Oral kick start vs. no orals?

Mr. dB

Angry Old Curmudgeon
In my two cycles, it seems like all my size, strength, and weight gains have come during the first 4-5 weeks, when I was on d-bol; after discontinuing the orals it almost seems as though all I'm doing with the injectibles is just maintaining and solidifying the quick gains from the d-bol.

I'm curious about how differently things go in a cycle with no orals. My fear is that the d-bol is the only thing that's really working for me, but my HOPE is that a no-orals cycle would end up with the same end results, only the gains would come more slowly and evenly. I would love to do without the bloat and the lower back pain that I get from d-bol, but I sure love those quick results.

For those of you who have done it both ways, what are your thoughts? Thanks.

--dave
 
I would look at one of two options.

1 - Front-load your long acting esters.

2 - Start off with a short ester like Prop (as well as your long esters), for the first three or four weeks until your long esters kick in.
 
It has a lot to do with your diet! You need to increase your cals to keep your gains going. I really dont think its a matter of front loading or using faster esters, I think it has to do with exceeding your genetic potential. Once you do this, your diet is the key factor to continue your gains and keep them when you come off.
 
LAWNSAVER said:
It has a lot to do with your diet! You need to increase your cals to keep your gains going. I really dont think its a matter of front loading or using faster esters, I think it has to do with exceeding your genetic potential. Once you do this, your diet is the key factor to continue your gains and keep them when you come off.

I don't doubt that for a second.

D-bol is such a lying bitch, when you're on it almost doesn't matter what you do or how you eat, you're gonna gain weight and get strong. Then after four or five weeks, reality sets in.

--dave
 
I use prop tp jump start and keep blood levels high up to post cycle therapy (pct) or Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) in my case

JohnnyB
 
My question to you is this....What would you define your body type as?
It has been my experience and also those of several around me, that certain types of ectomorphs and even some type of meso morphs respond quite well to dball/anadrol at the beginning of their cycle, and they made very slow gains from the rest of the cycle. This has happened on several occasions, and I could not figure out why. I finally decided to try a test with a few of my friends ( I am a personal trainer ) whom I knew juiced and had brough this problem to my attention.

I looked in their history and it had shown that while "off" they maintained a quite consistent workout routine.....almost to the point of boredom,....hell...Im guilty of this myself. But when it came time for them to go one they would either a) do a comletely different workout routine, or b) would maintain the same routine, but kick up the intensity. I ran an experiment with them and myself where we would change our routines every 4 weeks. The gains have been nothing but astounding. Every time they start a new routine....they pack on a few more pounds....then near the end it seems they level out...then bam...I slam them with a new routine for 4 more weeks...it has worked wonders for not only them, but also myself.

I truly belive that they are soem body types that fall into patterns of muscle memory and their bodies become so used to the strain that they adapt very quickly and gains are hindered. Ive been off d ball for 2 weeks now.....and of course I started a new routine...and ive gained 4 pounds in thre past 2 weeks.

So to answer your question in a very log winded way......if diet/training/rest are on par.....shock the hell out of your body with a routine it has never seen before......It will grow
 
nekrawulf said:
My question to you is this....What would you define your body type as?

That's a tough one. Before I started lifting at age 40, I looked like two different bodies had been grafted together at the diaphragm. Below that line, I was an endomorph; above, an ecto. It's taken me six years of lifting to grow enough chest, back and shoulders to just look like all my parts belong to the same person. I gain fat easily. I wouldn't classify myself as a "hardgainer," but I'm not an easy gainer either. I tend to get more hypertrophy than strength -- my size advertises more than it can deliver.



It has been my experience and also those of several around me, that certain types of ectomorphs and even some type of meso morphs respond quite well to dball/anadrol at the beginning of their cycle, and they made very slow gains from the rest of the cycle. This has happened on several occasions, and I could not figure out why. I finally decided to try a test with a few of my friends ( I am a personal trainer ) whom I knew juiced and had brough this problem to my attention.

I looked in their history and it had shown that while "off" they maintained a quite consistent workout routine.....almost to the point of boredom,....hell...Im guilty of this myself. But when it came time for them to go one they would either a) do a comletely different workout routine, or b) would maintain the same routine, but kick up the intensity. I ran an experiment with them and myself where we would change our routines every 4 weeks. The gains have been nothing but astounding. Every time they start a new routine....they pack on a few more pounds....then near the end it seems they level out...then bam...I slam them with a new routine for 4 more weeks...it has worked wonders for not only them, but also myself.

