New drugs for PCT....
- Thread starter Ozzy27
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Ozzy27
Olympian Bodybuilder
Written by Anthony Roberts
Wednesday, 18 March 2009 14:04
I recently had the opportunity to speak with a South African doctor about Post Cycle Therapy (post cycle therapy (pct)) for steroid users coming off of a cycle. My previous thoughts on this topic are probably the most widely published post cycle therapy (pct) on the internet, but I’m always looking for more information on the topic. It’s a very poorly researched area, and although I think Dr. Michael Scally’s take on this topic is interesting, I can’t help but realize that he has a huge vested financial interest in his post cycle therapy (pct) program (and as a result, uses exclusively drugs on which the patent has expired).
post cycle therapy (pct), as you probably know, is important for A.I.D.S. and Cancer research, as well as for bodybuilders and athletes who are coming off steroids. Really, it is important for any area of medicine which anabolic steroids are used in, because eventually, most people have to come off. Even Jose Canseco.
During the course of my conversation with my new South African friend, he mentioned Ovidrel, which I admitted that I hadn’t heard about before. Essentially, it’s recombinant HCG, or a “next-generation” Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) product. This doctor knew what he was talking about;
it’s much more stable after re-constitution than regular HCG, and seems to have other advantages too.
The thing that really caught my eye was that it’s effects as a stand-alone anabolic and as stand-alone Hormone Replacement Therapy have already been studied:
[Orvidrel]r-hCG significantly increased body weight (approximately 1 kg; P < 0.05) and lean body mass ( approximately 2 kg; P < 0.001) and reduced fat mass (approximately 1 kg, P < 0.05).... Total and free testosterone and estradiol were markedly (150%; P < 0.001) and stably increased...
Of course, the study I looked at was three months long, and by the end of the study, it showed that muscle was gained, fat was lost, and testosterone went up, but it eventually decreased LH and FSH levels, which is the same thing we’d expect from being on regular Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for three months too. But in truth, r-HCG still seems to have a decided edge over regular Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for several reasons.
Another study looked at insulin sensitivity and other areas and stated:
We conclude that three-Months of treatment with r-hCG demonstrates expected hormonal effects, improved lipids and did not worsen vascular endothelial function. Insulin sensitivity was not altered despite suggestive changes in body composition. CONCLUSIONS: These findings suggest short-term metabolic and cardiovascular safety and argue against an important role for androgens in the hormonal control of insulin sensitivity in older men.
It may be time for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to be replaced in post-cycle therapy with r-hCG, but as I’ve said, there are very few studies on the topic, and more research is probably needed. Really, there isn’t much scientific data on Post-Cycle Therapy at all, which is a shame because it is very important medically, and not just to illicit steroid users.
Wednesday, 18 March 2009 14:04
I recently had the opportunity to speak with a South African doctor about Post Cycle Therapy (post cycle therapy (pct)) for steroid users coming off of a cycle. My previous thoughts on this topic are probably the most widely published post cycle therapy (pct) on the internet, but I’m always looking for more information on the topic. It’s a very poorly researched area, and although I think Dr. Michael Scally’s take on this topic is interesting, I can’t help but realize that he has a huge vested financial interest in his post cycle therapy (pct) program (and as a result, uses exclusively drugs on which the patent has expired).
post cycle therapy (pct), as you probably know, is important for A.I.D.S. and Cancer research, as well as for bodybuilders and athletes who are coming off steroids. Really, it is important for any area of medicine which anabolic steroids are used in, because eventually, most people have to come off. Even Jose Canseco.
During the course of my conversation with my new South African friend, he mentioned Ovidrel, which I admitted that I hadn’t heard about before. Essentially, it’s recombinant HCG, or a “next-generation” Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) product. This doctor knew what he was talking about;
it’s much more stable after re-constitution than regular HCG, and seems to have other advantages too.
The thing that really caught my eye was that it’s effects as a stand-alone anabolic and as stand-alone Hormone Replacement Therapy have already been studied:
[Orvidrel]r-hCG significantly increased body weight (approximately 1 kg; P < 0.05) and lean body mass ( approximately 2 kg; P < 0.001) and reduced fat mass (approximately 1 kg, P < 0.05).... Total and free testosterone and estradiol were markedly (150%; P < 0.001) and stably increased...
Of course, the study I looked at was three months long, and by the end of the study, it showed that muscle was gained, fat was lost, and testosterone went up, but it eventually decreased LH and FSH levels, which is the same thing we’d expect from being on regular Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for three months too. But in truth, r-HCG still seems to have a decided edge over regular Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for several reasons.
Another study looked at insulin sensitivity and other areas and stated:
We conclude that three-Months of treatment with r-hCG demonstrates expected hormonal effects, improved lipids and did not worsen vascular endothelial function. Insulin sensitivity was not altered despite suggestive changes in body composition. CONCLUSIONS: These findings suggest short-term metabolic and cardiovascular safety and argue against an important role for androgens in the hormonal control of insulin sensitivity in older men.
It may be time for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to be replaced in post-cycle therapy with r-hCG, but as I’ve said, there are very few studies on the topic, and more research is probably needed. Really, there isn’t much scientific data on Post-Cycle Therapy at all, which is a shame because it is very important medically, and not just to illicit steroid users.
GymLift
New member
Anthony Robert has been exposed as the idiot douche that he is.
Ozzy27
Olympian Bodybuilder
Androxal...............
