Some dude had a stroke and died at my gym today...was active gear user

[Calibucsfan]

Some dude had a stroke and died at my gym today(UPDATE: CAUSE OF DEATH ON PAGE 2)

Hello fellow Juice Heads...

So just like the title says, a dude I know was on the curl machine and collapsed. Now half the people are freaking out including myself because we all know this dude was always running cycles. He was about 29 years old.


I figured I would share this and my concerns with you guys since a lot of you know the science behind roids. So to start of my first question is, what exactly links gear to heart attacks or strokes?? And is there things you should do while on a cycle to protect your heart? The cause of death has not been determined so there is nothing official but everyone is thinking it was the gear....but then again no one knew what he did outside the gym if he did recreational drugs or not.

My next question is, how your body holds up goes back to your genetics correct? Its like the concept how some dude can run 1 test only cycle and get shut down permanently and then you got other guys who abuse orals for years and are just fine.....genetics is what it comes down to am I right? And how your heart holds up against this I'm guessing also goes back to genetics? I am trying to make myself feel better about this but I ran a total of 3 cycles and recovered each time just fine, theoretically I should be fine right?(and feel free to burst my bubble)


And last question is, how crucial is bloodwork? I been a long time lurker and noticed you guys all get bloodwork done. I have ran all my cycles correct except for the part where I get bloodwork done. I have never done this, how crucial is it and what do you benefit from it?

Thanks bros

 

[urameshi]

Just going to share my experience, not saying any of this as this caused this just simply stating the facts.

I am 32 years old and have run 4 cycles so far, heart disease does run in my family and last October I had 2 heart attacks within 10 days of each other. Since then I have been put on diuretics, beta blockers, BP medicine, etc.
I now check my BP everyday, eat a ton of fish, cut out salt, etc. and seem to be doing ok.
Also worth mentioning that when I had my heart attacks I was on a cycle of 400mg/deca/w and 500mg/test/w

My cardiologist and GP both said that I would have had the heart attacks anyway at one point but much later in life. So the steroids more than likely accelerated and led to them happening when they did.

 

[meatmonkey]

The stickies here will answer most of your questions. As for the guy who passed away, could have been many, many things completely unrelated to gear use...

 

[Calibucsfan]

Just going to share my experience, not saying any of this as this caused this just simply stating the facts.

I am 32 years old and have run 4 cycles so far, heart disease does run in my family and last October I had 2 heart attacks within 10 days of each other. Since then I have been put on diuretics, beta blockers, BP medicine, etc.
I now check my BP everyday, eat a ton of fish, cut out salt, etc. and seem to be doing ok.
Also worth mentioning that when I had my heart attacks I was on a cycle of 400mg/deca/w and 500mg/test/w

My cardiologist and GP both said that I would have had the heart attacks anyway at one point but much later in life. So the steroids more than likely accelerated and led to them happening when they did.

So basically, you would of got the heart attacks regardless because of your family history but just much later in life....interesting

 

[Black Beard]

Keep an eye on BP and hematocrit mostly. Cholesterol too. Androgens/estrogen can have powerful effects on all the systems in the body.

 

[carverelli]

I wouldn't say bloodwork is crucial to every cycle, but how else do you know how hour body metabolizes and reacts to differnt compounds without a baseline( before cycle) and a midcycle bloodwork. Several things seem to me to be of utmost importance if you use aas quite a bit

-hemocrit levels
- blood pressure
- estrogen levels
- lipids and cholesterol


...did I leave anything out?

Yes I did ..... Liver enzymes can get quite high if yur running 1 gram + of inj or most orals

 

[Calibucsfan]

Keep an eye on BP and hematocrit mostly. Cholesterol too. Androgens/estrogen can have powerful effects on all the systems in the body.

I'm guessing this is the part where Bloodwork should be done each cycle

 

[Calibucsfan]

What I cant figure out is how I know dudes at the gym who have been on a cruise and blast for 2+ years and walk around just fine(and I know that we don't know whats happening in their bodies)..

Or how this group in my gym which we call the douche bag group all abuse the hell out of it and party like hell and also walk around fine. By abuse, I mean these dudes run pure orals and never take breaks and I see these same dudes taking 151 shots at the club. I even seen them snort coke at times. On the other hand when I go to the club I just ask the bartender for a cup of water so it looks like I got a cup of vodka in my hand when in reality I am sober as hell......but anyways my point is the majority of people who use gear don't really know how to run it right and end up abusing it without knowing it. Thank god I stumbled upon these forums one day and learned how to run gear the right way....but my overall point is how is it that you got guys like I mentioned above that are just stupid but are fine and you got others who know what their doing and take care of themselves but get a stroke...

