my trip to the emergency room and my thoughts on ephedrine and training...

[eastarr691]

Hey bros..it is eastarr69 signing on from home..still cant get this thing to work right from home...

...anyhow...here is how it went...

weas training with my bro taboo74 wednesday night...we were doing bi's...

heavy db curls..(to us) sets with 70's...anyhow, at the end of my last set, i was really winded, had a severe headache instantly, and shortness of breath, and burping some bile from the old tummy...

anyhow, i have been using eph hcl tabs for years, and also speed stacks for the same amount..generally my pre workout stack is 1 tab 15 minutes prior to trainig, aspirin, and drink a speed stack during the workout...well, i did not use the aspirin this time...

as the story goes, my head was pounding all night...i shoveled in 7 aspirin begfor i fell asleep...i awke with a shortness of breath at abot 0230...come to find some blood on my pillow, and my nose clogged with blood....

went and showered, as i stood up, an immediate headace...so, i showered, head hurt so bad i was throwing up...did not have a lot to eat, so i started hacking bile..and that is some nasty burning smelly ugly yellow shit....

so, i took 7 more aspirin, and my head felt good enough to get some more rest, got 2 hours slep, got up for work with a heradache, took no aspirin, went to the job..got out of car...was dizzy, head started to hurt badly...

so, i was off to the emergency room....

clued the doc in to the above...first thing he did was send me off for a cat scan on my head...why i asked, he said mostly due to the headache, and something else i never heard of....

he told me that to much ephedrine can make tyhe brain bleed...i freaked out..especially since i have been running this stack for 2 years now....

got the scan, found out that there was a minimal amount of blood on my left frontal load like above the eye...but next to the brain and the skull, he tolsd me normally the brain absorbs it, etc...i guess like a sponge, he also claimed to much caffine can do the same thing...

anyhow, they hooked me up to an iv of some kind of stuff that made the headache go away...kept me under watch for 4 more hours, then sent me on my way with discharge papers stateing, that i am to take no more ephedrine period....especially due to the headaches...

well, now my motivation is going to be my pre workout stack...

this made me drop the ephedrine cold turkey...but, he did mention i could get headaches from not taking it due to the withdrawl effect, sort of the way some get headaches from not getting their morning coffee....

he also reminde me that when you start to see those white colors in youe eyes and dizziness when training heavy, that is more then likely your bp through the roof...

so, with the history of strokes, bypasses, high choloesterol and bp on my moms side , including herself...i am going to be a bit more cautios while on and traing like a mad man...

this will not hinder the training or my gear usage, but it will change the way i think of doing my pre work out energy boost...

he told me how close i could have been to doing some real damage...made me think a bit...

we all want to be huge monsters, but to what extent..not to ruin our health...

but, you bros will be glad to know that my blood counts and liver was fine and i am on...i had to tell him, and my doc came up and he knows...so he ran the checks for me since they had like a gallon of my soul in little tubes..lol...

sorry for the ramble, but i figured i woiuld share my experience witrh you bros, and also to reflect...

like i said, i am not going to quit the gear, nor the training...just rtethink my approach..i am by no means a novice to this, but it goes to show that some times we feel we either know it all or are invincible...

food for thought for all us vets...and for the newbies, make sure you go into every decision with your head on straight and withj good preperation, and by all means, feel free to talk to your doctor..he may frown on what you do, but he obligated by oath to listen and to recommend...and help...

just my ramblings and my .02...

thanks for the space to write bros...

E

 

[StoneColdNTO]

Holy shit bro........that's sounds fuckin' scary. Glad you're alright !!

Kinda reminds me of when I went through my own bp & heart problems. Makes you realize in a hurry that you're not invincable, I know I re-evaluated a few things in my life, sounds like you did the same.

Thanks for posting this, may it serve as a valuable lesson for others.

 

[eastarr691]

Thanks bro...i sat in the bed in the er and thought about my kids..i only see them every other weekend..brought me to tears...and i am not on clomid, so it must have been me...

i was scared when i heard cat scan, and brain bleeding...

plus, makes me feel glad we have this board...not only a place to learn...but to vent and reflect...

i am however going to go see my moms heart guy..i need to get a good stress test, and get the choloesterol ok....i am on zocort, and it helped, but as soon as i went off it on the last cycle, back through the roof...so i made sure i was on it while on this time around...along with my flax seed oil..i swear by that also...

E

E

 

[panteracfh]

damn, crazy... im just a young guy at 19, so im still at the point where, like stone cold said, im invinsible. but i know something one day will point out that im not. reading peoples experiences like this is good for younger people out there like me, so you can get a heads up for things like that.....
hope everything turns out ok.....
did the doc put that you use gear on your record? alot of guys say they will do this and your insurance can drop you....

