Resurrecting Old School Pyramiding

DocJ

New member
After I had my first couple years of cycling under my belt I started noticing a trend whenever I went on a new cycle. I always experienced great gains for approximately 4-6 week after everything "kicked in" but then gains came VERY slowly or almost non-existant in some cases. I'm wonder if bringing back pyramiding has any merit. We all know pyramiding down isn't very useful but maybe pyramiding up would be. Something like this comes to mind...
Solo Test Cycle:
Week 1-12: Test Enanthate 500mg/week
Week 4-6: Test Prop 200mg/week
Week 6-8: Test Prop 300mg/week
Week 8-10: Test Prop 400mg/week
Week 10-12: Test Prop 500mg/week

Comments?
 
I do it

I am doing this right now and it is working.

Without going into too much detail, I used test enan, EQ, and Tren ace, the first ten weeks.
Stopped making much gains about this time. I started using 50 mg
of test prop 5 days a week. I don't inject it on my test enan and EQ days(Mon and Sun). My strength and weight are going up slowly, but most of all my body looks better. I don't know what my BF% is, but I know its very low and its just getting better. I have had more positive comments about my body in the last four weeks than I have every had.
I don't know how much of this strategy is actually working, but if its the placebo effect I will still take it any way I can get it! LOL
 
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I like the idea. It's not only that there may be some scientific merit to it, but I think it's a good way to keep motivated. You have something to look forward to.
 
I do see merit in pyramiding down. You are still shut down the entire time and gains will be less apparent towards the end. But it allows me to gradually get used to the numbers in the gym and the scale dropping. I feel much better than if I were to come off full steam and crash down to nothing during PCT. Perhaps just mental, or perhaps biologically it makes sense to ease your body back down to normal hormone levels. I will say that changes in mood as well as acne decrease to nonexistant for me in doing this as well. Before I would get some acne breakout during post cycle therapy (pct) and feel a little moody. Perhaps that is what happens when you go from a 1g+ of gear a week to nothing within a couple weeks. Bouncing back during post cycle therapy (pct) seems to come quicker after pyramiding down also. Without doing so, it normally took me atleast three weeks to feel like things were normalized. Now it takes me just a couple weeks before I feel that way. I still run a full post cycle therapy (pct) regimine regardless though. Like I said could just be mental, but if it works go for it. I've never tried pyramiding up, never thought it worthwhile so I can't speak for that though.
 
bleachcola said:
I do see merit in pyramiding down. You are still shut down the entire time and gains will be less apparent towards the end. But it allows me to gradually get used to the numbers in the gym and the scale dropping. I feel much better than if I were to come off full steam and crash down to nothing during post cycle therapy (pct). Perhaps just mental, or perhaps biologically it makes sense to ease your body back down to normal hormone levels. I will say that changes in mood as well as acne decrease to nonexistant for me in doing this as well. Before I would get some acne breakout during post cycle therapy (pct) and feel a little moody. Perhaps that is what happens when you go from a 1g+ of gear a week to nothing within a couple weeks. Bouncing back during post cycle therapy (pct) seems to come quicker after pyramiding down also. Without doing so, it normally took me atleast three weeks to feel like things were normalized. Now it takes me just a couple weeks before I feel that way. I still run a full post cycle therapy (pct) regimine regardless though. Like I said could just be mental, but if it works go for it. I've never tried pyramiding up, never thought it worthwhile so I can't speak for that though.



Pleas describe your pyramiding method.
 
Insane_Man said:
Pleas describe your pyramiding method.

Nothing real technical. This past cycle I did Test by itself. Ran a gram/wk for a few months. Then cut it down to 750mg/wk for 2-3 weeks, then 500, then 250. Didn't really have a set plan down on paper. But I notice my body prefers this method over my typical past routines of taking a gram of gear or so for some months, stopping the long esthers and then using a short esther (test prop or tren ace) or an oral for the 2-3 weeks waiting for the long esther to clear.
 
LiftTillIDie said:
Using tren ace at the end of a long ester cycle seems counterproductive in terms of shutdown.

