Low Volume, High(er) Frequency

[iron addict]

Many of you are hitting bodyparts/lifts once a week because that is all you can recover from.
Many people with so-so recovery would like to train more frequently to maximize stimulous/response cycles. Problem is, when they attempt to increase the frequency, they outstrip their ability to recover. One solution is to keep the volume quite low--at least until work capacity comes up. Here is an example of a format I have used with some people:

Monday
Upper back/legs ME
Chin-up 4 x 6
Barbell Curl 3 x 8
Squat or deadlift variation (switch every week) 1 x 1

Wed
Chest/Shoulders/Tricep ME
Bench Press Variation (switch every week) 1 x 1
Incline DB Bench 3 x 10
Lateral Raise 4 x 8

Fri
Upper back/legs Rep Work
T-Bar Row 5 x 5
Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Box Squat 2 x 10 Bicep 6 sets

Sun
Chest/Shoulders/Tricep Rep Work
Dumbbell Bench 4 x 10
Dip 3 x 8
Military press 4 x 6

All max-effort lifts change every week, repetition work lifts change every four weeks, or as needed.


Iron Addict

 

[silver_shadow]

Many of you are hitting bodyparts/lifts once a week because that is all you can recover from.

a bodypart once a week is far from ideal. in fact, it's TOO MUCH rest bordering on deconditioning every week. HST theories specify 36 hrs as a reasonable recovery time while louie simmons specifies 72 hrs for his layout. either way, hitting a body part a min of 2x per wk should be min - unfortunately the body part once a wk which is not based on any sound weightlifting principles has become the more common approach for bbers and enthusiasts of today - the refrain being that 2 or more times per week is overtraining or only for plers...
and yet, some oly lifters (excluding the super heavies) have physiques that are far better than 99% of body part 1x per wk lifters... this given that oly lifters lift almost every day. you'd think ppl would open their eyes but it just doesn't happen - probly because M&F and Flex have made ppl believe that bodybuilding is some voodoo thing. it also doesn't help when most of the "pros" training moronically themselves (nowadays), but are blessed with good genetics and large amounts of AAS.

 

[silver_shadow]

oh BTW, IA, that's an elegant routine

 

[GTC]

Thanks IA.

On Fridays workout, what do you mean where you've put "bicep 6 sets" next to box squat?

 

[roccodart440]

It may be possibl;e with the right amount of volume to hit a boody bpart 2 times per week but the effectivness of such workouts is questionabe. I bench twce per week with 99% of the time is done by doing a light day and a heavy day and also varying excersizes. It borders overtraining and i've ended up overtrained several times. There is no way I could do the same thing for all of my main bodyparts. Overtraining would surley occur. Injury would also be likely.

 

[pullinbig]

a bodypart once a week is far from ideal. in fact, it's TOO MUCH rest bordering on deconditioning every week. HST theories specify 36 hrs as a reasonable recovery time while louie simmons specifies 72 hrs for his layout. either way, hitting a body part a min of 2x per wk should be min - unfortunately the body part once a wk which is not based on any sound weightlifting principles has become the more common approach for bbers and enthusiasts of today - the refrain being that 2 or more times per week is overtraining or only for plers...
and yet, some oly lifters (excluding the super heavies) have physiques that are far better than 99% of body part 1x per wk lifters... this given that oly lifters lift almost every day. you'd think ppl would open their eyes but it just doesn't happen - probly because M&F and Flex have made ppl believe that bodybuilding is some voodoo thing. it also doesn't help when most of the "pros" training moronically themselves (nowadays), but are blessed with good genetics and large amounts of AAS.

the oly lifters i trained with didnt lift (almost) everyday. and normally they just went in and hit a few singles and left. their training is based on explosive movements and mainly for back and legs. squats and pulls.

36 hours is not enough time to recoup if you pounding away. 72 hours is border line, juiced or clean. i do much better when i have 96 hours.

silver how about posting up your journal in the journal section so we can see what you do and what kinda #s you hitting. reading someones training log is far more beneficial than stuff randomly posted in the training section. most of the guys in this section post their logs up for all to see. you may be a 300lber benching 600 raw or you may weigh 185 and only pull 225. we dont know til you post it up.

 

[silver_shadow]

the oly lifters i trained with didnt lift (almost) everyday. and normally they just went in and hit a few singles and left. their training is based on explosive movements and mainly for back and legs. squats and pulls.

36 hours is not enough time to recoup if you pounding away. 72 hours is border line, juiced or clean. i do much better when i have 96 hours.

silver how about posting up your journal in the journal section so we can see what you do and what kinda #s you hitting. reading someones training log is far more beneficial than stuff randomly posted in the training section. most of the guys in this section post their logs up for all to see. you may be a 300lber benching 600 raw or you may weigh 185 and only pull 225. we dont know til you post it up.

i see what you mean about the training log... but just curious - are you suggesting that some of my training theory may not be too sound so that only when i actually post up the numbers/routine will it seem convincing?
about 96 hrs when pounding away - do you mean that you will pound the same compound lift after only 96 hrs (won't touch it till then) or will there be some speed work in between?