 

[WI]

Damn eastarr69, sorry to hear about your bad experience bro. Hope you get better soon.

 

[Johny J]

glasd to hear you are alright man. the bp thing is why i just started doing cardio. thought it might be a good idea lol

 

[scotty2]

I never card for the heart rate issues that training on ephedrine caused me. If I use it, it's after training the rest of the day.

 

[eastarr691]

Damn eastarr69, sorry to hear about your bad experience bro. Hope you get better soon.

Thanks bro...I am feeling better, i still have a slight headahe, but with the meds they gave me, i will be ok sometime today, i am going to hit the gym this evening, just no eph for me....

on the chart, as long as you tell the doc "off the recoed" or "in confidence" technically they cant put it in your record or chart...and accxording to my ex wife, who works for the insurance company, no matter what it is, if it is through the er, i am covered...

...they could dispute it if i go to the regular physician, and he noted it, but other then that I am good to go..

thanks bros for the get wells...luckily i caught it now and did not blow it off until next time...


...remember bros...listen to you bodies, it will tell you all you need to know..and dont blow it of...

E

 

[The !]

Last time I dieted while taking eph I'd get light headed to the point of almost falling back down every time I'd stand up (I finally stopped with the pills after a week or so). Good post!

 

[E-Swift25]

I train on ephedrine most of the time, but I just take it pre-workout as a booster.

 

[BiggieSwolls]

Thats definitely scary. I stopped taking ephedrine years ago after it caused my heartrate to get to dangerous levels. I did the same as you, would use it pre-workout. Then when I started seeing guys dropping dead from the stuff, I told myself I will never use it again. Most of us bodybuilders go overboard with self medication to begin with, taking too much ephedrine depending on your body can kill you and I will not take that risk even if it is minimal.

 

[slobberknocker]

Careful stopping ephedrine cold turkey. I did that once and almost went into a coma. Taper down.

 

[AP2]

Pleased you posted your experience bro! I'm sure it gives many of us a different look on our approach to training. Glad to hear you are okay.

Take care..

AP2

 

[vpigrad]

You took 14 aspirin and you blame the excess blood in your brain on the ephedrine? If that is really what your doctor told you, find a new one! It sounds like he's more interested in pushing an agenda than helping patients.

Aspirin is a very effective blood thinner in doses (this is a guess since you didn't post the actual dosage you took) about 1/30 of what you took! Excess blood in your brain from too much aspirin will cause headaches. You made it worse by taking more. Two years and a week ago, my wife ended-up with permanent brain damage from taking five 385mg aspirins. She had a headache from low blood pressure. Taking a blood thinner made it worse, then she repeated the same mistake four more times. Sounds like your situation. An MRI on her brain showed the excess blood in her parietal lobe. It controls speech, and it was several weeks before she could understand speech and almost a year before she could speak fluently again. From your post, it sounds like you took two doses 25mg of Ephedrine. I'm guess since you didn't actually say. There's no way that someone that's used Ephedrine for a while and built-up a tolerance to it would have those problems from only 50 mg. If you took a lot more Ephedrine or a lot more than you usually took, then maybe the Ephedrine had something to do with your problem. If not, blame the aspirin.

 

[buffdoc]

There are other issues here.
First of all, I don't think you should be right back in the gym. You had a cerebral bleed, bro!! Two days ago!!??
Many people have experienced bleeding due to acute increases in intracerebral pressure from straining! We do this a lot in the gym.
And yes, aspirin will thin the blood, but that may not lead to spontaneous bleeding, especially from the brain.
Possible scenario: ephedrine-induced increases in blood pressure, superimposed on more increase in BP and intracerebral pressure from straining (this can send pressure through the roof!) Possible congenital or acquired weakness in blood vessel wall. Plus aspirin effect. Bada bing, bada boom! Cerebral bleed.
Give it a rest for awhile, bro., unless you're eager for a repeat.

And Vpigrad, I don't see how you can say the ER doc was more interested in pushing an agenda than helping Eastarr91. Looks to me like he did all the right things. I'm sorry for what happened to your wife, but it's not likely for aspirin alone to cause this kind of bleeding unless the BP is up and/or there's a weak vessel wall. I think Eastarr's bleed was probably multifactorial.

 

[vpigrad]

I forgot to address a couple of things...

come to find some blood on my pillow, and my nose clogged with blood....

High doses of a blood thinner will cause that. When you took seven additional aspirins afterwards, you made the problem worse. I have several friends with bad arthritis that took a lot of aspirin that had to discontinue its use due to nose bleeds. Your doctor should have addressed that. If he blamed the Ephedrine for that, you've got your proof that he's pushing an agenda rather than trying to help you.

so i started hacking bile..and that is some nasty burning smelly ugly yellow shit....

