Question for Nelson-ephedra

[DADAWG]

Shouldn't Nelson furnish proof of his claims on the anabolic board?
The guy simply sits back and reiterates how he has 'proof'....yet none to show. Someone on the anabolic board who goes around giving advice on matters they have no experience in, claiming they alone are an authority, claiming they know pros, invented products, came up with ideas FIRST, etc etc....ought to either prove they are what they project themselves to be, or be banned for fraudulent practices.

The lesson here seems to be 'don't question Nelson- at least, dont challenge him to prove his fantastic claims'.
Why? Because he can't.
This isn't flaming, it's valid objection.

listen vg im the one who opened this thread back up . it was locked because of the bullshit and no one wanted to sit here and babysit this thread . i personally think this subject needs to be discussed so i opened it . challenge him with facts all you want TX did and hes a owner here so your dont question nelson statement is bullshit and you know it and i expected better from you , your not a newbie and should know better . stick to the facts in the anabolic forum and the insults in the convo forum . i encourage you to dig up some research and post it to prove nelson wrong or give your own personnal results with ephedrine and opinions of it but calling nelson out constantly is a waste of board space.

 

[DADAWG]

Not for nothing but I really resent DADAWGA statements. You don't want sifu flaming yet you say you're not saying he's WRONG?! I think it's hilareous that this guy is given the benefit of the doubt and I 'm not.

And it's okay for Victorian guy to compare me to a NAZI?

This is bullshit, plain and simple. I would think the administration is also somewhat familiar with my credentials. I do use my own name after all.

nelson i said i wasnt saying he was wrong or right which was my way of staying neutral and just sticking to the rules so i dont care if you resent it or not .

 

[prot]

Does everyone else furnish proof?

Shouldn't Nelson furnish proof of his claims on the anabolic board?
The guy simply sits back and reiterates how he has 'proof'....yet none to show. Someone on the anabolic board who goes around giving advice on matters they have no experience in, claiming they alone are an authority, claiming they know pros, invented products, came up with ideas FIRST, etc etc....ought to either prove they are what they project themselves to be, or be banned for fraudulent practices.

The lesson here seems to be 'don't question Nelson- at least, dont challenge him to prove his fantastic claims'.
Why? Because he can't.
This isn't flaming, it's valid objection.

Seems if anyone questions the status quo opinion they are challenged about "proving it" while hundreds of really uneducated posts go unchallenged.

I am grateful the NM shares his knowledge freely..I can take it or leave it but I always consider it. It is free advice or opinion and if you are not paying for it why be rude? There are many people charging for bad advice ..then you have a right to complain.

I came here from Elite to read more "Montana"....I've seen the opposing views already and I like the balance he presents.

 

[DADAWG]

Re: Does everyone else furnish proof?

Seems if anyone questions the status quo opinion they are challenged about "proving it" while hundreds of really uneducated posts go unchallenged.

I am grateful the NM shares his knowledge freely..I can take it or leave it but I always consider it. It is free advice or opinion and if you are not paying for it why be rude? There are many people charging for bad advice ..then you have a right to complain.

I came here from Elite to read more "Montana"....I've seen the opposing views already and I like the balance he presents.

welcome to the board prot , opposing views are encouraged as long as its done correctly

 

[BiggieSwolls]

I wouldnt really put much stock into what Sifu says, he has been on Nelson's ass for as long as I can remember. He never provides proof of his own on anything, just mainly personal attacks. So he will not be missed.

Nelson, Moderators are here to Moderate, share their opinions and to help out. DADAWG is right in not taking sides, he is simply trying to keep the discussion going in an appropriate manner. I dont know why you feel the need to lash out on him for doing his job but you should re-think your strategy of attacking the administration here because a proteinfactory.com sponsorship does not protect you. We are quite willing to drop any of our sponsors if their representatives cannot act appropriately on the board and I am 100% dead serious about that. Respect is to be GIVEN to our Moderators because we are GIVING a free site to the public.

Now you say VG called you a "nazi". Maybe he's trying to get a rise out of you because I notice you have failed to answer the one question that he continues to bring up. He has asked many times how you can be a "guru" on steroids when you dont have much experience with them. Its not a question that I want answered because I dont care whether you think you are a guru or not, I dont get bothered by petty things like that. But VG has asked you a legitimate question and all I saw from you was a response to him, calling him a "hater" if I remember correctly.

