Letro reversal gyno update* Ok as of typing this i am currently on day 6 of letr

[Mikeyblayze]

Ok as of typing this i am currently on day 6 of letrozole reversal protocol 2.5mg e/d To Reverse non hard tissue (no lump) nipple sticking out/puffy nipple/fat buildup in chest type gyno ON THE LEFT SIDE OF MY CHEST ONLY....Also i went ahead and started my cycle of test prop 300 mg/eod today (hit a vein on my way in too, nasty i know)..I know my estrogen is crashed to shyt cuz yesterday i felt horrible AF. Any way the fat in my left chest is now essentially non existent AND is perfectly symetrical with the fat on my right side (which is also noexistent) . GREAT! the only thing wrong now is my nipple is still sticking out noticeable farther than it should.... like the rest of my chest has receded back and is straight except that part. will this continue to get better?.... Also should i double my dose 5 mg;s of letro since im running basically a gram of test per week? Thanks!

 

[JimiThing]

Ok as of typing this i am currently on day 6 of letrozole reversal protocol 2.5mg e/d To Reverse non hard tissue (no lump) nipple sticking out/puffy nipple/fat buildup in chest type gyno ON THE LEFT SIDE OF MY CHEST ONLY....Also i went ahead and started my cycle of test prop 300 mg/eod today (hit a vein on my way in too, nasty i know)..I know my estrogen is crashed to shyt cuz yesterday i felt horrible AF. Any way the fat in my left chest is now essentially non existent AND is perfectly symetrical with the fat on my right side (which is also noexistent) . GREAT! the only thing wrong now is my nipple is still sticking out noticeable farther than it should.... like the rest of my chest has receded back and is straight except that part. will this continue to get better?.... Also should i double my dose 5 mg;s of letro since im running basically a gram of test per week? Thanks!

Have you considered just using letro to manage your e2 on cycle (or stane or dex) and using raloxifene to treat your gyno? Im not a fan of crushing your estrogen to treat gyno. I prefer managing your estrogen and treating gyno with a serm, ralox is my frst choice, tamox my second.

 

[Mikeyblayze]

well my estrogen is crushed and i need it to stay that way and im wondering if i need to up to 5 mg's of letro on 1 gram of test per week for estro to stay crushed or is 2.5mg's enough?

 

[Chicago712]

why would you want your estro to be crashed?!?

 

[PrinceDianabol]

God no. Even 2.5mg is way too much. Your e2 will already be crushed. If I were you id drop the dose back to 50-100mcg eod, or better yet get a better AI like arimidex or aromasin and use Raloxifen to treat gyno. Gyno takes months to reverse, its incredibly unhealthy to have no e2 for that long.

 

[BreadTree]

What would be the minimum effective dosage of Letrozole to treat pre-existing gynecomastia with??

I got gyno when I was 17, from using prohormones(over a decade ago). Initially, I noticed a small rubber-like mass behind the nipple in chest. Over time it got larger, but it wasn't a hard mass, just life soft fat. It's not at manboob level, just puffy nipple because of the enlarged gland. Anyways, based on everything I read....is that really you can't get rid of it without surgery. However, I would be content with reducing it by even 1/3 or 1/2, because if that happened it wouldn't even be noticeable.

It seems the only protocol people get fairly consistent results with is Letro(that I've read about). I also know, the gyno isn't just fat, it's enlarged gland that's been there for years it won't just disappear. Just hoping for something to shrink it a bit.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

I don't know.. Somewhere around the 50-100mcg mark. Letro isn't a good idea because its so easy to tank your e2. And it usually comes in 1-2.5mg/ml, which makes it hard to get an accurate dosing.

Like I said before you'd be better off with aromasin or arimidex. Are you on cycle? If your not then you don't need an AI at all. You just need Raloxifen. Ralox is the most effective and healthiest way to treat gyno. If your off cycle, drop the letro completely and just run ralox at 60mg daily for two weeks, then 40mg daily until gyno is gone. If your on cycle, same protocol just add arimidex or aromasin at a low dose.

And you can definetly reduce it almost completely...

Whats your bodyfat %?

 

[BreadTree]

My body fat was calipired at 12.7% or something about 4 months ago. I didn't know Raloxifene was considered more effective. But, then again I hadn't read up on this subject in quite a while.

It just seems difficult to believe, I would be happy just say making it go down by a 3rd.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

My body fat was calipired at 12.7% or something about 4 months ago. I didn't know Raloxifene was considered more effective. But, then again I hadn't read up on this subject in quite a while.

It just seems difficult to believe, I would be happy just say making it go down by a 3rd.

Okay... I'll try and break it down a bit for ya.

Gyno is caused by excess estrogen (e2 in particular) reaching the breast tissue... you probably know estrogen floats around your blood stream. As the blood flows through, the estrogen will bind to the estrogen receptors in the breast tissue. Now there are two ways to stop estrogen from reaching those receptors...

option a) This is what your doing. By eliminating ALL the estrogen in your blood stream you are preventing any estrogen from reaching the receptors. This is why using an AI like letro or arimidex will reverse gyno... because you are starving the breast tissue of estrogen which it needs to grow. However, having low or no estrogen is very unhealthy.. and can produce a whole bunch of side effects like lethargy, erectile dysfunction, aching and dry joints.. the list goes on and on.