I never really had a problem with tren. It remains my favorite steroid to this day. And any time I used it at the end of a cycle it was bc I was using tren enanthate for the regular part of the cycle. So prob didn't make a difference anyway.
 
bleachcola said:
I never really had a problem with tren. It remains my favorite steroid to this day. And any time I used it at the end of a cycle it was bc I was using tren enanthate for the regular part of the cycle. So prob didn't make a difference anyway.

I've just heard so much about tren shutting your down "harder" and the shutdown lasting longer that I'm weary of going straight from tren to pct.
 
LiftTillIDie said:
I've just heard so much about tren shutting your down "harder" and the shutdown lasting longer that I'm weary of going straight from tren to pct.

Depends on the person I guess. If you've had problems in the past or are at an advanced stage in life it might be wise to stay away.
 
bleachcola said:
Depends on the person I guess. If you've had problems in the past or are at an advanced stage in life it might be wise to stay away.

I also hear conflicting info on this, some say stay away from tren if you're old because you'll be shutdown too hard but others advise young guys like myself to not to use it because of increased risk for permanent shutdown. Like you said it all comes down to the individual.
 
bleachcola said:
I do see merit in pyramiding down. You are still shut down the entire time and gains will be less apparent towards the end. But it allows me to gradually get used to the numbers in the gym and the scale dropping. I feel much better than if I were to come off full steam and crash down to nothing during post cycle therapy (pct). Perhaps just mental, or perhaps biologically it makes sense to ease your body back down to normal hormone levels. I will say that changes in mood as well as acne decrease to nonexistant for me in doing this as well. Before I would get some acne breakout during post cycle therapy (pct) and feel a little moody. Perhaps that is what happens when you go from a 1g+ of gear a week to nothing within a couple weeks. Bouncing back during post cycle therapy (pct) seems to come quicker after pyramiding down also. Without doing so, it normally took me atleast three weeks to feel like things were normalized. Now it takes me just a couple weeks before I feel that way. I still run a full post cycle therapy (pct) regimine regardless though. Like I said could just be mental, but if it works go for it. I've never tried pyramiding up, never thought it worthwhile so I can't speak for that though.
In theory this makes sense but then again so does my reasoning for pyramiding up. With long esters you probably wouldn't need to keep your pyramid down dosages at that level for more than 1-2 weeks though as you have to wait for the long ester to clear your system in order to start post cycle therapy (pct) anyways. So....maybe something like this would make more sense overall:
Week 1-12: Test Enanthate 500mg/week
Week 4-6: Test Prop 200mg/week
Week 6-8: Test Prop 300mg/week
Week 8-10: Test Prop 400mg/week
Week 10-12: Test Prop 500mg/week
Week 13-14: Test Prop 200mg/week
Week 14-15: Test Prop 100mg/week
 
The act of pyramiding has no valid basis. Introducing the androgen into the body at a lower concentration and then increasing the dose doesn’t allow the body to become "accustomed" to the exogenous compounds in any way.

Furthermore, tapering off only prolongs the time it'll take to regain HPTA functioning. Taking the lower dosages causes LH suppression yet barely provides any anabolic effect, perhaps none at all! So, if you’re a person who likes to get LH suppression with minimal gains, go ahead and "pyramid."

Cy Wilson
 
StoneColdNTO said:
Furthermore, tapering off only prolongs the time it'll take to regain HPTA functioning. Taking the lower dosages causes LH suppression yet barely provides any anabolic effect, perhaps none at all! So, if you’re a person who likes to get LH suppression with minimal gains, go ahead and "pyramid."

Cy Wilson
This is what I've always thought as well...hence my first post. The problem is that he's completely disregarding the nervous system. The nervous system needs to acclimate to the increased strength induced by the cycle, this doesn't happen overnight. Most people just get around this by doing longer and longer cycles but that's impractical in the long run. From a purely HPTA standpoint though? Yes, point taken.
 
Tapering is a Waste of Time

Typical cycles are designed in a tapered fashion, starting low and slowly rising to the maximum dose. Once the maximum dose is reached, these cycles begin to steadily decline in dose to reach a very small amount at the end. The theory behind these cycles is as follows: At the start of the program, the body doesn't require much in the way of
anabolics to grow. As the cycle progresses and growth occurs, more steroid is needed to maintain growth. At the peak of the cycle, the amount of steroid is slowly decreased to allow the body to return to a normal hormonal state. This ensures that the body does not experience a shock as the endogenous production of androgens has been restored
through the gradual tapering of exogenous androgens.