Aspirin is a pretty serious stomach irritant. You should have not taken aspirin after that happened. I've had good luck with taking aspirin with an anti-acid when I have stomach problems. Next time you take aspirin while having stomach problems, you might want to do the same. Almost everyone has stomach problems at one time or another while working-out. The large dose of aspirin you took later made it much worse.

I'm not flaming you. I'm just concerned that you made several bad choices that I don't want to see you make again. Also, I'm more concerned that no one else here looked at the cause of the problem rather than just jumping on the attack the Ephedrine bandwagon. If you have trouble with thin blood that causes bleeding in your brain or a bloody nose, don't take a strong blood thinner! When you have stomach problems, don't take a stomach irritant! Just because, for example, Dianabol is illegal and aspirin is available OTC don't assume that aspirin is less dangerous. In the early 60's, I saw guys take 50 dbols at a time. If you took 50 aspirins at a time, you'd probably be dead or have permanent liver damage at best. Like with gear, you need to use moderation with OTC drugs.

 

[Workhorse]

You took 14 aspirin and you blame the excess blood in your brain on the ephedrine? If that is really what your doctor told you, find a new one! It sounds like he's more interested in pushing an agenda than helping patients.

Aspirin is a very effective blood thinner in doses (this is a guess since you didn't post the actual dosage you took) about 1/30 of what you took! Excess blood in your brain from too much aspirin will cause headaches. You made it worse by taking more. Two years and a week ago, my wife ended-up with permanent brain damage from taking five 385mg aspirins. She had a headache from low blood pressure. Taking a blood thinner made it worse, then she repeated the same mistake four more times. Sounds like your situation. An MRI on her brain showed the excess blood in her parietal lobe. It controls speech, and it was several weeks before she could understand speech and almost a year before she could speak fluently again. From your post, it sounds like you took two doses 25mg of Ephedrine. I'm guess since you didn't actually say. There's no way that someone that's used Ephedrine for a while and built-up a tolerance to it would have those problems from only 50 mg. If you took a lot more Ephedrine or a lot more than you usually took, then maybe the Ephedrine had something to do with your problem. If not, blame the aspirin.

I 1000000% agree with this post.

I want to know what doses of Epehdrine you actually took and what is in the drink you take while training. If you popped 14 asprin that night, you have more problems than just brain bleeding. Did you not think that wasn't healthy? I'm sure on the bottle is says NOT TO EXCEED 8 PILLS A DAY.. let alone 14 within a couple of hours.

So, let us in on the details of the dosages you took the day this all happened... and be honest!!

 

[eastarr691]

on the aspirin issue bros..i took it for the headache, not as an eca stack...and as the doc told me...8 aspirins do not thin the blood any more then 2 do..

My daily set went as follows...

25mg eph hcl, 1 asprin, and drink a speed stack during traing...and that would be honest..i have been doing this for 2 years and no issues until as of late...

and as the er doc stated, and apparently is medical fact, ephedrine will cause the brain to bleed...so i dont think he was pushing anything..

he new what to do, and where to send me and what to look for...

and also, on the issue of 50mg and the tolerence...eph will speed up the heart rate, couple that with heavy training and you have a problem..how many guys do you see in the gym just get off the bench, out of the squat rack or get done deading for some sets, and they are exausted, heart racing etc...

you bp goes up while doing these exercises alone...add ephedrine, and there is a potential for problems...

coupling that together with any type of pre existing bp issue, or another problem, andf there is a potential for issues...

and for those who say, eph is not the cause, well read any of my other posts or replies concerning eph...i was a fim advocate of it...but since my issue, which was eph related, for me i wont be using it again...went to the gym to tan saturday, just to be in there, not to train, and unloaded all my bottles of eph hcl to the front desk there and i am done with it...

and my normal dose is 25mg 15 mins before with the aspirin...so, i bumped it up to 50 this time and sipped a drink..so now we have 75mg...and couple that with heavy training, and i see now disaster...

and then one will say, well there you have it...you put yourself at risk, so you have no one to blame but yourself...

well, maybe so, but we all put ourselves at risk every time we take a shot, order a package, do a cycle....

food for thougth...

and thanks bros for the well thoughts...i took the last 4 days off, and my head is feeling better...so tomorow it is off to the gym for some chest work...eph free...

E

 

[Goat Ass]

you took 14 fucking aspirin? do you not know that aspirin is a blood thinner, i.e., it enables bleeding to become worse???????/

 

[eastarr69]

it was 14 over the whole night...not at once....and the bleeding was not due to the aspirin, it was due to the eph and thwe stress of what i was doing due to the bp issue...

and yes i know asprirn is a blood thinner....thats is why i took it, to thin the blood and get rid of the headache...

and the 7 aspirin were taken 5 hours apart...

E