Finally, Nelson, why cant you understand that you are going to be a target at public discussion boards? You are that guy that comes on the boards and says "I did this, so can you, but use these products that I endorse". Im not saying that is wrong, but it makes you a target to people who despise that kind of marketing. Sure, other people do it, but it just seems like you are doing it with a megaphone and forgot to unclick the "repeat" button. Again, none of that is wrong but try to curb your disdain for the Mods who dont sit there and protect you because a company you are affiliated with sponsors the site. Do not bother replying to this post as I will be out all afternoon in meetings. If you have an issue to take up with me, then do so via PM's or email. But understand that I, personally, do not appreciate seeing people questioning my Mods' actions when the actions were completely inline with what we preach as a staff.

 

[koops2121]

I just finished an EC stack (I ditched the A because I heard it's too hard on the body).
Worked great, I've only been off for 2 weeks but I'm looking awesome. Too bad ephies are only 8mg now, stupid government.

 

[Nelson - Montana]

(Quote
Originally posted by BiggieSwolls
I wouldnt really put much stock into what Sifu says, he has been on Nelson's ass for as long as I can remember. He never provides proof of his own on anything, just mainly personal attacks. So he will not be missed.

Nelson, Moderators are here to Moderate, share their opinions and to help out. DADAWG is right in not taking sides, he is simply trying to keep the discussion going in an appropriate manner. I dont know why you feel the need to lash out on him for doing his job but you should re-think your strategy of attacking the administration here because a proteinfactory.com sponsorship does not protect you. We are quite willing to drop any of our sponsors if their representatives cannot act appropriately on the board and I am 100% dead serious about that. Respect is to be GIVEN to our Moderators because we are GIVING a free site to the public.



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I SEE AND RESPECT YOUR POINT BUT IN NO WAY WAS I ATTACKING DADAWG. I JUST THINK IT ODD THAT AN ANTAGONIST SHOULD BE GIVEN THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT WHEN I AM MORE OFTEN ACCUSED OF DISRUPTING A THREAD SIMPLY BECAUSE I WAS CORRECTING SOMEONES FALSE ACCUSATIONS ABOUT ME.




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Now you say VG called you a "nazi". Maybe he's trying to get a rise out of you because I notice you have failed to answer the one question that he continues to bring up. He has asked many times how you can be a "guru" on steroids when you dont have much experience with them. Its not a question that I want answered because I dont care whether you think you are a guru or not, I dont get bothered by petty things like that. But VG has asked you a legitimate question and all I saw from you was a response to him, calling him a "hater" if I remember correctly.


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I NEVER CALLED HIM A HATER. HE COMPARED ME TO GOERBALS. THAT'S A FACT. AND VG DID NOT ASK A LEGIMATE STATEMENT. IT WAS A CONFRONTATION WITH THE PREMISE THAT I'M A LIAR. IF YOU CAN'T SEE THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY. AGAIN, WHY AM I BEING REPREMANDED OVER SOMEONE ELSES DIPICABLE BEHAVIOR? WTF?!?!?!



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Finally, Nelson, why cant you understand that you are going to be a target at public discussion boards? You are that guy that comes on the boards and says "I did this, so can you, but use these products that I endorse".




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NOT TRUE. NEVER SAID THAT. BUT, WHATEVER. I ALSO DON'T MIND BEING A TARGET, AS LONG AS IT'S IN THE MANNER OF A DEBATE. BUT TIME AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN, THESE THREADS BECOME ABOUT ME. ATTACKS ON ME AND MY CREDENTIALS. AND WHEN I RESPOND, I'M IN THE WRONG. SORRY. I'M NOT BACKING UP ON THIS ONE. WRONG IS WRONG. AND THAT IS WRONG.



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Im not saying that is wrong, but it makes you a target to people who despise that kind of marketing. Sure, other people do it, but it just seems like you are doing it with a megaphone and forgot to unclick the "repeat" button. Again, none of that is wrong but try to curb your disdain for the Mods who dont sit there and protect you because a company you are affiliated with sponsors the site.


