Megatron28
Moderator
Existing gyno can be shrunk.
Need urgent help - incorrect dose
- Thread starter AlmightyZeus
- Start date
Existing gyno can be shrunk.
PortgasDAce
New member
I'd try raloxifene that is the best gyno reverse.
oldmusclemike
Well-known member
I would say yes to the above but my experience is that if a lump has been there for a year or more it will be hard. This is almost never to case as to shrinking.
However if caught in a reasonable amount of time less than a year and after evaluating the mass by mammogram it is a good chance to shrink it.
That's the problem with so many young guys they keep the AI (if any) on hand and wait until they see and fell something. Well keep the E on point and you might not have to try to reverse something..
Also the AI is for the E2 control for many sides other than Gyno.
AlmightyZeus
New member
Got it guys. I really appreciate all the help guys. And yes mega, that makes sense... Sorry I didn't mean to sound like I was jumping the gun, just curious that's all! He will be getting bloods done tomorrow. Thanks all 
AlmightyZeus
New member
Hello guys,
results are in, and I need you vets bad.
WBC 7.0 3.4-10.8 x10E3/uL
RBC 5.82 HIGH 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL
Hemoglobin 18.4 HIGH 12.6-17.7 g/dL
Hematocrit 56.8 HIGH 37.5-51.0 %
MCV 98 HIGH 79-97 fL
Creatinine, Serum 1.51 HIGH 0.76-1.27 mg/dL
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 51 LOW >59 mL/min/1.73
eGFR If Africn Am 58 LOW >59 mL/min/1.73
AST (SGOT) 47 HIGH 0-40 IU/L
Testosterone, Serum 2151 HIGH 348-1197 ng/dL
LH <0.2 LOW 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
FSH 0.2 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Estradiol 85.1 HIGH 7.6-42.6 pg/mL
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 3.1 0.0-4.0 ng/mL ( Few months ago he did a PSA way before doing all this and it was about 2.5 )
What is the next step you guys would recommend. I have access to adex, only at 1mg capsules.. so if you guys write me out a plan for him, we have to make it work with 1mg capsules. and Like I said earlier he is currently on 20mg of nolva a day. I told him to immediately to go give away some blood as well. but please summarize this blood work and recommend what he should do.
results are in, and I need you vets bad.
WBC 7.0 3.4-10.8 x10E3/uL
RBC 5.82 HIGH 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL
Hemoglobin 18.4 HIGH 12.6-17.7 g/dL
Hematocrit 56.8 HIGH 37.5-51.0 %
MCV 98 HIGH 79-97 fL
Creatinine, Serum 1.51 HIGH 0.76-1.27 mg/dL
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 51 LOW >59 mL/min/1.73
eGFR If Africn Am 58 LOW >59 mL/min/1.73
AST (SGOT) 47 HIGH 0-40 IU/L
Testosterone, Serum 2151 HIGH 348-1197 ng/dL
LH <0.2 LOW 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
FSH 0.2 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Estradiol 85.1 HIGH 7.6-42.6 pg/mL
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 3.1 0.0-4.0 ng/mL ( Few months ago he did a PSA way before doing all this and it was about 2.5 )
What is the next step you guys would recommend. I have access to adex, only at 1mg capsules.. so if you guys write me out a plan for him, we have to make it work with 1mg capsules. and Like I said earlier he is currently on 20mg of nolva a day. I told him to immediately to go give away some blood as well. but please summarize this blood work and recommend what he should do.
AlmightyZeus
New member
UPDATE & EDIT:
His symptoms in the past couple weeks have been more headaches than usual and sweating at night when sleeping. I read (sweating part) can be the symptoms of high Hematocrit levels. He will be giving away blood today or tomorrow.
His symptoms in the past couple weeks have been more headaches than usual and sweating at night when sleeping. I read (sweating part) can be the symptoms of high Hematocrit levels. He will be giving away blood today or tomorrow.
PrinceDianabol
Well-known member
He needs to donate blood immediately. Donation centers will probably deny him though, so options may end up being either go to a doctor and get a script for a therapuetic phlebotomy, or self-phlebotomize. I'd only recommend the latter if experienced with venipuncture and have someone in the room.
Looks like he may have been dehydrated too, he needs to up the water intake. That can commonly cause headaches but I think it's most likely all his symptoms are coming from the hematocrit. They could also be the elevated e2. Also, have you checked his blood pressure? It may well be high too.
Was he taking any AI before? If not then start on 0,25mg every second day. Or half a cap twice per week if you can. I would get some liquid adex instead...
Looks like he may have been dehydrated too, he needs to up the water intake. That can commonly cause headaches but I think it's most likely all his symptoms are coming from the hematocrit. They could also be the elevated e2. Also, have you checked his blood pressure? It may well be high too.
Was he taking any AI before? If not then start on 0,25mg every second day. Or half a cap twice per week if you can. I would get some liquid adex instead...
AlmightyZeus
New member
Okay sounds great! I also had a feeling his symptoms were mostly to do with his hematocrit levels. But also some from high e2.. But really? Just .25 eod? Shouldn't it be higher to reduce it since he's at 80? That's just so high.. No I haven't checked his BP.. We need to though. Tomorrow he is going to Red Cross.. If they ask him if he's on TRT what should he say? Any questions to say yes or no to so that we get the best possible chance at donation without needing a therapuetic phlebotomy?
And last question.. His PSA test last November was like 2.3 or so.. Now you guys can see how much it is above ^.. That is his biggest worry so what can we do to lower it? Or will that only come with time? thank you guys so much I'm so gracious for all the help.
Edit: do we continue the Nolva or drop it? If you don't know please read page 1 where you see he's taking Nolva to remove the small bump that formed on cycle when he took 500mg test instead of 200mg for TRT. He says it feels like it has gone away.. But of course his e2 is still through the roof.
