 40 for the last two weeks. Thoughts? Will it be worth it? No sides at all from 40 aside from a little bloat and extremely brief itching around my nips if I don't take my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) until way after my dbol.

 

[tex24]

KILLED IT once again in the gym today. Went for the +20 on deads and +10 on db row from last workout. Weighed in at 197.5lbs. Changed my dbol dosage today to 60mg ED from 40mg ED. I am now taking 40mg an hour pre-workout and the other 20mg 5-8 hours later in the day. I believe it may be underdosed and am not getting significant sides aside from shin/delt pumps and some bloat.

Saw a friend I haven't seen in a few weeks at the end of my workout and he was like "damn when did you get so big?". Saw my mom today for the first time since I started dbol and she said I was looking big. Felt good

My grip strength seems to be holding me back on these workouts. Does anyone use straps? I don't want to fall into the habit of using them and not developing grip/forearm strength. Also I feel my back workouts are progressing much faster than my chest workouts. As I said before chest development is a key point in this cycle so I hope my workouts improve in that regard, although they are already improving pretty significantly anyways

Workout
Deads - 345x3x3
DB row - 115x4x6
Lat pd - 240x2x8, 230x2x8
T-bar row - 55x3x12
DB curl - 30x3x15

 

[tex24]

Girlfriend is really saying she doesn't want me getting any bigger or she'll be "grossed out"....I'M NOT EVEN BIG!!!! She says no "professional adults" are big and it seems like I'm some pimply faced teen who lives in the gym. I don't have acne nor am I a teenager!!!! WHAT THE FUCK MAN

I told her I'd be cutting down to be lean but she's just being weird about it. I'm really hoping that dropping the dbol water will give me that leaner look without all the bloat. But still COME ON, I will do whatever I want with my physique

 

[SamSport]

Girlfriend is really saying she doesn't want me getting any bigger or she'll be "grossed out"....I'M NOT EVEN BIG!!!! She says no "professional adults" are big and it seems like I'm some pimply faced teen who lives in the gym. I don't have acne nor am I a teenager!!!! WHAT THE FUCK MAN

I told her I'd be cutting down to be lean but she's just being weird about it. I'm really hoping that dropping the dbol water will give me that leaner look without all the bloat. But still COME ON, I will do whatever I want with my physique

you said it, do whatever you want with your physique

 

[tex24]

you said it, do whatever you want with your physique

Yeah I know, it just sucks thinking she will be less sexually attracted to me if I am bigger. I just don't see how she would be if I was 6'1" around 200-205lbs ripped though haha. She likes "long and lean"

Either way, I think the last 3 or so weeks of this cycle I am going to be cutting if I am happy with how much mass I have added and also depending on what I look like after I drop the dbol bloat. OR I will extend it to 14-15 weeks and bulk the original 12 weeks, then use weeks 13-14/15 to lean out with T3 since you can't really use it without AAS anyways

Anyways, Have to miss/postpone my second two workouts this week due to being out of town unexpectedly. Kinda sucks but instead of lifting Th and Fri I will push it to Sat/Sun or just Sunday to make up for it before next week.

Back pumps are getting worse, I'll have to see if I still have some taurine laying around