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WRONG AGAIN. I DON'T EXPECT ANYTHING FROM THE MODS OTHER THAN TO DO THEIR JOB WHICH MOST OF THEM DO VERY WELL. I DON'T NEED ANYONE TO FIGHT MY BATTLES FOR ME. BUT IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE MY BACK COVERED WHEN PEOPLE MAKE UNSUBSTANCIATED ALLEGATIONS ABOUT ME. INSTEAD, THE DOUBT SEEMS TO GO IN THE OTHER DIRECTION AND THE EXPLANATION IS FOLLOWED WITH "WELL NELSON, YOU ASK FOR IT." HELL, YOU DON'T WANT NEW IDEAS WHY ARE WE HERE? LETS JUST ALL AGREE AND GO HOME.




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Do not bother replying to this post as I will be out all afternoon in meetings. If you have an issue to take up with me, then do so via PM's or email. But understand that I, personally, do not appreciate seeing people questioning my Mods' actions when the actions were completely inline with what we preach as a staff.





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Since you posted this publically, I responded publically so everyone knows where I stand. It's important to me since I use my real name and need to defend my reputation knowing how judgements are made from reputation. And reputations can easily be slandered .


Honestly, if the administration has a problem with me, I'll leave. I was under the assumption that my expertise was welcomed. if I'm to be perceived as just a guy who doesn't know what he's talking about and hawks supplements, I don't need it. But pick one. I ask for no special favors. But I don't need to take shit all day long either. I have NEVER attacked ANYONE. But for some reason, I'm fair game . I say that's bullshit. And I think a lot of people would agree.

Sorry Nelson, I edited your post when I thought I was quoting it. I put it back to what it read before

 

[Spartie]

There does seem to be somewhat of a "double-standard" with Nelson. However, i have seen you lash back quite harshly to people like Ulter. Having lived in Manhattan for some time, I can relate to Nelson's "enthusiasm", sales pitch, and personality. I also take what I want and leave the rest behind when it comes to his feedback and "information". We are all adults here (well, many of us) and we should be mature enough and secure enough in our accomplishments to stand strong and rise above flame wars. This post is quite silly, to say the least, and is doing no one any good, unless you enjoy the entertainment value of adults acting like children...but I leave that to Jerry Springer, not www.steroidology.com. I come here to learn, research, provide helpfull feedback and advice, and to share ideas. I assume that is why we are all here?

 

[Milhouse]

My experiences with ephedrine in the past for fat burning were positive.

Unfortunatly I suffer from mild depression and kinda abused my heart in other ways so I choose not to do it anymore

Other then that I highly reccemend it to people in conjuction with proper training and exercise and of course the right eating plan for them

 

[DADAWG]

My experiences with ephedrine in the past for fat burning were positive.

Unfortunatly I suffer from mild depression and kinda abused my heart in other ways so I choose not to do it anymore

Other then that I highly reccemend it to people in conjuction with proper training and exercise and of course the right eating plan for them

nice input millie and its good to you back at ology where you belong

 

[brooklynheight]

i feel the effect of ephedra for about an hour or 2--than i get sleepy

 

[TxLonghorn]

Speaking of ephedra, I was the first to my knowledge to say that aspirin did nothing in the ECA stack. Today many manufacturers admit the same.

This post is not about your credentials or your pics, it's about ephedrine and fatloss. Stop listing your credentials and changing the subject, stick to ephedrine/caffeine. I don't care if you've never been wrong in your life up to this point, what I am concerned about is ephedrine/caffeine.

You've said repeatedly that ephedrine/caffeine doesn't work, and yet the statement above seems to imply that it does. Did you used to think e/c worked for fatloss but have now come to the conclusion that it doesn't? What happened that made you change your mind, if so? And if not, then why were you against aspirin only and not the whole e/c/a stack?

Oh and as for you being 'fair game', everybody on this site is fair game. If I say something that you disagree with, you can say so. I know enough that I'll never be right all the time, and also the last thing I'd want to do is stife discussion on a *discussion* board.

 

[brooklynheight]

i am creator of the greates thread ever

now back to the thread

 

[Nelson - Montana]

This post is not about your credentials or your pics, it's about ephedrine and fatloss. Stop listing your credentials and changing the subject, stick to ephedrine/caffeine. I don't care if you've never been wrong in your life up to this point, what I am concerned about is ephedrine/caffeine.