Written by Anthony Roberts
Wednesday, 18 March 2009 14:01
It seems like every few weeks I hear about a new drug, or at least a new take on an old favorite. Earlier today I spoke with a doctor of biochemistry who enlightened me about Androxal, a Selective Estrogen Receptor Antagonist (SERA) that is poised to take over the position Clomid/Nolvadex once held for post cycle therapy (pct). It's been on my radar for a few years now, but it's entering the final stages of clinical development after being stalled, and I'm pretty sure it isn't too far from hitting the research chem market and becoming widely available.
It's being studied for the treatment of male hypogonadism by Respros Theraputics
Androxal is a drug containing Enclomiphene, the trans-stereoisomer of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid). It promotes gonadotropin-dependent testosterone secretion by the testes, similar to Clomid, although significantly stronger on a Mg/Mg basis. I'm also suspecting that since it's an estrogen antagonist and not a mixed agonist/antagonist (like Clomid is), it won't cause the emotional side effects common with Clomid. Let's take a look at the science, and see what we can expect, in terms of testosterone, LH, and FSH elevation from this product:
In a six month, double-blind study two doses of oral Androxal (12.5mg and 25mg) were tested.
At the end of the study 72.7% and 79.2%, respectively, of men in the 12.5mg and 25mg treatment arms had total testosterone in the normal physiological range. At month three, the mean improvement in testosterone levels was 184.3 and 259.2 ng/dl for both the 12.5mg and 25mg dose of androxal (which is significantly higher than either Clomid or Nolvadex will likely produce). After three months of treatment with Androxal, LH levels increased to normal values of 5.8 and 8.1 (in the 12.5mg and 25mg groups, respectively). FSH showed a similar increase as well.
It also exhibited a favorable effect on fasting plasma glucose, probably due to the bidirectional relationship between low serum testosterone and obesity/metabolic syndrome (syndrome X) in men.
Obviously this is great news for people coming off a cycle, as it's a more effective product than either Nolvadex or Clomid for elevating testosterone levels via estrogen antagonism. It may not have some of the beneficial effects that we expect from those other compounds, though, such as increasing bone mineral density or favorable effects on lipids, but then again, that's not what we're really attempting to do while on PCT.
If available, this would become my #1 choice for PCT, especially if it could be used in conjunction with Orvidrel. It's going to be a race now, to see which research chem company is first to bring it to the market, and what the feedback is from people who try it.
Written by Anthony Roberts
Wednesday, 18 March 2009 14:01
It seems like every few weeks I hear about a new drug, or at least a new take on an old favorite. Earlier today I spoke with a doctor of biochemistry who enlightened me about Androxal, a Selective Estrogen Receptor Antagonist (SERA) that is poised to take over the position Clomid/Nolvadex once held for post cycle therapy (pct). It's been on my radar for a few years now, but it's entering the final stages of clinical development after being stalled, and I'm pretty sure it isn't too far from hitting the research chem market and becoming widely available.
It's being studied for the treatment of male hypogonadism by Respros Theraputics
Androxal is a drug containing Enclomiphene, the trans-stereoisomer of Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid). It promotes gonadotropin-dependent testosterone secretion by the testes, similar to Clomid, although significantly stronger on a Mg/Mg basis. I'm also suspecting that since it's an estrogen antagonist and not a mixed agonist/antagonist (like Clomid is), it won't cause the emotional side effects common with Clomid. Let's take a look at the science, and see what we can expect, in terms of testosterone, LH, and FSH elevation from this product:
In a six month, double-blind study two doses of oral Androxal (12.5mg and 25mg) were tested.
At the end of the study 72.7% and 79.2%, respectively, of men in the 12.5mg and 25mg treatment arms had total testosterone in the normal physiological range. At month three, the mean improvement in testosterone levels was 184.3 and 259.2 ng/dl for both the 12.5mg and 25mg dose of androxal (which is significantly higher than either Clomid or Nolvadex will likely produce). After three months of treatment with Androxal, LH levels increased to normal values of 5.8 and 8.1 (in the 12.5mg and 25mg groups, respectively). FSH showed a similar increase as well.
It also exhibited a favorable effect on fasting plasma glucose, probably due to the bidirectional relationship between low serum testosterone and obesity/metabolic syndrome (syndrome X) in men.
Obviously this is great news for people coming off a cycle, as it's a more effective product than either Nolvadex or Clomid for elevating testosterone levels via estrogen antagonism. It may not have some of the beneficial effects that we expect from those other compounds, though, such as increasing bone mineral density or favorable effects on lipids, but then again, that's not what we're really attempting to do while on PCT.
If available, this would become my #1 choice for PCT, especially if it could be used in conjunction with Orvidrel. It's going to be a race now, to see which research chem company is first to bring it to the market, and what the feedback is from people who try it.
Ozzy27
Olympian Bodybuilder
Yes...I have heard that and when I saw who it was I thought...this isn't a good source for info. But just wanted to see what Macro would have to say. Or anyone that has heard or read anything on the 2 drugs.
There are others too that are being researched according to a thread on Primordal Performance.
With all the hype about how bad nolvadex and clomid are , there has to be an alternative. But of course we are talking primarily of high dosages I'm sure.
cherigo18cdz
Fit to Fight
Ozzy27
Olympian Bodybuilder
Thats what I've been reading but I don't want to be the first guinea pig.
cherigo18cdz
Fit to Fight
i used it and liked it
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