My Unorthodox Cruising Protocol

[Roush]

Going to have to get off gear and cruise for awhile . Currently injured and I'm not going to be running the Ment, Tren, Mast , etc. I've been running if i can't lift some heavy as weight with a shit ton of volume. Plus my RBC/hematorcrit is way elevated and I've developed sleep apnea from that , so its about time to detox off of ALL AAS for a bit.

Cruise without any AAS , and NO testosterone/trt dose either. being i won't be be able to lift heavy I'll take this cruising time to maintain muscle (or possibly grow, who knows) , and cut up a bit.


compounds for cruise

- HCG
- Sarm Rad-140 (this and the hcg will act as my 'test' base)
- Sarm S-4
- Gw50
- GH secretagogue (or GHRH/P)
- HGH 4 iu a day
- Insulin (only on high carb workout days)
- IGF1-lr3 (4 weeks on 2 weeks off)
- MGF (site injection only in muscle groups trained that i want to bring up, biceps and chest)


so again , no AAS used during this cruise at all . but should be able to stay anabolic as possible without them, yet be able to get my blood work values back to normal ranges, RBC and cholesterol and liver values.

so with no AAS or TRT base , I'll officially be off cycle and able to 'detox' but hopefully stay anabolic , keep muscle , and burn some fat.

thoughts or opinions. anyone ever do a non AAS use 'cruise' and had any luck doing so?

 

[LJCatBrah]

Detox? While taking random research chems like s4? You know about the vision sides, right?

You'd be 10000x better off on 150mg/wk test than all that crap.

 

[Roush]

You'd be 10000x better off on 150mg/wk test than all that crap.

better off how ? better off in regards to maintaining/making gains while cruising , or better off in regards to overall health ?

if you mean the former , then no 150mg is far from enough imo,, if you mean the later , taking exogenous test will not help me get my HCT down, and if overall health was of primary concern , I'd not be taking anything and never would have in the first place (you don't take steroids for overall health benefits)

 

[AverageMan]

I remember you talking about this before. What is your TT while off all AAS? Sure the HCG will keep your natty test production going but to what degree?

I've never done this but my fear would be going back to hypo test levels and feeling the low T blues.

I hear you on the Apnea. I'm running my first blast and have gained around 20 lbs and snore like a freight train and even wake myself up. Do you use a sleep device to help out? CPAP or otherwise?

 

[jozifp103]

I have a feeling this might make you feel pretty lousy. HCG won't bring your TT up much if you're still using suppressive compounds like S4. But it would be cool to see where your levels are via blood work during this.

 

[SJC]

Going to have to get off gear and cruise for awhile . Currently injured and I'm not going to be running the Ment, Tren, Mast , etc. I've been running if i can't lift some heavy as weight with a shit ton of volume. Plus my RBC/hematorcrit is way elevated and I've developed sleep apnea from that , so its about time to detox off of ALL AAS for a bit.

Cruise without any AAS , and NO testosterone/trt dose either. being i won't be be able to lift heavy I'll take this cruising time to maintain muscle (or possibly grow, who knows) , and cut up a bit.


compounds for cruise

- HCG
- Sarm Rad-140 (this and the hcg will act as my 'test' base)
- Sarm S-4
- Gw50
- GH secretagogue (or GHRH/P)
- HGH 4 iu a day
- Insulin (only on high carb workout days)
- IGF1-lr3 (4 weeks on 2 weeks off)
- MGF (site injection only in muscle groups trained that i want to bring up, biceps and chest)


so again , no AAS used during this cruise at all . but should be able to stay anabolic as possible without them, yet be able to get my blood work values back to normal ranges, RBC and cholesterol and liver values.

so with no AAS or TRT base , I'll officially be off cycle and able to 'detox' but hopefully stay anabolic , keep muscle , and burn some fat.

thoughts or opinions. anyone ever do a non AAS use 'cruise' and had any luck doing so?

How is HCG and rad-140 going to act as a test base? If your body is shut down the only way to get it to reproduce endogenous test is with a full PCT correct?

I would also think that running a small amount of Test 100-150 a week would be better than that medicine cabinet you plan on running but I don't know.