That's good to know. I tend to fall into a rut all too easily, or do the same routine for months, only changing up the # of reps and sets.



I truly belive that they are soem body types that fall into patterns of muscle memory and their bodies become so used to the strain that they adapt very quickly and gains are hindered. Ive been off d ball for 2 weeks now.....and of course I started a new routine...and ive gained 4 pounds in thre past 2 weeks.

So to answer your question in a very log winded way......if diet/training/rest are on par.....shock the hell out of your body with a routine it has never seen before......It will grow

Another problem that I think I've identified in myself is that the gains on d-bol come so easily that I tend to become complacent and mentally lazy. When the d-bol is done, I expect to be able to continue to do the same things and get the same results, but it just ain't so. I keep pushing for PBs the way I was when I was on d-bol, and that leads to overtraining.

BUT --

Lets consider a hypothetical situation. You have a pair of twin lifters, who are in identical condition at the beginning of a cycle. Lets say they're both starting a cycle of 500mg/enan/wk, 400mg/EQ/wk., for 12 weeks. But one of the twins kick starts his cycle with 40mg/d-bol/day for four weeks, and the other doesn't. Assuming identical diets, and "optimum" workouts, we can probably assume that the twin on d-bol will pull out ahead of his brother during the first four or five weeks of the cycle. At the end of the cycle, though, again assuming all else is equal, what difference would you expect? Would the twin who didn't take orals, through slow, steady gains, end up in the same place as his brother who made the fast initial gains on d-bol?

Thanks.

--dave

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6932&highlight=old+fat+dork

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5058&highlight=sick+on+cycle
 
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See this is where you place yourself in a quanandrum! If one brother kickstarted with dball....it would change his training, his diet, and mabey also a few other factors. Let alone the fact that he is including more gear and in theory would gain more....considering all other factors were on par.


It sound like you are ectomorph who tends to hold a lot of water with orals....and mabey you are confusing the quick water gains....which is highly associated with orals.....with true gains.

I myself swear by dbol....and if it didnt screw my lipid values up so bad..I would run it the entire cycle. You said it yourself that you think you may be overtraining. Try developing a new routine and stick with it for say 4-5 weeks. Then switch again or revert back to your old one. Its all trial and error until you figure out your body...after that it becomes cake!
 
nekrawulf said:


It sound like you are ectomorph who tends to hold a lot of water with orals....and mabey you are confusing the quick water gains....which is highly associated with orals.....with true gains.

Well, the reason why I tend to think of the gains on d-bol as "real" gains is because of the huge strength gains and ability to recover from "excessive" training. Shit makes me feel like Superman. I also find it to be a mood elevator.



I myself swear by dbol....and if it didnt screw my lipid values up so bad..I would run it the entire cycle. You said it yourself that you think you may be overtraining. Try developing a new routine and stick with it for say 4-5 weeks. Then switch again or revert back to your old one. Its all trial and error until you figure out your body...after that it becomes cake!

I love the shit, except that I get a lot of lower back pain from it. Enough lower back pain that I think it screws with my progress on lower body gains.

--dave
 
i am an ecotomorph and starting d-bol tommrow also... this thread interests me very much... i may shake up the workout routine.

thanks for the good advice so far
 
if you gain quickley off dbol and just maintain those gains maybe you could take more dbol, get more gains, and then take a higher dosage of test and see if you still gain. upping cals is also a good idea, are you finishing with prop, or waiting for a long acting ester to get out of your system?
 
I feel the same as Mr DB. I was on a 12 week cycle. I gained over 20 pounds the first 4 weeks. The following 4 weeks I gained maybe a pound or 2. Then I went back on D-bol for the last 4 weeks and gained another 8-10 pounds. For a total of 31.

Now I also seemed to look better when DBol was taken. When I came off I looked soft, but when I came back on, I looked a lot better.

It could be the training thing. I don't think it was diet. I was eating like crazy all thru the cycle.

What can we say, DBOL is the SHIT!!!
 
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