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THAT'S FUNNY. A COUPLE OF THREADS BACK I WAS SUPPOSED TO STATE MY CREDENTIALS WHEN QUESTIONED, THEN WHEN I DO, I'M TOLD I SHOULDN'T. AGAIN, I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE ELSE SCUTINIZED AND CHASTIZED QUITE LIKE THIS. I MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT.



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You've said repeatedly that ephedrine/caffeine doesn't work, and yet the statement above seems to imply that it does. Did you used to think e/c worked for fatloss but have now come to the conclusion that it doesn't? What happened that made you change your mind, if so? And if not, then why were you against aspirin only and not the whole e/c/a stack?



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YOU ARE SO TERRIBLY CONFUSED I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO ANSWER YOU. I SAID THE FAT LOSS WAS TEMPORARY AND IT SEEMS THAT ALMOST EVERYONE'S EXPERIENCE AGREES WITH THAT. THE OTHERS QUESTIONS DON'T EVEN MAKE SENSE. I SAID ASPIRIN DOESN'T EFFECT IT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. WHAT IS THERE ABOUT THAT STATEMENT THAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND?



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Oh and as for you being 'fair game', everybody on this site is fair game. If I say something that you disagree with, you can say so. I know enough that I'll never be right all the time, and also the last thing I'd want to do is stife discussion on a *discussion* board.

Fair enough. But to my knowledge no one else here is published and no one else here uses their real name. I'm not saying that entitles me to any special treatment. But I don't think it should make me fair game for harrassment. And i do get harrassed more often and for the stupidest reason -- because I've actually accomplished something and people don't want to beliebe it! Fine. I really don't give a shit if some kid in "Bumfuck Nowhere" knows who I am. But it would be nice if certain members of the administartion at least had the guts to tell the truth instead of this obsession with trying to cut me down to size by misinterpreting my posts, intentional or not.

 

[TxLonghorn]

YOU ARE SO TERRIBLY CONFUSED I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO ANSWER YOU.



But it would be nice if certain members of the administartion at least had the guts to tell the truth instead of this obsession with trying to cut me down to size by misinterpreting my posts, intentional or not.

I am not confused in the least. I am now starting to tire of your digs at me. I've kept the flames down from other posters and have not contributed any myself, and yet you try to put in subtle digs at me at every opportunity. I wish you'd stop, otherwise I will have to stop giving you preferential treatment.

I've read study after study that shows the efficacy of ephedrine/caffeine, you've yet to show one that doesn't. You mention you were the first to say aspirin didn't help the e/c stack, implying that it was effective but that aspirin had no effect, otherwise you would've stated that ephedrine/caffeine never worked. That's what I meant in the above post.

Again, I do not appreciate you trying to belittle me on my own board. Let's just say this is the final warning and that you've received more than your fair share of warnings, others just get banned. The only other poster who has received as much leeway as you have is Animal.

I have no obsession with you and only came to this post after asked to because I do have knowledge about ephedrine. I know you'd like me to leave it be, but the fact of the matter is that ephedrine works. If it ceases to work after you stop taking it and you gain the fat back, then the same can be said for anything that gets you to lose fat.

Also, another poster asked about the rise in metabolism, it is in the range of 3-5% with ephedrine/caffeine.

I will sum up the problem I have with your stance on ephedrine/caffeine. It is that it has been proven time and time again to be effective and yet you unblinkingly say it doesn't work. Others who do not have the time to do their own research might mistake your stance as having substance, it does not.

Don't ever call me 'terribly confused' again when you are trying to belittle me or make it appear that I don't know what I'm talking about. I've given you nothing but courtesy and you trample all over me and this board.

 

[rubberduckyo]

Hi, my name is Rachel (just making sure I'm taken seriously here).

I have found the eca stack very effective in helping fat loss. I've yet to find research that says it isn't.

Is it perhaps a placebo effect, Nelson? I'm curious. Would you please show me evidence of it's inefficacy

 

[Nelson - Montana]

I am not confused in the least. I am now starting to tire of your digs at me. I've kept the flames down from other posters and have not contributed any myself, and yet you try to put in subtle digs at me at every opportunity. I wish you'd stop, otherwise I will have to stop giving you preferential treatment.


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I GET PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT?




