My 1st Steroid Cycle. Testosterone-Enanthate, Aromasin & Nolvadex.

[Gregory450]

Hey Messymatt,

You wrote that for your PCT, on week 12-16 you would be taking Nolvadex 20mg ED & clomid 50mg ED. Are you planning to take some HCG to reset your testicules? Many people told me it would be a good idea but I'm still not sure if I should...After all, my balls didn't shrink much yet. Indeed, they seem to be a little smaller but they still look very normal. What about you?

 

[DrHiney]

Hey Messymatt,

You wrote that for your PCT, on week 12-16 you would be taking Nolvadex 20mg ED & clomid 50mg ED. Are you planning to take some HCG to reset your testicules? Many people told me it would be a good idea but I'm still not sure if I should...After all, my balls didn't shrink much yet. Indeed, they seem to be a little smaller but they still look very normal. What about you?

Read what I put on page 2 about hCG.

 

[messymatt]

Read what I put on page 2 about hCG.

Was gonna say the same thing. Some good info there Greg.

The testicular atrophy isn't as bad as I thought. There is no doubt that mine are lacking fullness but they are still very much normal looking to the eye. My post cycle therapy (pct) will just consist of Nolvadex 20mg ED & Clomid 50mg ED for 4 weeks.

Update

Week 5 and my strength has significantly gone up. So much so that I'm actually sore today. Yes, I should feel like this the day after every workout, but I have practically recovered overnight so far on this cycle.

Also, this week I have had maybe 7 yellow headed spots appear on my chest, back and shoulders. All at varying points. Nothing that looks unusual, unsightly or anything but its defiantly a side of the Testosterone Enanthate.

 

[stevejay]

looks like you spent some time researching....looks really good....only thing you may want to consider is running aromasin all the way through your pct...to prevent any estro rebounds imo....

 

[messymatt]

looks like you spent some time researching....looks really good....only thing you may want to consider is running aromasin all the way through your pct...to prevent any estro rebounds imo....

Cheers Steve. I was originally advised that to be honest, but after some pretty convincing conversations with DrHiney I've decided to run just the Nolva and Clomid.

Do you see estro rebound as a potential problem with this current PCT?

 

[DrHiney]

Cheers Steve. I was originally advised that to be honest, but after some pretty convincing conversations with DrHiney I've decided to run just the Nolva and Clomid.

Do you see estro rebound as a potential problem with this current post cycle therapy (pct)?

You could do either aromasin or nolva for post cycle therapy (pct), but not both. Aromasin can be run during the entire cycle all the way until the end of post cycle therapy (pct). Nolva is usually the more recommended drug for post cycle therapy (pct) because it is specifically used to prevent estrogen from binding to breast tissue. Aromasin is a great Aromatase inhibitor (AI), however it may not completely prevent gyno. For a first time cycle I would recommend Nolva for post cycle therapy (pct) for a few different reasons:
1) nolva is a great anti estrogen for gyno flares on cycle, and because of this it is good to know how you react to it.
2) many first time AAS users do not know the signs of gyno, and they may have gyno they are not treating. post cycle therapy (pct) with nolva will help with this.
3) some first time users are not as strict at taking their AI/ post cycle therapy (pct) drugs as they should be, and so nolva being the strongest out of the group, will help prevent gyno even if they are only taking it on a half-assed schedule.

Again you can do either, this is just my recommendation.

 

[messymatt]

You could do either aromasin or nolva for post cycle therapy (pct), but not both. Aromasin can be run during the entire cycle all the way until the end of post cycle therapy (pct). Nolva is usually the more recommended drug for post cycle therapy (pct) because it is specifically used to prevent estrogen from binding to breast tissue. Aromasin is a great Aromatase inhibitor (AI), however it may not completely prevent gyno. For a first time cycle I would recommend Nolva for post cycle therapy (pct) for a few different reasons:
1) nolva is a great anti estrogen for gyno flares on cycle, and because of this it is good to know how you react to it.
2) many first time AAS users do not know the signs of gyno, and they may have gyno they are not treating. post cycle therapy (pct) with nolva will help with this.
3) some first time users are not as strict at taking their AI/ post cycle therapy (pct) drugs as they should be, and so nolva being the strongest out of the group, will help prevent gyno even if they are only taking it on a half-assed schedule.

Again you can do either, this is just my recommendation.

Yeah sticking with this post cycle therapy (pct). While you're here. I keep noticing my left nipple every other day ever so slightly puffy. Just wondering if this is because of the Aromasins short half life. At the moment I am dosing with 10mg EOD. I do however have enough Aromasin to use 10mg ED. Any foreseeable implications or objections here? Or anything in particular to consider before doing so?