 

[STAUNCHED427]

And last question is, how crucial is bloodwork? I been a long time lurker and noticed you guys all get bloodwork done. I have ran all my cycles correct except for the part where I get bloodwork done. I have never done this, how crucial is it and what do you benefit from it?

Firstly, AAS may or may not have anything to do with it, but if he was abusing like you said it probably would have played a role. Read on for my opinion on this.

Very crucial, no doubt based on what you said this bloke was recklessly abusing AAS. I would say Haematacrit/RBC would have played a major role in this... AAS increase RBC count over-time thickening the blood so you either need to donate/have blood drawn to lower it. High RBC puts extra stress on the organs and heart, making it have to pump harder. IMO, it's the increase in HCT that people do not control that is the biggest problem from AAS use and cause for heart problems...

Genetics will also play a role, obviously some people can get away with abusing AAS and still live maybe cutting their life span a few years short, some people like urameshi who have a family history of cardiovascular diesease well it is safe to assume AAS won't be tolerated as well by someone with pre-exisiting potential problems. This bloke who died may have had a pre-exisiting heart condition and AAS abuse just aggravated it. Throwing in recreational drugs, in specific stimulants like cocaine, amphetamine/MDMA is something I see first hand by AAS users and these people are no doubt not going to live a very healthy life in the future. Not to say this guy was dabling in rec. drugs, but you never know.

Then again, AAS may not have played a roll (most, most likely did though) and like said earlier he could have been predisposed to heart disease and was going to experience it soon.

Moral of the story, if you are going to use AAS/TRT you must get bloods done on a regular basis, our bodies are not machines and need to be looked after. Without health we are nothing. The big things to look out for in my eyes would be...

1) Increased Haematocrit, all AAS will do so, EQ is known to be notorious for jacking it up quite well. Apart from not using AAS, making sure you donate blood (if your on shit try to have it dumped) or get a phlebotomy to lower it back into range. Like I said, I think this is the biggest problem from AAS use due to the effects it will have on your heart long term.

2) Lipid changes from 17aa (Oral) Steroids, combined with thick blood ^^^ and a shit house lipid profile, in addition to high BP if you're not keeping check on it and running a lot of stuff and extra muscle mass than what the human body was ever meant to hold, well picture that. It's a recipe for disaster.

3) Estrogen not being controlled, high e2 can lead to a host of problems, high BP, prostate cancer I could sit here all day but the main point is if you are going to use AAS, you must get bloodwork and take the appropriate measures to use them properly. Of course you can take all the measures you want and you may still suffer side effects but that comes with the territory of AAS use, how you go about dealing with them and responsible use is what it is all about.

What I cant figure out is how I know dudes at the gym who have been on a cruise and blast for 2+ years and walk around just fine(and I know that we don't know whats happening in their bodies)..

Or how this group in my gym which we call the douche bag group all abuse the hell out of it and party like hell and also walk around fine. By abuse, I mean these dudes run pure orals and never take breaks and I see these same dudes taking 151 shots at the club. I even seen them snort coke at times. On the other hand when I go to the club I just ask the bartender for a cup of water so it looks like I got a cup of vodka in my hand when in reality I am sober as hell......but anyways my point is the majority of people who use gear don't really know how to run it right and end up abusing it without knowing it. Thank god I stumbled upon these forums one day and learned how to run gear the right way....but my overall point is how is it that you got guys like I mentioned above that are just stupid but are fine and you got others who know what their doing and take care of themselves but get a stroke...

Everyone is different, chances are these guys are blast/cruising without blood work and may seem fine on the outside, but bloodwork may tell a different story. You can't exactly judge someones health by appearance, jacked up haematocrit, high BP, high e2... Some guys just don't notice or have any sides from it, until they drop dead. Ofcourse, not everyone is reckless but there are more abusers that don't consider their health than they think.

The douche bag group you refer too, I have seen there people first hand abusers of AAS/recreational stimulants (MDMA) in particular which itself is shown to cause cardiac hypertrophy, couple that with AAS there couldn't be a worse combo IMO. Don't be fooled by appearance, like I said bloodwork will show a different story in those people.

Steroidology is a godsend if you ask me, the amount of harm minimisation this forum has bought upon people is priceless. If it wasn't for the internet who knows what half of us would be doing.

