Placed on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) but wanna max it out

[Tog565]

Placed on TRT but wanna max it out

40 yr old male 5'9 200 decent build but b/f too high. Diagnosed with low T. Doc has me on 200 mg test inject every 2 weeks + 2 pumps 1.62 androgel daily. Doc is pretty open. If I'm gonna be on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) anyway what should I do/ask for to take it to the next level making it more Cycling than testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? eating and workout plan in place. I also get random drug tests at work. THX!

 

[Austinite]

Hey Tog,

This is quite an odd protocol you got there. Not sure what the point of androgel is. I'd be cautious about discussing doses beyond testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) with your doc. Furthermore; it's in your best interest to get your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) program dialed in very well for a while before you consider lasting through.

On a side note, you might want to consider splitting your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) injectable dose. Administering 50 mg twice weekly is far more stable than 200mg every 2 weeks. This would also eliminate the need for androgel which seems to be in place to make up for the distant doses.

 

[jSalud]

Work drug test check mostly for recreational drugs. Continuous high doses would be horrible for you. Common protocol for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) guys is to cruise at prescribed amount then it blood work is in order "blast" higher levels for a short time period (8-12 weeks).

Those who blast and cruise must also get regular blood work down every 2 months or so to prevent any complications. Talk to Halfwit and/or Austinite about it. They are both on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and are very knowledgeable.

 

[jSalud]

Ah he beat me to it lol

 

[cruiser1019]

The gel is crap & why they have you on gel with injections doesn't make sense. Gel highly converts to E2, so no doubt the only thing it's doing with injections is raising your estro. As far as increasing your dose for better gains like the others have said. You'll need to be aware of when your doc is sending you for follow up blood work or you are going to screw yourself out of trt.

 

[Jack Tors]

I agree with these guys. I was ok with the 2 week shots but most ppl arent. I would be careful with the cycling with the doc. I would buy my own shit and bump it up to 500mg for 12 weeks then drop to the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose for the next 6 months at least. If the bloodwork comes back bad your going to have to come off everything and you will feel worse then before you started. Learn a little more before you jump into this. Arimidex should be taken for some even with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dosages.

 

[Megatron28]

Like Austinite said, get your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol dialed in first before you start considering a cycle. This can easily take up to a year or more. And your doc is going to probably be checking your levels frequently in the beginning. They won't like it when you pop a +1500 Total T result.

 

[Tog565]

First and foremost thank you all for taking the time to respond! I had gotten away from the lifting community for 5-6 years after becoming a Father which seemed to tie in with my lack of "fire" and after nearly 2 decades or so of working hard, it was gone in a few short years. Thankfully, I somehow managed to still look as though I lift but, have gone from 180 and low ten b/f to 200 with 20's b/f. I went to the doc at the encouraging of the wife as she said I had become a shell of myself and had no energy. I became the "I'll play later" dad. I went in for bloodworm and the doc immediately thought low T but, did blood work to confirm. A day later a t result came back at 157. Doc put me on gel (1.62) and had me return in two weeks. went back and told doc I felt worse or same. He gave me 400 test inject, told me to stay on andro and come back in 2 weeks for 200 test inject. Did this last week and have continued on gel. I am to return in 2 weeks for another inject and blood tests to see where I am at. I feel a bit better now but, haven't noticed much. I am hoping that I can take advantage of this script to get back down to 180ish and mid teen b/f and return to being an active dad. I can't do anything illegal, buy or use, as it is not worth the risk. What I was considering is maybe stacking the andro gel, test inject (100 per week), and a ph such as EPI. I am thinking that the gel with help boost t along with the inject while the EPI will keep E2 in check. thinking this may give me a decent boost and dry gains. Looking at 6 to 8 week cycle then just testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) maintenance dose. Not looking for bulk-out; more weight loss/vascular deal, a few lbs of quality muscle gain (6 lbs or so). Is this something that may work? Would trenavar or Helladrol be better? Does anyone have a suggestion as to what this would look like dosage wise or have a better suggestion to include supplements? Again, if I sound like an idiot then go ahead and kick me in the dick. Thanks for all your help. Says a lot for this community and the lifting community as a whole...***tear****. Damn estrogen.......