 

[anzel]

Yeah I think you need to do a full pct. Go aggressive. Then do labs and reassess from there.
Also can't u donate blood for the high HCT?

 

[Black Beard]

I agree with everyone.


You should at least run enough test to keep you from going hypogonadal, which will be a significant detriment to your physical and mental health.


The efficacy of the HCG will be dependent on the shape of your leydig cells in the testes. It seems you've been on for a long time, they may not respond to effectively.


If your HCT is too high, dropping your androgens to zero is not the answer. Donate blood. You need testosterone, at least at 500 ng/dL to function. It's not just about muscles, you need to think about your mental health and wellbeing as well.

 

[Roush]

Yeah I think you need to do a full pct. Go aggressive. Then do labs and reassess from there.
Also can't u donate blood for the high HCT?

I've been on gear for 5 years straight (other than a 6 month detox no test I've done before) , and was hypo before I ever went on gear to begin with , with a total t of 160 ng/dl . Pct won't do a thing for me at this point .

I donate blood every few months . one donation will bring me down about 1% , which means I would need to do 10 donations in a row just to get to the normal range . which obviously can't happen, plus donating too often carries its own health problems . going off of all AAS, including test, and doing blood donations is the only way I've found to significantly lower HCT

 

[Roush]

If your HCT is too high, dropping your androgens to zero is not the answer. Donate blood. You need testosterone, at least at 500 ng/dL to function. It's not just about muscles, you need to think about your mental health and wellbeing as well.

i was 167 ng/dl for half my life (I'm 39 yo now) . I functioned just fine , built a million dollar business, had 4 kids, competed in sports, and was successful at numerous hobbies, tons of energy, etc. etc.. I can function just fine with low T (let alone needing to be at 500 ,, though being higher is beneficial for maintaining mass)

year or two back I went 6 months completely off TRT with no pct and my test levels dropped to zero I'm sure . I also went 6 months doing keto at the same time and had no carbs. think of that , no test , no carbs , for 6 months straight (hell on earth for most of you guys I'm sure) .. I survived, actually I thrived during the time (other then my sex life)

don't limit the ability of the mind to overcome physical things, like low testosterone. guys come on the TRT section of the board with total T of 370 and they complain how miserable they are and depressed they are . bunch of pussies , deal with it . 370 aint low. they just want to blame mental issues on a hormonal physical things instead of just manning up.


reason i selected Rad-140 as its a selective androgen receptor modulator that is supposedly a 'sarms' version of testosterone and will mimic it in the body to a degree.
to what degree I'm not sure . but I'm willing to experiment on myself and let you guys know . I really have no fear of going without testosterone , if it gets that 'bad' , which it won't, I'll just pin some suspension or some prop every day and be fine.

 

[Roush]

How is HCG and rad-140 going to act as a test base? If your body is shut down the only way to get it to reproduce endogenous test is with a full PCT correct?

other compounds can mimic testosterone in the body and exo test won't be needed. Ment is an example, you can run that AAS completely solo without test.
supposedly RAd-140 is capable of this as well.

I would also think that running a small amount of Test 100-150 a week would be better than that medicine cabinet you plan on running but I don't know.

having blasted and cruised for 5 years ,, sure that works ok , done that dozens of times . looking for something different then just going on a trt cruise again.

other cruises I've done are test/primo , test/hgh, test/low dose deca . cruising with primo has been the best cruise I've done thus far.
but this time I'm wanting to try zero AAS use

 

[Roush]

I remember you talking about this before. What is your TT while off all AAS? Sure the HCG will keep your natty test production going but to what degree?

I've never done this but my fear would be going back to hypo test levels and feeling the low T blues.

I hear you on the Apnea. I'm running my first blast and have gained around 20 lbs and snore like a freight train and even wake myself up. Do you use a sleep device to help out? CPAP or otherwise?

i've never had my TT tested while off cycle . I've only been off cycle once in my life (ie., since AAS use). I'm guessing it would prob be close to ZERO, as I was hypo before AAS use , and I've been on for 5 years.

