Nolvadex no good for post cycle therapy (pct) ??

I don't take it on cycle, as I think it helps recovery to wait. Instead I'm taking letro up until the end of my cycle.
 
i have heard people say that novla is only used for gyno and not to raise lh. So is novla also able to raise lh by lowering estogen or only for stoping gyno.
 
Nelson Montana said:
The piece written by BIG CAT (posted by liftsiron) is typical of a book knowledge expert -- which is what BIG CAT is. He has never done Nolva, or Clomid, or steroids. That prattle was essentially "borrowed" material from Bill LLwellin. BIG CAT "borrows" from lots of places. That's what makes him an expert apparently.
Click to expand...

That's news to me. BIG CAT has never done Nolvadex or Steroids? Come on? That can't be the truth!:confused:

How do you know for sure Nelson?
 
Yes, BIG CAT admits himself that he's never done steroids but claims it isn't necessary to be an expert. Sorry, I disagree. If I had a choice between flying with an experienced pilot and someone who taught aviation but never flew, I'm going with the guy with experience!

BIG CAT graduated high school in 2001.

Look, if Nolva was so great for raising T levels, why isn't it prescrbed for low T?

What do I recommend? Well, an ounce of prevention....Find out how suseptable you are to gyno and avoid those compounds that exasperate it. I think Proviron is good. And in certain cases, A-dex , if it's used cautiously. But most guys would only need supps, like the ones found in Post-Cycle from Protein Factory. Even if you use drugs, you would need a lot less with the right supps. The bottom line is, you need time to recover. Most drugs just cushion the crash. But sooner or later you have to fly on your own.
 
Re: Nolvadex no good for PCT ??

StoneColdNTO said:
I thought that Clomid and Nolvadex were basically interchangable for PCT.

I know DrJMW recommends it for PCT.

Now I see where Nelson Montana says it is no good for that purpose.

Let the debate begin......and please lets keep it civil....:D

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19598
Click to expand...

I say CYCLOFENIL...the true underdog of PCT.....
seriously, hit post cycle therapy (pct) with everything if you can, to cover all bases.
No axe to grind, no bbding trophies to show.
 
Hypogonadism as a cause of recurrent muscle injury in a high level soccer player. A case report.

Naessens G, De Slypere JP, Dijs H, Driessens M.


"Using tamoxifen, an anti-oestrogenic drug, which stimulates LH and FSH production, we not only observed normal physiological resting testosterone values and a restoration of the testosterone/cortisol ratio after exercise, but our patient also experienced a higher sexual drive"


Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7591395&dopt=Abstract
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Inhibin and steroid responses to testicular stimulation in normal men.

Comhaire FH, Rombauts L, Vereecken A, Verhoeven G.


"Tamoxifen intake increased testosterone but not inhibin, and caused a moderate and temporary increase of luteinizing hormone and FSH"

Good article - Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8582972&dopt=Abstract
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I couldn't find article about guys who get 20 mg of Tamoxifen for 10 days, and after administration their test level increased to 140 %.
When I find it, I'll post it.


So Nelson, your words vs. research ...
 
This an interesting discussion,

I am considering my first cycle and have been doing a lot of research on both what roids to take and what to take in recovery..

I am thinking of a Ten week cyle of EQ, with a month stack of Stana (Winny), tabs for the first 4 weeks. With this stack I should not get signs of gyno at all??

For recovery I am thinking Novaldex every day, after one week after my last EQ injection in week 11.

Ill take 30mg a day for 2 weeks..
I will also be using Mega Tribulas Pm by GNC
Also the proviron.. however not sure about the dossages for this stacked with these other two post recovery drugs.
 
Muscle-fibre said:

I am thinking of a Ten week cyle of EQ, with a month stack of Stana (Winny), tabs for the first 4 weeks. With this stack I should not get signs of gyno at all??
Click to expand...

IMHO, I think that EQ & Winstrol (winny) is a very safe cycle with minimal sides. Unless you are very succeptible to gyno, you should be fine and have nothing to worry about. EQ can aromatize to estrogen, but the doses must be very high. Your stacking it with Winstrol (winny) which may have some anti-gyno protection (anecdotal evidence).

You didn't mention what your weekly dose of EQ is going to be? I recommend doing it in the 300-400 mg range.

EQ & Winny...good choice for building lasting quality lean muscle. Retention of gains is very high with these two drugs.

PS - I'm a firm believer that you don't have to have Test in every cycle. Keep Test out of the picture and you don't have to worry much about any ancillary drugs except for something for PCT.
 
slim said:
Hypogonadism as a cause of recurrent muscle injury in a high level soccer player. A case report.

Naessens G, De Slypere JP, Dijs H, Driessens M.


"Using tamoxifen, an anti-oestrogenic drug, which stimulates LH and FSH production, we not only observed normal physiological resting testosterone values and a restoration of the testosterone/cortisol ratio after exercise, but our patient also experienced a higher sexual drive"


Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7591395&dopt=Abstract
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Inhibin and steroid responses to testicular stimulation in normal men.