 

[halfwit]

Whoa man. You're on the right track here, but WAY jumping the gun. Get your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol under lock and key FIRST. You'll need to get everything sorted out such as what dosing schedule and amounts are optimal in helping you feel your best as well as controlling that pesky estrogen. You've gotten great advice so far, but that also includes the use of prohormones. Just because they're legal (for now) doesn't mean that they won't interfere with your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol. Give it time to "kick in" and start to give you your life back first. Once you have all that taken care of, then you can start to play with the other goodies.

It's going to take a good couple months for the hormones to start to fix the damage that has been done. That includes the weight gain and any other nasty sides that come with being deficient of such a vital hormone. Be sure (as mentioned above) to keep an eye on your estradiol (E2) as this WILL increase as your testosterone increases. I'd also recommend you talk to your doc about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) (it helps to stimulate other hormones that aren't necessarily made by the testes) or at least pregnenolone/DHEA supplementation. You'll also want to start donating blood regularly as many doctors don't reveal this all too important facet of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) in that we now become red blood cell making machines and need to get rid of them before they have a negative impact on our health.

Oh, and I totally would lose that crappy gel man; you really don't want to get that stuff on the wife or kids. I'm surprised you were put on it in the first place to be honest as it's not really a proper choice for a family man in my opinion.

My .02c

 

[cruiser1019]

First and foremost thank you all for taking the time to respond! I had gotten away from the lifting community for 5-6 years after becoming a Father which seemed to tie in with my lack of "fire" and after nearly 2 decades or so of working hard, it was gone in a few short years. Thankfully, I somehow managed to still look as though I lift but, have gone from 180 and low ten b/f to 200 with 20's b/f. I went to the doc at the encouraging of the wife as she said I had become a shell of myself and had no energy. I became the "I'll play later" dad. I went in for bloodworm and the doc immediately thought low T but, did blood work to confirm. A day later a t result came back at 157. Doc put me on gel (1.62) and had me return in two weeks. went back and told doc I felt worse or same. He gave me 400 test inject, told me to stay on andro and come back in 2 weeks for 200 test inject. Did this last week and have continued on gel. I am to return in 2 weeks for another inject and blood tests to see where I am at. I feel a bit better now but, haven't noticed much. I am hoping that I can take advantage of this script to get back down to 180ish and mid teen b/f and return to being an active dad. I can't do anything illegal, buy or use, as it is not worth the risk. What I was considering is maybe stacking the andro gel, test inject (100 per week), and a ph such as EPI. I am thinking that the gel with help boost t along with the inject while the EPI will keep E2 in check. thinking this may give me a decent boost and dry gains. Looking at 6 to 8 week cycle then just testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) maintenance dose. Not looking for bulk-out; more weight loss/vascular deal, a few lbs of quality muscle gain (6 lbs or so). Is this something that may work? Would trenavar or Helladrol be better? Does anyone have a suggestion as to what this would look like dosage wise or have a better suggestion to include supplements? Again, if I sound like an idiot then go ahead and kick me in the dick. Thanks for all your help. Says a lot for this community and the lifting community as a whole...***tear****. Damn estrogen.......

Stay with your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol for now & don't worry about bumping up the test or using PH's. You can make GREAT! gains on your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) program. Give it some time & stay away from the gel.

 

[Tog565]