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I've read study after study that shows the efficacy of ephedrine/caffeine, you've yet to show one that doesn't. You mention you were the first to say aspirin didn't help the e/c stack, implying that it was effective but that aspirin had no effect, otherwise you would've stated that ephedrine/caffeine never worked. That's what I meant in the above post.


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YES, ASPIRIN HAS NO EFFECT IN WHAT EPHEDRA DOES. I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE MISUNDERSTANDING LIES. EPHEDRA DOES SOMETHING. IT JUST ISN'T A VERY GOOD FAT BURNER AND IT HAS SIDE EFFECTS. I THOUGHT THAT WAS CLEAR. GUESS NOT.






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Again, I do not appreciate you trying to belittle me on my own board. Let's just say this is the final warning and that you've received more than your fair share of warnings, others just get banned. The only other poster who has received as much leeway as you have is Animal.


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I NEVER MEANT TO BELITTLE YOU. BUT I DISAGREE WITH YOU.



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I have no obsession with you and only came to this post after asked to because I do have knowledge about ephedrine. I know you'd like me to leave it be, but the fact of the matter is that ephedrine works. If it ceases to work after you stop taking it and you gain the fat back, then the same can be said for anything that gets you to lose fat.

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I HAVE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT EPHEDRINE AS WELL. MAYBE MORE THAN YOU.



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Also, another poster asked about the rise in metabolism, it is in the range of 3-5% with ephedrine/caffeine. I will sum up the problem I have with your stance on ephedrine/caffeine. It is that it has been proven time and time again to be effective and yet you unblinkingly say it doesn't work. Others who do not have the time to do their own research might mistake your stance as having substance, it does not.



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THIS IS WHAT I TAKE OFFENSE TO. YOU'RE ASERTING THAT PEOPLE WHO LISTEN TO ME WILL BE MAKING A MISTAKE, MEANWHILE PEOPLE WHO LISTEN TO YOU WILL BE PROPERLY INFORMED. WHY IS YOUR OPINION WORTH MORE THAN MINE? AND ANOTHER THING ...I SEE SOME UNBELIEVABLY IRRESPONSIBLE ADVICE GIVIN ON THIS BOARD EVERY DAY AND NOBODY BLINKS. I TRY TO OFFER A SAFER, HEALTHIER ALTERNATIVE TO SOMETHING THAT IS ESSENTIUALLY A LOUSY DRUG BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION , AND I GET MY BALLS BROKEN. GO FIGURE.


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[prot]

some confusion exists but I believe NM said it worked but there was a "rebound" effect whereby fat was often regained after cessation of taking ephedra. Unfortunately many people do not cease taking it until they have damaged their heart. It does work, although not as well as thyroid meds because they raise body temp to a greater degree...it does suppress appetite. It is not a placebo effect. It does ibncrease heart rate and, thus, metabolism..this is ultimately a curse if used regularly and can damage the heart...The purpose of losing body fat can be cosmetic or as a health pursuit.. The use of ephedra and ephedrine is not a "healthy" pursuit. I did not believe this until after using ephedrine for awhile and my heart rate became "exhausting"..and I only used it casually..before workouts. However, as. Mr. Montana say, there are thousands addicted to it and declining in health daily and in grave danger. It is not a casual thing.

 

[rubberduckyo]

some confusion exists but I believe NM said it worked but there was a "rebound" effect whereby fat was often regained after cessation of taking ephedra. Unfortunately many people do not cease taking it until they have damaged their heart. It does work, although not as well as thyroid meds because they raise body temp to a greater degree...it does suppress appetite. It is not a placebo effect. It does ibncrease heart rate and, thus, metabolism..this is ultimately a curse if used regularly and can damage the heart...The purpose of losing body fat can be cosmetic or as a health pursuit.. The use of ephedra and ephedrine is not a "healthy" pursuit. I did not believe this until after using ephedrine for awhile and my heart rate became "exhausting"..and I only used it casually..before workouts. However, as. Mr. Montana say, there are thousands addicted to it and declining in health daily and in grave danger. It is not a casual thing.

I would NEVER recommend the use of thyroxin to anyone just trying to lose body fat. EVER.

As for the inefficacy of the eca stack I'm still waiting for Nelson's relative studies on it. I can't find a thing.

 

[brooklynheight]

I think most bb'r people no longer use the A in the eca.

correct?