OR option b) Using a SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator.) Selective meaning it "selects" or goes after the receptors in the breast tissue and the Pituitary rather than other ERs around the body. SERMs like Clomid, Tamoxifen (nolva) and Raloxifen all do the same thing with minor differences between them. Nolva and Ralox both have a higher affinity for the receptors in the breast tissue rather than the Pituitary. Clomid and torem on the other hand, have a higher affinity for the pituitary and less so for the breast tissue.
SERMs bind to these receptors and block estrogen from binding to it. Thereby starving the breast tissue of estrogen... leading to gyno reversal. And it does this without tanking your e2, as it is still free to float around the body.


This is why you see people recommend using an AI (like letro, arimidex or aromasin) to MANAGE estrogen. Use them to keep estro within healthy ranges.. not too high and not too low. Both of these produce bad side effects and are quite unhealthy for long periods. If you have gyno then your estro is probably too high... so use a very small dose if off cycle to lower it slightly FOR HEALTH REASONS and rely on the SERMs to reverse your gyno.

It's much healthier... And you won't lose gains, feel like shit, etc... Also any side effects you get from tanking your estro will last a while... sometimes it can take a fair while for your estro to recover.

Does that make more sense to you now? If you have any questions feel free to ask..,

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Oh and Raloxifen is superior to all other SERMs.... It has the highest affinity for the breast tissue

 

[BreadTree]

Okay... I'll try and break it down a bit for ya.

Gyno is caused by excess estrogen (e2 in particular) reaching the breast tissue... you probably know estrogen floats around your blood stream. As the blood flows through, the estrogen will bind to the estrogen receptors in the breast tissue. Now there are two ways to stop estrogen from reaching those receptors...

option a) This is what your doing. By eliminating ALL the estrogen in your blood stream you are preventing any estrogen from reaching the receptors. This is why using an AI like letro or arimidex will reverse gyno... because you are starving the breast tissue of estrogen which it needs to grow. However, having low or no estrogen is very unhealthy.. and can produce a whole bunch of side effects like lethargy, erectile dysfunction, aching and dry joints.. the list goes on and on.

OR option b) Using a SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator.) Selective meaning it "selects" or goes after the receptors in the breast tissue and the Pituitary rather than other ERs around the body. SERMs like Clomid, Tamoxifen (nolva) and Raloxifen all do the same thing with minor differences between them. Nolva and Ralox both have a higher affinity for the receptors in the breast tissue rather than the Pituitary. Clomid and torem on the other hand, have a higher affinity for the pituitary and less so for the breast tissue.
SERMs bind to these receptors and block estrogen from binding to it. Thereby starving the breast tissue of estrogen... leading to gyno reversal. And it does this without tanking your e2, as it is still free to float around the body.


This is why you see people recommend using an AI (like letro, arimidex or aromasin) to MANAGE estrogen. Use them to keep estro within healthy ranges.. not too high and not too low. Both of these produce bad side effects and are quite unhealthy for long periods. If you have gyno then your estro is probably too high... so use a very small dose if off cycle to lower it slightly FOR HEALTH REASONS and rely on the SERMs to reverse your gyno.

It's much healthier... And you won't lose gains, feel like shit, etc... Also any side effects you get from tanking your estro will last a while... sometimes it can take a fair while for your estro to recover.

Does that make more sense to you now? If you have any questions feel free to ask..,

Yes, it does make sense, thanks for the breakdown.

In the past I tried Nolvadex(liquid from a research site). I'm not sure for how long, but I didn't notice any reduction in gyno. Also, I do think I probably have high estrogen levels, because I get edema in my calves & feet, but nowhere else. I have some Letrozole & took up to 2.5 mgs a day & didn't notice any effect so I stopped within a week. I'm just assuming that the Letro is bunk.

Maybe my new endocrinologist will prescribe some. My old endo was from the "Testosterone is bad" school of thought(I.e it causes strokes, cancer, heart disease), he was kind of creepy & just had a general dislike of me for being knowledgable. He lowered my dose without providing a reason & kept me in the dark about bloodwork involving test. Also, he thought weekly injections of testosterone were abnormal & reccomended 2-4 weeks. I went to medical transcripts got some records & my test levels were below 400ng/dl when he decided to lower the dose(I didnt choose the guy, got stuck with him when the old endo left).

He even said he doesn't consider treating female patients with hormonal issues if it involves using a hormone(unless it's diabetes induced Obesity which is his specialty) because of all the damaging effects of hormones like cancer.

I finally got the balls to get a new one who luckily turned out to be the department head. She asked me questions about the other doctor. Then upped the dose of test by 50% w/o me asking and understands the subject alot better. I sent her an email about trying a SERM. I'm a lot happier not having to get my ass fondled by that wierd, negative, testosterone hating...guy. I hope he gets let go before he screws up more patients.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Yes, it does make sense, thanks for the breakdown.