lol...you couldn't be more right halfwit and cruiser! I got excited when given the test script as I finally felt that I had found the reason for my loss of zest and mere existing through life when I use to be the positive life of the party type. Was definitely shooting for the stars right off the rip. I forgot everything I had learned over 20+ years of lifting and eating clean. Probably excited by the fact that I actually want to work-out again. Really balanced me out and I am excited to go back to being inshape. It is easy to get swallowed by the "I wanna change it all now" pill because I forgot it took me 5+ years of shit eating and not working-out to get me to where I am today. I have a doctor appt in two weeks for a another 200 test inject and blood work. Doctor said that if I am happy on the injects he would rather have me do those and will give me a script where I can shoot myself. He said if I chose this route he will discontinue gel and only have me back every 6 months or so to check everything out. I was under the impression that if I had gel (even bumping it up to 4 pumps daily) with the 100mg test inject weekly coupled with an E2 inhib (controlled by a ph) that I would be jacking my test level to a mild cycle and controlling estradiol. I started to think of the PH add cruiser after I continually read that the T levels achieved with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) were great for overall health but, worthless compared to a mild cycle / fast gains. I will also speak to my doc about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) but, my buddy recently asked for it and was told that he prefers not to start lambasting the system with a bunch of shit until test levels are looking better. Gotta start the engine before you can fine tune it...his words. Like I said though, he is a great doc so far and very open. I've only been on therapy for a month, finishing a bottle of gel and have had 600 mg test inject so far, and have not noticed really anything yet. His goal is to have me a bit above 1,000 test but, said he needs to be careful not to jack me to 3,000 as he is trying to move me along faster to meet my expectations without endangering my health. I also don't think he is big on Clomid, et al scripts but, we will cross that bridge if I see my E going above 30.
I will hold-off on adding any PH as I have other issue's to concentrate on anyway. I'm not where I was and I have to remember that. My diet is still cleaning-up and I only have a few weeks back working out. Weird how fast it goes. As far as testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and what I am doing goes, here it is:

Inject 100 test weekly
taking multi-Vitamin
taking B-complex
taking fish oil
keeping below 2,000 cal with 45% protein, 35% carb, 20% fat (roughly. Tweaking now to balance weight loss with enough pro to support/promote muscle growth)
doing RushFit program

*** Is there anything else I should be doing or should be doing differently?
ie- should I be adding 1,500mg of L-Lysine and Arginine nightly?
should I be taking DHEA (I have heard both sides of the argument and it always seems like its a bad idea)

Again, thanks to everyone for helping out and slowing my ass down a bit. Great information from you all and I appreciate you guys taking time out of your day for a no other reason than to help.

 

[halfwit]

I would first start off by posting in 3js diet thread sticky in the diet section. 2,000 kcalories is not a lot and you might be putting your body in starvation mode which is counterproductive to what your goals are. Just be sure to read the directions first so you can save yourself some trouble of having to redo your post. Diet is definitely king and if it lacks, you will be sorely disappointed with what you envision.

I definitely would personally like to get off the gels as they not only convert greatly to DHT which isn't our friend, but there's that risk to others in your household of exposure. Injections are definitely the best way and you actually sound like you have a good doctor for once. Most guys aren't so lucky and they have a really nasty uphill battle ahead of them. Stick with what your protocol deems and you will start to see results in the upcoming months. If you're concerned with DHEA, you can always have a DHEA-S panel added to your next set of blood tests coming up shortly. I personally have been taking it along with pregnenonlone as my doctor isn't as cooperative as yours and refuses to prescribe HCG. It is a personal choice, but it is a fact that these two hormones cease or have a stunted production due to exogenous testosterone use as found in TRT. Arginine is a vasodilator, so while it was touted as a fantastic supplement 20 years ago - it's more of a pre-workout addition that many like as it helps with blood flow and vascularity. Easy on the lysine, but you can supplement with it if you desire - just remember, some amino acids do interfere with the absorption of others when taken in great amounts. I strongly recommend reading some of Austinite's tutorials on supplementation and AAS use. They will give you quite a bit of information that you may not already know and are quite invaluable when getting started.

Keep it up man, you're in for a heck of a treat!

My .02c

 

[Tog565]

Halfwit,

Thanks brother! Definitely looking forward to the treat. Just greatful to finally be getting back on tract. My doc is great but, he does seem apprehensive about jackin Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), clomid etc. without having substantial reasons for it. I havent approached him yet on that scale but everything else seems cool about the guy. He said he isnt happy until I'm dropping fat and chasing the old lady around the house with a boner. He uses this as his barometer as he says number are person specific. It has only been a month so we will see. Gotta keep reminding myself to slow down. I am gonna ask him to dump the gel and do 100-150 mg a week inject to jack my levels. Not sure if I should just start DHEA and Preg now anyway as having a 400 3 weeks ago and another 200 this week coupled with gel has probably jacked my E2 and shut down production of the others. What is your total protocol/supplementation? I don't have to take the arg or the Lysine. Just read it somewhere to use those, carnitine, and clen. Type in fat loss on the web and you get jacked by all the options. I checked out Aug and and have reached out to 3js. 3js recommended a carb cycling diet to lose 20 lbs and I am unable to really sector down supps as money is the main player here. hoping to narrow down to a few - good multi, vit b complex, glutamine (after w/o), protein powder, fish oils, a ph (later), and..................... Are you on gel now?