Unfortunately, this theory of cycling is flawed. Designing cycles in this fashion usually ensures that the optimum level of steroid to induce growth is only present in the body for a short period. Most of the cycle is either spent climbing towards this goal or retreating
from it in the hopes of restoring the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis.

When designing a cycle, the very first question that must be answered is what is the peak mg amount of steroid that will be used during the course of the program. This amount of steroid should be used for most of the cycle, with little fluctuation at the beginning and end. This ensures that an adequate dose of steroid is being used to induce
growth throughout the length of the cycle.

Concerns over maintaining or restoring proper function of the
hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis (HPTA) are easily addressed via the use of a variety of pharmaceuticals. Once endogenous production of androgens has been halted due to excessive levels of androgens in the blood, the only effective methods of restoring normal hormonal function is by cleaning out or the use of pharmaceuticalslike clomiphen or HCG. Tapering to restore normal hormonal function is a waste of time since it can easily be restored using these drugs.

TAPERING CYCLES IS BULLSHIT
Any amount of injected testosterone (or its derivatives) in the amount required to produce gains is going to shut down your natural production. Studies show sterility(temporarily, guys and gals) at dosages around 200 mg of testosterone per week, from which you can assume that your natural testosterone production has come to a halt.
Keeping this fact in mind, you need to find the weekly dosage of hormones you want to use to get your gains and stick to it throughout your cycle. Now granted receptor sites are being occupied and only a small portion of them are becoming "free". Think of it like a
parking garage. When the movie is showing the garage is packed, but a few people will trickle out early opening spots for the few desperately circling cars. If you had extremely limited amounts of drugs you could load up your sites with a great deal of drugs then use
very small amounts to fill up those open receptors as they become available. This is impractical. Your best option is find a weekly dosage of androgens (say 750 mg per week) and keep on it for the 6-8 weeks you are on. You may want to switch esters of the drugs (esters generally change solubility and absorption time) as your cycle nears its end so that you can be sure when the drugs are out of your system, but that's about it. Let your "helper" drugs like HCG, clomid and nolvadex get your body back online.
Non-testosterone drugs, like nandrolone (trade name deca-durabolin) or trenbolone acetate (parabolan-want to buy some…here the best thing to do…build a time machine and travel back to the 1980s because that was the last time it was manufactured…) absolutely should not be tapered in my opinion.
 
Yes, I fully agree with all the conventionally held thoughts on pyramiding down. I'm not trying to contest their reasoning or anything. I am just saying that pyramiding down makes me feel and look much better than if I were to stop all at once. I don't feel like I hit a brick wall in my training and what not when I come off, it's more gradual and allows me to get used to decreased strength and having lower androgen levels in my body. And as I admit above, it may be completely in my mind. But when I look at the fact that I don't experience any acne or the post cycle therapy (pct) blues coming off this way, it makes me wonder if there is some sort of biological/physical benefit to letting your body gradually get used to lower androgen levels.
 
You're all still discussing this solely from the standpoint of the HPTA, there's more to it then that...

Also, some are posting as if there's a set optimum dose for maximal gains in a cycle for everyone. I'd argue it's a more broad spectrum. Personally, continuing to use test as an example, my spectrum goes like this:

Gains: good(800mg/week)->->->->excellent(1200mg/week)

with a sides spectrum of: mild(800mg/week)->->->->moderate(1200mg/week).
 
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DocJ said:
You're all still discussing this solely from the standpoint of the HPTA, there's more to it then that...

Also, some are posting as if there's a set optimum dose for maximal gains in a cycle for everyone. I'd argue it's a more broad spectrum. Personally, continuing to use test as an example, my spectrum goes like this:

Gains: good(800mg/week)->->->->excellent(1200mg/week)

with a sides spectrum of: mild(800mg/week)->->->->moderate(1200mg/week).

And what happens as you continue to go up?
 
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