New labs on Androgel, thinking of going back to injections

[CobraMustangSVT]

Hi,
Here are my newest labs on 3 pumps of Androgel 1.62 and 350iu's of hcg on M, W, and F.

Labcorp (7/2014)
Total t - 585 (348-1197)
Free t - 11.9 (8.7-25.1)
estrodial - 63.4 (7.6-42.6)
DHT - 78 (30-85)


For reference, my old labs on 2 pumps of Androgel and 250 iu's of hcg on M, W, F was

Quest (5/2014)
total testosterone : 489 (ref 241-827)
estradiol: 43 (ref < or = 39)

I'm not crazy about the free T. My problem is that if I go higher on the Androgel, my E will go up too. I could take an AI and drop the estrodial and that should raise my free t.

Or, I can go back to my old protocol of 50mg's of t on T and F while taking 250iu's of hcg on M, W, F. That setup worked but I just got so tired of sticking myself with these damn harpoons.



For reference, here are my old numbers on 60mg's of t cyp on T and F (120mg's total) with 250iu's of hcg on M, W, F

Quest 12/2013
total t - 1408 (250-1100)
free t - 357.6 (35-155)
DHT - 69 (16-79)
Estradiol - 84 (<=29)

I don't feel the high E. Even with I was at 84, I didn't feel it. I don't have any nipple problems, no water retention, no blood pressure or erection issues. If the doc didn't run the test, I wouldn't even know.

Should I leave the high E alone? I know that injections, especially split twice a week would drop down my DHT and E. At 120 a week, I was at 1408 T and 84 E. If I drop it down to 100 or even 80 a week, split, I'm guessing that would drop my T down to a safe range and my E would drop too

 

[CobraMustangSVT]

I started 4 pumps of Androgel and dropped my hCG down to 250iu's. I'm hoping that the drop in hCG will drop my E2.

If this doesn't raise my free t, or control my E, I'll just go back to injections.

What do you guys think?

 

[lucius11]

I was on Androgel a few years ago. It was generally OK, but I was not on it very long. My local doc did not even check E2 (and obviously had no interest in prescribing an AI) and this was not OK with me. I switched TRT providers and went with Test-Cyp and an AI - never looked back. I'm not sure whether you will be able to manage E2 without an AI. I would not let E2 rise out of the normal range on a long term basis. You may not feel it, but it's not ideal. I get some acne when my E2 gets up in the 60+ range. Let's face it, you are not a female, high E2 is just not good for you.

You are already controlling E2 really well considering you are on HCG and test. My E2 would be double yours on the same protocol(s). If you could get a small dose of AI in your protocol (regardless of whether you stay on Androgel or go with injections), I think you could get everything dialed in real nice. I take 0.5 Anastrozole (Arimidex) every other day ... keeps my E2 around 25 on 100mg test 2x per week. You might even need less than this.

 

[CobraMustangSVT]

I'm hoping the E2 problems are becuase of too much hCG and my labs are not the sensitive assay. This is the regular version.

I dropped the hCg down to 250 and I'm going to ask for the sensitive assay in a month.

 

[Alpin]

I'm hoping the E2 problems are becuase of too much hCG and my labs are not the sensitive assay. This is the regular version.

I dropped the hCg down to 250 and I'm going to ask for the sensitive assay in a month.

I don't have the time of day for Androgel. That stuff is for wealthy trendy's who are timid to pin themselves.
If onw is to go to that extent to avoid pinning T might as well take Andriol.

 

[CobraMustangSVT]

I don't have the time of day for Androgel. That stuff is for wealthy trendy's who are timid to pin themselves.
If onw is to go to that extent to avoid pinning T might as well take Andriol.

Well, I'm not too crazy about it either but that's the only choice the VA is giving me (or patches, or injections every 3 weeks). If Andogel doesn't work, I'm going to have to take my TRT care out of the VA and go back to my private doctor who gave me AI's hCG and let me self inject (basically, he knew his stuff about TRT). I would rather not do that because the centralized care of the VA is better for me but my health comes before convenience but I'll do it if I have to.

 

[CobraMustangSVT]

I'm wondering if the non-sensitive assay is causing the high readings? I don't feel any of the sides of high E.

 

[lucius11]

I don't use the sensitive E2 assay. I just shoot for 25-30 or so on the regular assay. You may not notice any sides from higher E2 - it's still bad for you in the long run - you are not a female. If you are going to stay on TRT, you need to keep your E2 in check, it's just part of the deal.

As for gels or injections, I'm not a huge fan of gels. But test is test and if the VA is covering it I would not rule it out. A shot of test-cyp every three weeks is a non starter. One issue with gels is that delivery through the skin can increase aromatization and cause even higher E2 levels. Injections bypass the skin and minimize this effect of the skin on the E2 levels. But your body does not seem to aromatize that much. If you can get your T levels up into a decent range with a gel and HCG ... I'm not seeing a huge problem. Your levels would be pretty solid on 4 pumps of Anrogel and HCG. Just need an AI to drop the E2 a bit and you are in business.

 

[Megatron28]

Tell your doc that you have small children and women in your life. Tell your doc you almost contaminated one of them with the gel and you are unwilling to risk doing that again. Ask for self-injections.

 

[Alpin]

If you have a plan that pays for the gel....
I would rather stay on that than every three week injections that will have your estradiol sky rocket and T crash by the time the next injection is due.

 

[CobraMustangSVT]

The gel is free. It comes from the Veteran's Administration. The only other option is 3 week injections and the VA won't budge, whatsoever.

I can always go back to my private doc but there will be copays.

 

[Alpin]

Take the gel...
Up the dose.
Theres a stigma on self injecting.
You're not at a terrible level. If its all paid for its not bad.
Are they open to prescribing an a.I. ?
Estradiol is high

 

[Alpin]

How did you time the blood test for these results while using the Gel?
What did they advise from application time to blood draw in order to monitor?