 

[Gregory450]

You could do either aromasin or nolva for PCT, but not both. Aromasin can be run during the entire cycle all the way until the end of post cycle therapy (pct). Nolva is usually the more recommended drug for PCT because it is specifically used to prevent estrogen from binding to breast tissue. Aromasin is a great Aromatase inhibitor (AI), however it may not completely prevent gyno. For a first time cycle I would recommend Nolva for PCT for a few different reasons:
1) nolva is a great anti estrogen for gyno flares on cycle, and because of this it is good to know how you react to it.
2) many first time AAS users do not know the signs of gyno, and they may have gyno they are not treating. PCT with nolva will help with this.
3) some first time users are not as strict at taking their AI/ PCT drugs as they should be, and so nolva being the strongest out of the group, will help prevent gyno even if they are only taking it on a half-assed schedule.

Again you can do either, this is just my recommendation.

Why Aromasin and Nolvadex shouldn't be used at the same time? Just a waste of money I presume?

I was also wondering if Nolvadex could be used DURING the cycle instead of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I am asking because I only have access
to Nolvadex at the moment...

 

[BIGHENCH]

Why Aromasin and Nolvadex shouldn't be used at the same time? Just a waste of money I presume?

I was also wondering if Nolvadex could be used DURING the cycle instead of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I am asking because I only have access
to Nolvadex at the moment...

Nolva can be used on cycle.

 

[Gregory450]

Nolva can be used on cycle.

But is it more efficient to use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during the cycle like Messymatt is doing?

 

[DrHiney]

Why Aromasin and Nolvadex shouldn't be used at the same time? Just a waste of money I presume?

I was also wondering if Nolvadex could be used DURING the cycle instead of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I am asking because I only have access
to Nolvadex at the moment...

Almost all Aromatase inhibitor (AI) are contraindicated with nolvadex so they shouldn't be taken at the same time.

Nolva should only be used during the cycle to combat extreme cases of gyno. It is not a replacement for an aromatase inhibitor; nolva is an anti-estrogen.

 

[Tone5500]

Great thread bro just read all 6 pages your updates and post are a great read and seems like your have a good time so far, ill be following reading to the end bro G\L

 

[messymatt]

Great thread bro just read all 6 pages your updates and post are a great read and seems like your have a good time so far, ill be following reading to the end bro G\L

Thanks bud. A lot of people have posted some very useful info. Stay tuned.

 

[TCoB]

i dont post alot and i am not here to bash you. i believe regardless if its in your mind to use or do something there isn't too much that will stop you from it. i have also never used gear before, some time in the future i may but for now at 29 i am still making gains.

my question for you is what type of trainimg routine have you been using before and how long and consistant had you been training?

i ask this because i have seen in the past year the same people at the gym doing generic muscle mag 5-6x/week crap and still look almost no different.

then there is myself and others. i do a simple 5x5 modified with with RPT EOD and i have changed significantly in the past 2 yrs. the others i speak of use actual real people workouts with BB (barbell) training whether a 4day split or EOD and likewise they make great gains.

i really think you could have made awesome gains with a possible change in training strategy. but then again gear does quicken gains regardless.

i came in just to emphasize that this type of training does not work for everyone. i've learned that the 5x5 schema works tremendously well for me, while my roommate responds much better to higher volume, lower weight types of routines. the bottom line is - everyone responds differently.

EDIT: by the way great read so far matt, except for the parts where you act like a dick and post naked pictures for some reason. kinda weird 'mate'

 

[messymatt]

i came in just to emphasize that this type of training does not work for everyone. i've learned that the 5x5 schema works tremendously well for me, while my roommate responds much better to higher volume, lower weight types of routines. the bottom line is - everyone responds differently.

EDIT: by the way great read so far matt, except for the parts where you act like a dick and post naked pictures for some reason. kinda weird 'mate'

Hahahaha, sorry. If I'd have known you were uncomfortable with the male anatomy I'd have worn some of the wifes pants for you. You must be one of those guys in the changing rooms who does a little shuffle under his towel to get his pants on and off. We're all men around here son, there's nothing to be ashamed of, or am I speaking for myself there?

 

[sproxton]

Just been reading all six pages of this blog, all very interesting for me (a potential first timer) and full of useful, practical information. Thanks to you Messymatt and Dr Hiney. Can I ask some rookie questions?

1. In Australia we have the same kind of NHS and health system as the UK. I can get the Test Ethanate online. For the post cycle therapy (pct) (Aromasin, Nolvadex and Clomid), did you have to locate your own sources? Or could you rock up to your GP and say "Look, Doc, I'm injecting testosterone, you better give me prescriptions for this post cycle therapy (pct) stuff or else I'm gonna get sick and start growing boobies"?

2. You also mentioned getting all your needles, alcohol and stuff at your local pump clinic. What is that exactly? A facility at your gym or a medical centre?

3. When you get your "bloodworks" before starting the cycle, is that from your NHS doctor? Who assesses it in relation to starting a cycle?

Thanks, Matt. Feeling your anxiety over your shrunken balls. That's the bit that worries me. That and the injecting.

Cheers!

 

[messymatt]

Just been reading all six pages of this blog, all very interesting for me (a potential first timer) and full of useful, practical information. Thanks to you Messymatt and Dr Hiney. Can I ask some rookie questions? In Australia we have the same health system as the UK. I can get the Test Ethanate online. For the PCT (Aromasin, Nolvadex and Clomid), did you have to locate your own sources? Or could you rock up to your GP and say "Look, Doc, I'm injecting testosterone, you better give me prescriptions for this PCT stuff or else I'm gonna get sick and start growing boobies"?

