Question for those who suggest Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during cycle

[bigjohn79]

Question for those who suggest HCG during cycle

I agree what you guys are saying regarding the "boys" shrinking during cycle however, if your testes remain the same size during cycle that doesnt necc. mean that shutdown of production as been altered any less, for instance when hitting a strong PCT, after 1 week ur testes go back to natural size or close.. does this mean your HTPA is back 100% no. If this is what your trying to do, why not just start HCG 1 week before you start post cycle therapy (pct). HCg's main focus is to "minic" LH, this makes it not the perfect compound to combat test suppression just atropy. HCG just shocks them out of atrophy which happens quickly during PCT, but has no effect on the blocking of inhibition on the hypothalmas , this is done by your antiestrogens....so if anything this theory would make more sense if you ran antiestrogens during cycle as opposed to Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)? I have always ran HCG started 1 week before I start my post cycle therapy (pct) with nolva. This works because the HCG gives your testes a shock, which gets them ready for post cycle therapy (pct) with Nolvadex which will actually return test levels to norm.


< I had posted this as a reply on a prior thread but was never answered,just wanted to shine some light on this...thanks>

 

[TxLonghorn]

I have absolutely no idea of what you are trying to say.

 

[bigjohn79]

What I am trying to question is the use of HCG during cycle? I mean of a person just wants to feel comfortable with their balls normal size 100% during cycle thats fine I guess. But with the info I provided there shows little correlation between running hcg during cycle and a more succesful pCt, as opposed to just starting HCG 1 week before post cycle therapy (pct) with nolvadex or clomid.

 

[Green888]

i sprinkle it on my cornflakes for max nut-growth !

 

[bigjohn79]

Does anyone have a logical/scientifical answer to my question?

 

[bluewizz]

Does anyone have a logical/scientifical answer to my question?

they only logical and not scientific reasoning ive heard is the fact that BECAUSE hcg will maintain testes size, then post cycle therapy (pct) ROCOVERY should occur in a faster rate, but im not sure i believe that. becasue like u said hcg will mimic lh thus signaling the body to produce natural amounts of hormones...like test....estrogen...and yes PROGESTERONE! so my guess is that the bodys own ability to output lh will be greatly suppresses just as the nat. test levels will be during steroid cycles. i know that especially in this board, the hcg is highly recomended, atleast by some, to be used 500-750 iu every 4 days to 5.....DURING THE WHOLE CYCLE, whatever cycle u r doing. but i have not heard similar recomendations anywhere else. WHY is that?

im obviously extremely interested as to the benefits hcg COULD give if used during cycles, thats why im surely going to mcmaster universities medical library to do some research. ill photocopy and post anything i find about hcg.

 

[bigjohn79]

I understand the point they are trying to prove, but natural test production will still be shutdown during your cycle due to the injection/ingestion of syntheics, so why not just wait until 1 week from starting post cycle therapy (pct) to get them back to natural with a regular dosage of 1000ius EOD. Dont let the size of the testes fool you into thinking your nat test system is any less suppressed as if they were small. This method would make more sense just started at normal dose 1-2 weeks before post cycle therapy (pct) is started then let nolva and clomid take over. Not to mention studies have shown that if HCG is used over a long period of time HCG may actuall act to desensitize the Leydigs cells to luteinizing hormone, which would further hinder a return to homeostatis..

 

[bigjohn79]

wow, many of you practice this method, but cant answer these questions?

 

[bluewizz]

wow, many of you practice this method, but cant answer these questions?

lets hear from the experts how hcg during cycle has worked for them. have you recovered in the post cycle after long hcg use?

 

[macgyver_48]

bump for answer

 

[bigjohn79]

HCG is intended to usher in the return of natural testosterone production... so why it would be used throughout the course of a cycle, where natural testosterone production is not necessary, is beyond me. It sounds counterproductive , not to mention a huge waste of money. I would imagine the constant administration of HCG throughout the course of a cycle would cause the testicles to become numbed to the effects of luteinizing hormone. If this occurs (which it definitely will if HCG is taken straight for 8 or more weeks), the very purpose of HCG is nullified (considering luteinizing hormone is responsible for triggering natural, homeostatic testosterone production). Would have been better off not taking any in the first place, rather than spending extra money to essentially nullify the beneficial effect of the drug.

I have given my ideas.... and facts.... im waiting....

 

[JohnnyB]

HCG does mimic LH but doses over 500iu have a high chance of upping estrogen as well. The idea behind HCG during a cycle is to keep the boys alive. This way when you start post cycle therapy (pct) that part of the process is not a factor.

So it boils down to what ever you think is best for you, if you don't want to do post cycle therapy (pct) at all, that's your decision not mine. We all need to research for ourselves come up with what we think is best and go with it. You don't have to follow any suggestion given here or anywhere else for the matter. It's your body and you'll decide what you'll do and what you won't do.

I look at it this way, What is easier to do, maintain a tire with air or fix a flat? I like maintaining the tires with air, if you like fixing flat, it's ok with me cause I'm not fixing it, if you like maintaining the tires with it still ok cause I'm not doing that either, I'm maintaining my own. If you get a flat don't ask me how to fix it either

Every body is different, so we need to find what works for us and go with it. This isn't a dogmatic issue that needs to be debated to see who's right and who's wrong.

If you like going 10 days @ 1000iu or 2500iu e5d then post cycle therapy (pct) go for it. I know what I feel comfortable with and that's what I do.

Now if you were to ask me I'd say go 500iu every 3-4 day through the cycle.

JohnnyB

 

[tommy_big_guns]

the hcg I get is all in 1500 iu amps can u get it in other sizes?

 

[Mudge]

Yes, 1500, 2000, 5000, 10,000?

I have had 1500, 2000, and 5000. Not sure about 10k or 15k in a single amp but I am relatively certain 10k exists.

 

[bigjohn79]

This really didnt explain much, but ok, not much science behind it, but whatever floats ur boat. Getting ur boys fixed and getting ur HTPA are shown to different mechnaisms at work....HCG is not intended to bring back nat test, and once again why not just start this method 1-2 weeks prior to PCT, there is no logical reasoning behind running it the same cycle, if u can get the 'boys' ready to go within 1-2 weeks after PCT.

 

[StoneColdNTO]

This really didnt explain much, but ok, not much science behind it, but whatever floats ur boat. Getting ur boys fixed and getting ur HTPA are shown to different mechnaisms at work....HCG is not intended to bring back nat test, and once again why not just start this method 1-2 weeks prior to PCT, there is no logical reasoning behind running it the same cycle, if u can get the 'boys' ready to go within 1-2 weeks after post cycle therapy (pct).

Screw the science.........try using some common sense !!

It is better to use HCG throughout the cycle to prevent testicular atrophy in the first place, think of it as preventitive maintenence.

 

[KMACK]

THANK YOU!

 

[bigjohn79]

I think your confusing size of testicles with testicular function. How is this for common sense...

1)if HCG is used over a long period of time HCG may actuall act to desensitize the Leydigs cells to luteinizing hormone, which would further hinder a return to homeostatis..

Now I am not the one that is using common sense... its right there for you...."counterproductive"

 

[macgyver_48]

swale's post cycle therapy (pct) thread:
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22584

 

[macgyver_48]

so this is the way i understand it, but i'm really not sure if i'm saying this right so pls experts review this. taking hcg thru the cycle maintains testicular form AND function, so that the testes will be fully capable of responding to LH. At the end of your cycle u bridge from HCG to Nolvadex. Nolvadex raises brings LH back to normal levels, thereby creating more endogenous testosterone. This supposedly would happen faster because the testes are already at a fully functioning state.