In the past I tried Nolvadex(liquid from a research site). I'm not sure for how long, but I didn't notice any reduction in gyno. Also, I do think I probably have high estrogen levels, because I get edema in my calves & feet, but nowhere else. I have some Letrozole & took up to 2.5 mgs a day & didn't notice any effect so I stopped within a week. I'm just assuming that the Letro is bunk.

Maybe my new endocrinologist will prescribe some. My old endo was from the "Testosterone is bad" school of thought(I.e it causes strokes, cancer, heart disease), he was kind of creepy & just had a general dislike of me for being knowledgable. He lowered my dose without providing a reason & kept me in the dark about bloodwork involving test. Also, he thought weekly injections of testosterone were abnormal & reccomended 2-4 weeks. I went to medical transcripts got some records & my test levels were below 400ng/dl when he decided to lower the dose(I didnt choose the guy, got stuck with him when the old endo left).

He even said he doesn't consider treating female patients with hormonal issues if it involves using a hormone(unless it's diabetes induced Obesity which is his specialty) because of all the damaging effects of hormones like cancer.

I finally got the balls to get a new one who luckily turned out to be the department head. She asked me questions about the other doctor. Then upped the dose of test by 50% w/o me asking and understands the subject alot better. I sent her an email about trying a SERM. I'm a lot happier not having to get my ass fondled by that wierd, negative, testosterone hating...guy. I hope he gets let go before he screws up more patients.

Yeah christ, avoid that fuckhead. Unfortunately there are a lot of medical professionals that just aren't as up to date on test usage as we are. And a lot of them don't like it. I'm glad you found a decent endo. Yeah would be great if you could get her to prescribe you ralox or tamoxifen. If she seems open enough maybe bring her some studies showing the effectiveness of raloxifen as gyno treatment. She may already be aware though if she keeps up to date.

You should know if your letro is bunk or not... If you didnt lose any weight, then it was bunk. You should drop a good couple kilos of water when you crash e2 like that. More than likely you will feel like shit too.

Is your new endo getting regular bloodwork done on you? If so post it up... Would be good to see where your e2 is sitting.

 

[BreadTree]

Yeah christ, avoid that fuckhead. Unfortunately there are a lot of medical professionals that just aren't as up to date on test usage as we are. And a lot of them don't like it. I'm glad you found a decent endo. Yeah would be great if you could get her to prescribe you ralox or tamoxifen. If she seems open enough maybe bring her some studies showing the effectiveness of raloxifen as gyno treatment. She may already be aware though if she keeps up to date.

You should know if your letro is bunk or not... If you didnt lose any weight, then it was bunk. You should drop a good couple kilos of water when you crash e2 like that. More than likely you will feel like shit too.

Is your new endo getting regular bloodwork done on you? If so post it up... Would be good to see where your e2 is sitting.

That would take awhile, but possible. She ordered tests for Test, Free Test, Igf1(I told her that I take this peptide on & off)TSH, Prolactin & basic ********* panel.

My prolactin was elevated previously, but I'm not sure if it's due to previous deca use or because I take risperidone prn(I told her abt risperidone & suboxone which can both raise prolactin, by nt that I've used deca before) I didn't tell her specifics about having used AAS history yet, just what I'm currently doing.

She seems better & would prefer to tell her everything, but after the old endo I'm not sure what to do. I'm concerned it could go on my record & if I ever change insurance, it could be interpreted as drug abuse. Unlike the old endo, I want to tell her everything, but concerned. Especially, since my old Endo works in the department & after the 1st appointment I wasn't comfortable telling him anything. He seemed like an inquisitor. Basically it seems ok, but it would still be hard for me to say" I'm going to cycle 500mgs of test, what do you think?". If it wasn't for the permanent record, I prefer to be open abt everything, but I think other docs can see doctors notes in that system & it only takes 1 shitty doctor to make your world FUBAR, if you have health issues

 

[PrinceDianabol]

That would take awhile, but possible. She ordered tests for Test, Free Test, Igf1(I told her that I take this peptide on & off)TSH, Prolactin & basic ********* panel.

My prolactin was elevated previously, but I'm not sure if it's due to previous deca use or because I take risperidone prn(I told her abt risperidone & suboxone which can both raise prolactin, by nt that I've used deca before) I didn't tell her specifics about having used AAS history yet, just what I'm currently doing.

She seems better & would prefer to tell her everything, but after the old endo I'm not sure what to do. I'm concerned it could go on my record & if I ever change insurance, it could be interpreted as drug abuse. Unlike the old endo, I want to tell her everything, but concerned. Especially, since my old Endo works in the department & after the 1st appointment I wasn't comfortable telling him anything. He seemed like an inquisitor. Basically it seems ok, but it would still be hard for me to say" I'm going to cycle 500mgs of test, what do you think?". If it wasn't for the permanent record, I prefer to be open abt everything, but I think other docs can see doctors notes in that system & it only takes 1 shitty doctor to make your world FUBAR, if you have health issues

Yeah I wouldn't tell them you cycle. If your in the states it will go on your record. Theres no need to tell her anyway, once your TRT is dialed in you can do it between visitsz