Nolvadex hinder gains? During cycle or wait till after

[gtower]

Hey all,
Have just a couple little gyno lumps halfway into a 800/600 test/deca cycle.
I have upped the adex to .5 eod and now have very little nip sensitivity.

I have nolva, and was considering doing Austinites recommended 40mg fist week, 20mg till gone after that for the lumps while still on cycle.

But, I read that Nolva may hinder gains. So, I could wait till after the cycle ( 3 months left ) to use the Nolva or during cycle. I really dont want to hinder gains IF that is true, as I think they gyno wont get any worse with my higher dose of adex now.

Thoughts? Does Nolva hinder at 40 per day wk then 20 per day?

Thanks all.

 

[Mprtz]

You can probably gain one or two cup sizes more without it.

 

[Megatron28]

Waiting would be bad if it really is gyno.

 

[Pacific Rim]

I would rather take a gamble and hinder gains, then have some puffy nipples.
I haven't read an article that directly linked nolvadex usage with lack of muscular development.
However estrogen does play a role in muscle building, so don't over do it with the AI.

 

[gtower]

Sounds smart. I think I will start the nolva and keep the adex at .5 eod.
The hinder gains part..... This is where there is so much conflicting info on all the forums that things become hard to determine.

Anyone have any experience or expertise on the hindering gains or whether that is false?

I would rather take a gamble and hinder gains, then have some puffy nipples.
I haven't read an article that directly linked nolvadex usage with lack of muscular development.
However estrogen does play a role in muscle building, so don't over do it with the AI.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

There is some evidence that it may lower IGF levels, thereby reducing muscle development, but whether its by a significant amount is debatable.

There are plenty of guys who have used nolva and there gains were unaffected, so I don't think its anything to worry about

 

[Megatron28]

Wouldn't Raloxifene be a superior choice? No effect on IGF-1, correct?

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Wouldn't Raloxifene be a superior choice? No effect on IGF-1, correct?

The studies seem to show that nolva certainly reduces IGF-1 in the short term, while raloxifene doesn't:

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2010-1477

In that study, nolva at low doses (10-20mg/D) still reduced IGF-1 while raloxifene at 60-120mg/d had no affect on IGF-1 - BUT the study was conducted only over a 2 week period.
Of course the study also showed that nolva increased test levels 15% more than raloxifene so...

IMO, nolva's impact on IGF-1 would be significant (3-9% reduction) only in the short term. So for those worried about keeping their gains its really not an issue.

 

[luckypaul]

benefit vs risk bro. If you need it you have to use it.

I don't use as high of a dose of AI's or serms as I did years ago. I gradually cut the dose back over a period of time and I do feel like my gains are better. It may be psychological I don't know, but it really does.
I don't need as much as most people do, but for those who do, it is a must. The alternative is really something you don't want.

 

[Megatron28]

The studies seem to show that nolva certainly reduces IGF-1 in the short term, while raloxifene doesn't:

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In that study, nolva at low doses (10-20mg/D) still reduced IGF-1 while raloxifene at 60-120mg/d had no affect on IGF-1 - BUT the study was conducted only over a 2 week period.
Of course the study also showed that nolva increased test levels 15% more than raloxifene so...

IMO, nolva's impact on IGF-1 would be significant (3-9% reduction) only in the short term. So for those worried about keeping their gains its really not an issue.

Thanks for sharing that study. I reading through it I learned that Tamoxifen can raise SHBG. That will interest many guys on TRT as some with low SHBG do not respond well.

 

[luckypaul]

Rippedzilla knows this game well. solid posts.

 

[juced_porkchop]

Hey all,
Have just a couple little gyno lumps halfway into a 800/600 test/deca cycle.
I have upped the adex to .5 eod and now have very little nip sensitivity.

I have nolva, and was considering doing Austinites recommended 40mg fist week, 20mg till gone after that for the lumps while still on cycle.

But, I read that Nolva may hinder gains. So, I could wait till after the cycle ( 3 months left ) to use the Nolva or during cycle. I really dont want to hinder gains IF that is true, as I think they gyno wont get any worse with my higher dose of adex now.

Thoughts? Does Nolva hinder at 40 per day wk then 20 per day?

Thanks all.

if its gettign better now with upped AI dose i would not worry about it. maybe toss in couple weeks of 10-20mg tamox ed. just keep eye on AI moreso then SERM dose.

 

[00S4Boy]

Little late to the game but figured I'd throw in my 2 cents.

As for AI usage, I'd probably suggest using asin(exemestane) over adex due to it's suicidal nature you won't have an influx of estrogen rebound.

Nolva or ralox on cycle would be best to deactivate those receptors in the breast tissue until estrogen is under control. To clarify this, AI's just stop the creation of estrogen, if your already high levels you need a serm to actually bind to the receptors in place of estrogen.

Also nandrolone does have a pr binding affinity so estrogen might not be the sole culprit.

 

[gtower]

True, and I have considered prolactin as an issue, though I have really no signs of simple prolactin gyno. leaking etc... None of that.
I have adex, and that seems to keep things at bay for me. So I am thinking E2 issue.

Juiced_ Thanks for the advice. I would prefer to wait till after cycle as the more I read, there are studies that DO show IGF1 is reduced, and that will reduce gains.

Bro science is hit and miss. with all the reading I have done, Nolva looks better to leave out of a cycle and do after.

My lumps are very small. Pea sized or slightly larger, so IF they stay the same and do not grow, I will hold off on the Tamox. They are certainly not visible, so likely ok to leave at this point.

Learning more and more every day on this stuff. Not always easy to filter all the good and other information.

Thanks all

Little late to the game but figured I'd throw in my 2 cents.

As for AI usage, I'd probably suggest using asin(exemestane) over adex due to it's suicidal nature you won't have an influx of estrogen rebound.

Nolva or ralox on cycle would be best to deactivate those receptors in the breast tissue until estrogen is under control. To clarify this, AI's just stop the creation of estrogen, if your already high levels you need a serm to actually bind to the receptors in place of estrogen.

Also nandrolone does have a pr binding affinity so estrogen might not be the sole culprit.