I have oxygen containers on my bed stand and an O2 sensor . I'll take hits of oxygen when i wake up too many times struggling to breath and my oxygen is low. thats all I've got for now . its annoying as hell . however once I get my HCT down and come off of blasting gear the sleep apnea will go away completely.

 

[tx045]

all sarms mimic what testosterone does to certain androgen receptors but they won't do anything to raise or keep tt numbers up. They'll suppress or shut them down. Hcg will minimally effect your tt numbers if any. I do understand your want to detox tho. I've been off for a while and tho I don't have my edge I don't feel like total garbage either with a tt of around 400. You're right tho alot of it is mental and people do like to whine about a tt of 370. Different strokes for different folks

 

[Roush]

all sarms mimic what testosterone does to certain androgen receptors but they won't do anything to raise or keep tt numbers up. They'll suppress or shut them down. Hcg will minimally effect your tt numbers if any.

yeah the general consensus so far has been guys thinking about my 'suppression' , natty test levels, the Hcg, and even a few mentions about PCT.


just wanted to clarify that i "blast and cruise", and/or on TRT . I'm suppressed all year 24/7 for the last 5 years and plan on being for the next 50 years. its 100% irrelevant if a compound would suppress me or not , or wither a compound would not bring up my TT levels. Also PCT is 100% irrelevant for someone in my position as well.


would definitely be interested in thoughts on the combination of non AAS compounds I've put together to stay anabolic while off AAS . I've used most all the compounds on the list in one way or another , but never without an AAS base or while off cycle .
so curious on wither you guys think this is anabolic enough to maintain gains, even while cuting, while 'officially' off cycle here

 

[alphabravo]

I've yet to struggle with this HCT issue, oddly enough when not on test I'm anemic - being on TRT (200mg a week) just puts me into the bottom end of normal for hemoglobin and hematocrit. Even on a blast I tend to reach the middle range... never been capped out at all so one donation for me drops HCT significantly.

I think your natural production at this point is really the last concern, not sure why so many guys would worry about your TT being any worse.

I as well spent many years at 150ng/dl and still had some great times in life and enjoyed everything.... but I really struggled to maintain any lean mass there and the anemia would beat me down sometimes. If my HCT had gotten maxed out I would also considering stopping so I understand why you're doing this for sure.

I am really interested in what results you will see from this, or how much lean mass you will retain. Keep us posted when it kicks off.

 

[Roush]

a lot of you guys mentioned the HCG not being enough to sustain testosterone , and that I would need exogenous test in here and not just hcg and rad140.

i should note that the HCG is not for the purpose of maintaining any sort of natty test production or to help with recovery in anyway , as I don't pct . the HCG is to get a small amount to testicular stimulation and enough test to aromatize and convert to estrogen . I'm not going to take estrogen itself obviously , but feel estrogen is important for me and helps my mood and helps me grow . HCG is there to provide some degree of estrogen, as there is no other non AAS compound that can provide this other then HCG that i know of

 

[Gainjin260]

a lot of you guys mentioned the HCG not being enough to sustain testosterone , and that I would need exogenous test in here and not just hcg and rad140.

i should note that the HCG is not for the purpose of maintaining any sort of natty test production or to help with recovery in anyway , as I don't pct . the HCG is to get a small amount to testicular stimulation and enough test to aromatize and convert to estrogen . I'm not going to take estrogen itself obviously , but feel estrogen is important for me and helps my mood and helps me grow . HCG is there to provide some degree of estrogen, as there is no other non AAS compound that can provide this other then HCG that i know of

Threesomes and "spermcicles"aren't cutting it anymore.
It's time to get real kinky.
Take that estrogen.
Grow some breasts.

 

[Roush]

Threesomes and "spermcicles"aren't cutting it anymore.
It's time to get real kinky.
Take that estrogen.
Grow some breasts.

only if you promise to play with them

 

[49ER]

Sounds like alot of work when you can just run test im sorry for talking shit to you before send me your stuff your not using lol

 

[anzel]

A friend of mine came off test after having a stroke. He has been at 0 for months. He tells me it aint the same but he is still rolling along at age 46...
So there ya go.
Some people do ok on HCG mono therapy so you would be on monotherapy plus.
I'm curious about the outcome for sure.