Comhaire FH, Rombauts L, Vereecken A, Verhoeven G.


"Tamoxifen intake increased testosterone but not inhibin, and caused a moderate and temporary increase of luteinizing hormone and FSH"

Good article - Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8582972&dopt=Abstract
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I couldn't find article about guys who get 20 mg of Tamoxifen for 10 days, and after administration their test level increased to 140 %.
When I find it, I'll post it.


So Nelson, your words vs. research ...
Click to expand...




You're wrong.

This is why I don't cut and paste. Instead I'll debate the issue head on. There is this weird dynamic on the internet where it becomes "my cut andpaste" reference against yours. But, rarely, do people even read them! They just see a study and go; "Ooooh, a study! It must be proof!"

Thse are two of the lamest studies I ever saw. The first one was someone who was in a catabolc state from endurence trainig. Upon stopping the endurence training his T went up. Duh.

The second one, also conducted on a single individual, presentd no amount to the increase. T flucuates several points day to day. That's one shoddy reference.

Isn't it funny how bodybuilders often talk about how ignorant doctors are about hormones, yet they're willing to put so much stock into a study conducted by a couple of residents at some jerkwater college.

So yeah, it's my words against bad research. And my words have far more research, study, evaluation, observation, insight and experience behind them than some one shot study.

Here's a tip you might want to keep in mind: Just because it's on the interent, doesnt make it true.



And by the way, Cyclofenil. Good stuff. Not great, but bettethan lomid and/or Nolva IMO. I negleted to mention it because it's virtually impossible to find these days.
 
Nelson Montana said:
So yeah, it's my words against bad research.
Click to expand...

You are funny.

Its not just a example from internet, its form Medicine Library.
Sorry but all you say, are empty words, without examples and any research proof.

I'll trust in result of proffesional research, not in your words.

P.S. "Copy and Paste" not "Cut and Paste" :cool:
 
slim said:

Its not just a example from internet, its form Medicine Library.
Sorry but all you say, are empty words, without examples and any research proof.

I'll trust in result of proffesional research, not in your words.
Click to expand...


Yes, maybe the are from Med library, but the point is, for every study you copy & paste, I can copy and paste another that shows the exact opposite.........and that's the truth.

IMO, the only way to know if something truely works for you, is to try it and have blood work done comparing it to your baseline levels, and even at that... it might only work for you and not others.
 
But most guys would only need supps, like the ones found in Post-Cycle from Protein Factory. [/B]
Click to expand...


what exactly is found in post cycle Nelson?
I am considering doing an all herbal post cycle therapy (pct), since clomid turns me into a girl.
what would your suggestions be?
 
Cut and paste, copy and paste. who gives a fuck? It's this type of pointless minutea that I try to avoid. It has nothing to do the issue at hand. And that is, you cited two weak examples that prove nothing.

And StoneCold is right. Besides the fact that there are always conflicting findings, I find it surprising blood tests aren't used more often. They're really the best way to determine the effects of any subsatnce. Since I'm on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) I get blood work done monthly. It's shown me things I would never have figured out on my own even if I read every journal of the topic. A few examples is how much HCG raised estrogen. (Yikes!) Also, how avena sativa raised free T, 7 keto DHEA lowered TSH and how TMG and apple pectin lowered triglyceride levels. I've also made suggestions to other people who have come back to tell me everything from their LDL to their PSA has improved. Right now this is a big focus of my work. I find it really interesting and gradifying.


speller: In the past I'd recommend a complete herbal/nutritional blend for PC that has worked for hundreds of guys. So naturally, when asked my advice on concocting a PC supp, I suggested the same stuff I've been suggesting all along with no compensation. There were too many ingredients to go into one, so Protein Factory broke it up into two products.
Unleashed is for lowering SHBG and raising free T and Post-Cycle is for lowering e, raising libido and erectile function and regenerating the liver. The reports so far have been outstandingly positive.
 
Nelson, i have just started a test deca cylce, 600mg test and 450mg deca. I am going to give your post cycle therapy (pct) a shot, because that is the only way i can give it an unbiased opinion. What exactly do i need to order from protein factory. Unfortunatelly i will not be able to critique it for a few months, but i want to see how it goes.
 
great... the first time i read this thread.. and the question i really want to know has just been asked an not answered yet =(
 
jcp2 said:
Nelson, i have just started a test deca cylce, 600mg test and 450mg deca. I am going to give your post cycle therapy (pct) a shot, because that is the only way i can give it an unbiased opinion. What exactly do i need to order from protein factory. Unfortunatelly i will not be able to critique it for a few months, but i want to see how it goes.
Click to expand...

Deca is tricky because the progesterone can do a number on your dick. I'd cut that back to no more than 300mgs a week and cut it out entirely the last couple of weeks of the cycle.

Unleashed and Post-Cycle will help with the e and libido and erectle concerns. (Call 1-800-343-1803) but like any anti-e, it won't do much against excess prog. For that, you may want to add just a touch of Winstrol (winny). (25mgs a day). That'll help.

Good luck, and let me know how it works out. I think you're going to be happy with the results.
 
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