 

[pullinbig]

i see what you mean about the training log... but just curious - are you suggesting that some of my training theory may not be too sound so that only when i actually post up the numbers/routine will it seem convincing?
about 96 hrs when pounding away - do you mean that you will pound the same compound lift after only 96 hrs (won't touch it till then) or will there be some speed work in between?

no i just asked you to post your journal. its the most effective way to help folks on this board. thats why i post mine and have the guys i train online to post theirs. plus it lends itself to making your advice more credible if we know who you are and what you do in the gym from week to week. you may be a world champ or just a gym rat. either is fine but too many guys come on here that rarely go to the gym. they just regurgitate what the read somewhere. i spend more time in that section than any other on this board. i read all the jouranls even thoug i dont post in all of them. theres some great stuff in there.

i hit similar muscle groups after 72 hours only because there are only 7 days per week. that means i get 72 hours rest and 96 hours rest. i squat on monday and pull on thursday. i bench low end training on tuesday and top end on friday. i pretty much go heavy (heavy for me) all the time just vary rep and set ranges depending on where im at in my training cycle.

i rarely do speed work. it beats me up too bad.

 

[roccodart440]

i rarely do speed work. it beats me up too bad.

Crawford said the same thing to me and said he has droped t from his routine. What about speed work beats you up? I always feel good after doing it?

I did find though that I had to drop my percentages from 60-70% to 40-45 % to really get the effect I was looking for.

60-70% is from WSBB. I'm now using the kennelly method.

 

[ManOfMuscle]

It may be possibl;e with the right amount of volume to hit a boody bpart 2 times per week but the effectivness of such workouts is questionabe. I bench twce per week with 99% of the time is done by doing a light day and a heavy day and also varying excersizes. It borders overtraining and i've ended up overtrained several times. There is no way I could do the same thing for all of my main bodyparts. Overtraining would surley occur. Injury would also be likely.

I disagree with all of this. You can do every bodypart twice a week you just have to make sure your volume is in check, food is plentiful, and you are letting every muscle recover fully.

 

[roccodart440]

I disagree with all of this. You can do every bodypart twice a week you just have to make sure your volume is in check, food is plentiful, and you are letting every muscle recover fully.

I agree with everything your saying. I just question that if you reduce the volume to a level where this is possibl;e are you really getting the max potential possible?

 

[ManOfMuscle]

I agree with everything your saying. I just question that if you reduce the volume to a level where this is possibl;e are you really getting the max potential possible?

Sure just look at your total volume per week as a whole unit and divide it by 2. Or go 2/3 volume 1 work out 1/3 the next. I know for a fact I get away with much greater intensity hitting eveyrthing twice per week than I did on a "bodypart" split.

 

[silver_shadow]

no i just asked you to post your journal. its the most effective way to help folks on this board. thats why i post mine and have the guys i train online to post theirs. plus it lends itself to making your advice more credible if we know who you are and what you do in the gym from week to week. you may be a world champ or just a gym rat. either is fine but too many guys come on here that rarely go to the gym. they just regurgitate what the read somewhere. i spend more time in that section than any other on this board. i read all the jouranls even thoug i dont post in all of them. theres some great stuff in there.

i hit similar muscle groups after 72 hours only because there are only 7 days per week. that means i get 72 hours rest and 96 hours rest. i squat on monday and pull on thursday. i bench low end training on tuesday and top end on friday. i pretty much go heavy (heavy for me) all the time just vary rep and set ranges depending on where im at in my training cycle.

i rarely do speed work. it beats me up too bad.

yea, i'd like to get a journal going. right now i'm on the comeback trail (since september after many mths away from the gym, sickness, lots of work and lots of strength and weight loss). actually for all practical purposes i had to start off from scratch and things are still not great with lots of personal problems which refuse to go away. currently my stats are age 26, ht 5ft10, wt 227, squat 405, dead 380 flat bench 290, all raw (yea i know, dead is less than squat, raw!). right now i know those numbers are not halfway impressive for my weight but i'm working hard and hope to have some decent numbers up in some time. anyway, i probably should get a journal up sometime.
anyway, that was a thread hijack... back to the point about higher frequency. here's a routine which my own current high freq routine borrows a bit from. it's also what alot of regular posters on elitefitness have been following with alot of success. there are 2 versions - one for intermediate lifters and the other for advanced lifters. some of you may like this:
http://www.****************/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

 

[pullinbig]

Crawford said the same thing to me and said he has droped t from his routine. What about speed work beats you up? I always feel good after doing it?

I did find though that I had to drop my percentages from 60-70% to 40-45 % to really get the effect I was looking for.

60-70% is from WSBB. I'm now using the kennelly method.

caused elbow, shoulder, and knee pain. i tried it numerous times and had the same results ea. time.

 

[pullinbig]

yea, i'd like to get a journal going. right now i'm on the comeback trail (since september after many mths away from the gym, sickness, lots of work and lots of strength and weight loss). actually for all practical purposes i had to start off from scratch and things are still not great with lots of personal problems which refuse to go away. currently my stats are age 26, ht 5ft10, wt 227, squat 405, dead 380 flat bench 290, all raw (yea i know, dead is less than squat, raw!). right now i know those numbers are not halfway impressive for my weight but i'm working hard and hope to have some decent numbers up in some time. anyway, i probably should get a journal up sometime.
anyway, that was a thread hijack... back to the point about higher frequency. here's a routine which my own current high freq routine borrows a bit from. it's also what alot of regular posters on elitefitness have been following with alot of success. there are 2 versions - one for intermediate lifters and the other for advanced lifters. some of you may like this:
http://www.****************/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

so start the jouranl and we can follow your progress. you can read what guys who are stronger than you are doing as well. its like having a bunch of training pards when you know you gotta poat it up after you train. its a motivational factor as well.