2. You also mentioned getting all your needles, alcohol and stuff at your local pump clinic. What is that exactly? A facility at your gym or a medical centre?

3. When you get your "bloodworks" before starting the cycle, is that from your NHS doctor? Who assesses it in relation to starting a cycle?

Thanks, Matt. Feeling your anxiety over your shrunken balls. That's the bit that worries me. That and the injecting.

Cheers!

Cheers Sproxton. Sounds like you are wanting to do things properly if you do choose to do a cycle. Good on you.
I have no idea about the health care system in Australia, so I'll answer your question based on what I know for the UK.

1) Firstly... Steroids are NOT illegal to use in the UK. Check your countries legal stance on anabolics before you buy anything. I sourced ALL of my gear and ancillaries online. I don't think you would stand much of a chance at your GP unless you genuinely suffered from low testosterone and needed hormone replacement therapy. However, if you are feeling brave enough and don't mind the possibility of the Dr saying "Get the fuck out of my office" then by all means, try your luck. He/She is a Dr and has to respect confidentiality at all times.

2) Pump clinics - In the UK, there are a small handful of walk in clinics (usually located near the big cities) We can simply walk in and obtain all our needles, barrels, alcohol wipes, safety disposal boxes in anticipation of your cycle absolutely free. They offer advice on using steroids and can do your blood work. They take blood, send it away for analysis and come back to you in a fortnight with the results. Highlighting any potential problems you should know about before starting a cycle. More than anything though, its just so they can assess if you have fully recovered from the cycle when you have your blood work done post cycle. Heroin addicts use these clinics too. Its just to make the whole hyperdermic thing safer. We are very fortunate to have this service. It is provided by the NHS.

3) If you don't have a pump clinic option then yes your GP should be able to provide you with your blood work results. I would just be truthful with them about why you need it done. To check, testosterone levels, cholesterol levels, kidney and liver function etc... before you start a cycle of AAS.

The testicular atrophy isn't that bad. They just lack fullness. They are very much still there. They WILL come back following good post cycle therapy (pct). Watch a load of injection videos on YouTube. When you know the procedure you will be a lot more confident. Nothing however is gonna get rid of the anxiety of doing your first jab other than actually doing it. Only then will you realise you've been a girl. The following jabs are nothing and you will actually look forward to them.

Best of luck.

 

[sproxton]

Hey Messy
Thanks for that, really appreciate it. Like you (and as endorsed by everyone with experience on these forums), I am going to take my time, make sure I have everything in place and not rush into anything. I have been reading all the advice like crazy and have grasped what seem to be the basics of a first test-e cycle - timing, doses, PCTs, etc.

In response to your answers:

1. Unless prescribed by a doctor, all the gear we're talking about is not legal in Australia. Touch wood, I have had no problems ordering a range of restricted substances from overseas so have just ordered all the PCT (oral) stuff online and will see how I go. I hope my luck doesn't run out.

2 & 3. I have been reading forums and your pump clinics are our "needle exchange clinics" for addicts and the universal advice seems to be to go to them and they will give me all the needles and stuff and advice I need, no questions asked, for free.

Have been watching a few YouTube videos on stabbing my backside - yep, the advice seems to be "don't think about it, just get it over with."

Thanks again, will continue to follow your progress and hopefully start my own posts in a few weeks' time. Your diligence and reporting is appreciated by many, judging from the hits.

Cheers, fella

 

[messymatt]

Update

Over the last week I have experienced more spots on my chest. Like yellow heads that don't look too cool but hurt like hell to pop. Call it acne if you like. I think with regards to the sides and what you are likely to experience, its probably fair to assume, for example...
If you have suffered from acne in the past, then you are likely to experience it again on cycle. If you have a receding hair line, or male pattern baldness then expect it to get worse.
I have been very fortunate so far with regards to the sides. Nothing more than slight testicular atrophy and a few spots.

The 2 most impressive factors of the Testosterone Enanthate for me so far have been...

1) The intensity, aggression, focus and hunger I am able to channel into my workouts. You do spend much more time in beast mode than usual. Put the headphones in and generally my appetite for wanting to get in the gym is stupid. Obviously not everyday is filled with raging intensity, so on these days I'll kick start my session with a pre-workout igniter. And that really does solve everything.

2) The time it takes to recover from the workouts. I will absolutely hammer home a particular muscle group and be expecting a severe case of the DOMS the day after but its only every so often I wake up and actually feel like I've done something, even though I know I'm hitting every session solid and really training to failure. I struggle having most rest days. I usually feel fully recovered and want to be in the gym, but I know these days are absolutely essential for my transformation to prevent over training. The recovery/repair element really is incredible. This obviously frees up more days to return to the gym.

 

[infection]

How long have you been lifting? 140 and jumping on gear?

I am cruising on a gram of test a week, and have never had a "random boner".. you might want to make sure you are not injecting yourself with liquid Cialis..