ALSO** he is on HCG 250iu 2x a week since about a week ago so since that raises e2 should his adex be must higher to drop him from 80 to a normal level?
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PrinceDianabol
Well-known member
Both high e2 and high hematocrit could explain the headaches and sweats. Also the fact that his TT is 2k+ ng/dl would increase sweat and oil production.
I'm not entirely sure on the rules in your country/state/donation centre... if it were me, I'd say NO to ANYTHING that might disqualify him - including TRT. However I don't think he'll get that far. They will do a finger prick test to check his hematocrit and also check blood pressure. If either are high they will turn him away. I'm not entirely sure on the cut off for hematocrit, but ~57% is really high man. I daresay he will need to phlebotomize.
Whatever he ends up doing, get it done asap. High hematocrit and/or bp is dangerous man.
PSA isn't really as indicative of issues as most people think it is. If he's really worried, just get a prostate exam done. TRT can skew those results too so in all likelihood it's probably not that big a deal. Worth checking the prostate though. Other than that, I'm not aware of any real way to lower it or why you would want to. Big spikes CAN indicate prostate cancer (not definitely though) and as far as I'm aware that's all it's really used for.
Hope this helps
AlmightyZeus
New member
Yes this makes complete sense thank you so much for the help. I would write more but I'm using text to speech as I'm driving because I want to give him a solution ASAP. What can we do to lower his e2? I just feel like .25 eod won't cut it.. Just being the fact it's so high. Would Adex alone lower it? Or do we need letro? Really want to get him in a lower range ASAP... The blood giving is the least of my worries because I know he will get it done by tomorrow but do I drop the Nolva now and what do I use to drop his e2 into a normal range? And when should we pull his levels again to see if they have dropped. Thanks
Megatron28
Moderator
E2 of 85 isn't crazy high. Nothing to be alarmed about. Yes you want to lowernit, but don't freak out.
How much AI is he running now on the 250mg of Test per week. And for how long has he been running those doses?
He needs to donate blood
And his kidneys are dnot doing well. Has he had kidney issues in the past?
I would recommend taking 1000mg of NAC daily for his liver.
Watch the PSA. It isn't good when it is increasing. Hopefully lowering the E2 will help it.
How much AI is he running now on the 250mg of Test per week. And for how long has he been running those doses?
He needs to donate blood
And his kidneys are dnot doing well. Has he had kidney issues in the past?
I would recommend taking 1000mg of NAC daily for his liver.
Watch the PSA. It isn't good when it is increasing. Hopefully lowering the E2 will help it.
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AlmightyZeus
New member
Okay sounds good.
So regarding AI.. Originally when he was running an incorrect dose of 500mg of test he wasn't running any AI.. I thought he was running 200mg like originally planned but he did 500mg for like 8 weeks. Now that I realized his dose I told him immediately to drop to 200mg (TRT dose) and that we need an AI ..( dumb misinformed people told me he didn't need AI on TRT ) ...And that's when I started the thread, and u guys told me to hold off on AI until we get bloods in.. So currently no AI.. Just Nolva at 20mg. What would u recommend to drop the e2? I can only get capsules at 1mg of Adex.
He donates tomorrow.
How bad are the kidneys? He's never really had kidney issues, and now that you say that I'm a little worried. Thankfully I have NAC at the house.
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Megatron28
Moderator
Ok. AI dose should be .25mg twice a week. That will be enough.
If his kidneys stay the way the are he will be fine the rest of his life. But if they keep getting worse he will have issues. I would tell him to drink lots of water every day. No alcohol and no NSAIDs. Avoid drugs that are processed by the kidneys.
AlmightyZeus
New member
How would I do that with 1mg casules? Or is that .25 dose possible with the drops? I've never used them. Found on Rui?
And that makes a lot of sense. He does drink wine ever 3 days or so and drinks on the weekends. I need to make sure he needs to take it slow from now on. I'm pretty sure he doesn't drink that much water either. After this blood donation, plenty of water, and putting him on AI he should feel better. Is this your recommend dose for an AI along with 250iu HCG 2x a week? (Since it raises e2) thank you mega.
Edit: do we drop the Nolva?
Megatron28
Moderator
You would have to empty the capsules and dose by weight. You would need a very accurate scale. Splitting pills is a lot easier or dosing liquids. RUI is good to go for AI's.
AI dose recommendation is the same with or without hCG. Get blood work after about a month and see where it puts E2. Adjust as necessary.
He doesn't need the Nolva unless he has gyno.
AI dose recommendation is the same with or without hCG. Get blood work after about a month and see where it puts E2. Adjust as necessary.
He doesn't need the Nolva unless he has gyno.
AlmightyZeus
New member
Okay sounds great. Sounds like we have a game plan.
How much is each is those drops of liquidex for research purposes? .25mg a drop? That sounds a hell of a lot easier than weighing stuff.
Megatron28
Moderator
It isn't "drops"'. Each milliliter has a certain number of milligrams in it. So you do the math to calculate your desired dose in milliliters. For example, maybe you take half a milliliter.
PrinceDianabol
Well-known member
Mega's got you covered, as usual
I'll just add for comparison, as Mega is correct, 80pg/ml isn't THAT high for e2. I have seen mine 240+pg/ml before lol. So yes you want it in range but as Mega said it's not terribly high... nothing to freak over. I'd be morte worried about the blood at this stage.
I'll just add for comparison, as Mega is correct, 80pg/ml isn't THAT high for e2. I have seen mine 240+pg/ml before lol. So yes you want it in range but as Mega said it's not terribly high... nothing to freak over. I'd be morte worried about the blood at this stage.