 

[Megatron28]

Tog, you're becoming manic again. Breath... Slow down.

Just start on the test and add the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) if you have estradiol problems. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to if you want it and can get your doc to give it to you. Typically, the AI's of choice while on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) are arimidex or aromasin. Not clomid -- that is a SERM.

Let testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) work and see how you feel. Get frequent lab work and make adjustments as necessary. You will run into issues along the way. Everyone responds differently, so you can't predict everything you will go through. But I can tell you that if you start throwing other things into the mix, you won't know what lever to pull when there is a problem. You will be asking, is it the test, Aromatase inhibitor (AI), or the clen cycle that is making me feel this way? testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is a marathon, not a sprint. Get into your stride before you start going crazy.

I promise you that on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) alone you will start feeling like a new man. You don't have to "jack" everything up. Do what your doc is telling you. Get your TT in the upper end of the normal range. Get a big boner and chase your wife around the house like you are 17 again. Have the energy to live again and go to the gym. Fix your diet. Sleep plenty every night. Gain your doc's trust. Get the fundamentals in place first.

 

[Tog565]

bahahahahaha...awesome post. OK. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) it is. Droppin the gel, and will only be taking multi-vitamin, b complex, fish oils, and Glutamine (p/w). I'm also gonna start a carb cycling diet and initially stick to cardio and RushFit Intermediate Program. How's that sounds? lol...... is there a place to set-up a blog on results w pics or should i do it here to keep the thread open and the advice flowin?

 

[halfwit]

Halfwit,

Thanks brother! Definitely looking forward to the treat. Just greatful to finally be getting back on tract. My doc is great but, he does seem apprehensive about jackin Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), clomid etc. without having substantial reasons for it. I havent approached him yet on that scale but everything else seems cool about the guy. He said he isnt happy until I'm dropping fat and chasing the old lady around the house with a boner. He uses this as his barometer as he says number are person specific. It has only been a month so we will see. Gotta keep reminding myself to slow down. I am gonna ask him to dump the gel and do 100-150 mg a week inject to jack my levels. Not sure if I should just start DHEA and Preg now anyway as having a 400 3 weeks ago and another 200 this week coupled with gel has probably jacked my E2 and shut down production of the others. What is your total protocol/supplementation? I don't have to take the arg or the Lysine. Just read it somewhere to use those, carnitine, and clen. Type in fat loss on the web and you get jacked by all the options. I checked out Aug and and have reached out to 3js. 3js recommended a carb cycling diet to lose 20 lbs and I am unable to really sector down supps as money is the main player here. hoping to narrow down to a few - good multi, vit b complex, glutamine (after w/o), protein powder, fish oils, a ph (later), and..................... Are you on gel now?

I'm at 250mg/wk for my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), but I'm a little bigger than most. 3J will make a man out of you, I promise.

 

[craigs449]

on a side note, how do you go about getting your doc on board with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? I am 39, done a few PH runs with proper PCT, but would like to get started in the goodies, albeit, due to my employment, I gotta have a legit reason (prescription)........

 

[Austinite]

on a side note, how do you go about getting your doc on board with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? I am 39, done a few PH runs with proper PCT, but would like to get started in the goodies, albeit, due to my employment, I gotta have a legit reason (prescription)........

If you have low T you get treatment. Treatment methods and protocols vary.

 

[halfwit]

on a side note, how do you go about getting your doc on board with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? I am 39, done a few PH runs with proper PCT, but would like to get started in the goodies, albeit, due to my employment, I gotta have a legit reason (prescription)........

What Austinite said. Why would you WANT to be on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) if you don't need it? It's REPLACEMENT, not Testosterone CYCLING Therapy.

 

[craigs449]

What Austinite said. Why would you WANT to be on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) if you don't need it? It's REPLACEMENT, not Testosterone CYCLING Therapy.

What I was getting at is how to bring it up to my doctor.....At 39, I have some of the symptoms of low T, lethargy, not getting as good of workouts that I used to, etc.

I just thought that telling my doctor "I think I have low T and could use some TRT" might sound suspicious......lol