 

[Calibucsfan]

Thank you STAUNCHED427, that was a very informative post.

I am not trying to come off as stupid but how do you control Haematacrit/RBC/Lipids?
Also I don't understand why you need to donate blood while on a cycle, can you break this down for me? And wouldn't I just be giving someone else dirty blood?(assuming gear in blood makes it dirty).
And as far as orals, I run none except for Nolva/Clomid.

And also where do I find a clinic that will do bloodwork and actually assist you during your cycle by telling you where your levels are at and what you need to do.............because I know for a fact if I go to my doctor at the hospital I will just get a long lecture about gear

 

[STAUNCHED427]

No worries dude, if only some idiots on here would go to the extent and read up more instead of bashing, they might get something out of it.

No such thing as a stupid question, no one was born with knowledge it must be learnt

Haematocrit/RBC can't exactly be controlled in the sense of stopping it from rising, it is an effect from all AAS some more so than others mg for mg (EQ being one that is well-known to jack up RBC). The way you control it is by donating blood (smart idea would be to have it dumped if you are donating it on cycle and on heavy compounds, there is varying opinions on whether or not enough blood is drawn and if there is enough of the hormone with that drawn blood and then subsequently diluted when put into someone else's body whether it will affect them, then there is the filtering process but anyway), or having blood drawn and dumped (phlebotomy) which your doctor should be able to organise. There are some people who draw it themselves and dump it, definitely do not attempt this though. Also, stopping AAS (say finishing up a heavy cycle that jacked your RBC right up), doing a PCT then staying off AAS you have to wait for RBC to naturally drop down to normal levels so they are still elevated for some time after stopping, which again is why you should donate.

Lipid profile being trashed, is a result of oral steroids as well as sometimes a result of Adex/Letro but can also happen when you start doing high doses even on injectables.

Some doctors are alright if you go in and explain your are using AAS and need bloodwork, I know there are private labs you can get blood work done at as well but my doc monitors me for TRT anyway so my ass is covered in that area.

 

[Calibucsfan]

Great info once again.

I am still having a hard time understanding the whole dumping the blood thing. I get why it needs to be done. What I dont get is how do I go about doing it? And how do I know if I need to have it dumped, and how much?? (I am assuming its based off the bloodwork) But do the doctors at the clinics help you with all that?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Well you would check your Haematocrit/RBC count via a blood test, if it is jacked up beyond the given normal ranges you should consider donating/dumping blood to lower it... (Blood is made up of HCT) so dump blood you dump HCT.

 

[Calibucsfan]

Well you would check your Haematocrit/RBC count via a blood test, if it is jacked up beyond the given normal ranges you should consider donating/dumping blood to lower it... (Blood is made up of HCT) so dump blood you dump HCT.

And where do you get it dumped at?? Same place you get the bloodwork done at?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Yep, same place. Talk to your doc about it.

 

[Calibucsfan]

Yep, same place. Talk to your doc about it.

I think i know the answer to this but based of he bloodwork the doctor will know how much to dump right?

 

[Black Beard]

Staunched gave a really awesome In-depth explanation and answered pretty much everything


Basically, You donate blood. They take a set amount. That amount may or may not be enough to bring your levels down. If it is not, then you may just have to donate more regularly than someone else. If you keep it in check from the start, it will be a lot easier to manage than if you let it get out of hand. The other choice is getting the blood drawn for therapeutic purposes, the cost of that will come out of your pocket. Blood donation is free for you and you get to help the community. You also get free cookies

 

[Calibucsfan]

Staunched gave a really awesome In-depth explanation and answered pretty much everything


Basically, You donate blood. They take a set amount. That amount may or may not be enough to bring your levels down. If it is not, then you may just have to donate more regularly than someone else. If you keep it in check from the start, it will be a lot easier to manage than if you let it get out of hand. The other choice is getting the blood drawn for therapeutic purposes, the cost of that will come out of your pocket. Blood donation is free for you and you get to help the community. You also get free cookies

Cool. And I don't think its been quite a year since I had my last tattoo done....and I know they wont let you donate blood if it hasn't been a certain amount of time. And I don't want to lie to them to save some money...

Last question is what can I expect Test and Primo to do to my blood levels? I am planning on running a 16 week cycle starting first week of May for 16 weeks....because everything I read on Primo says 16 weeks is a minimum. Staunched said EQ is known for raising your levels like crazy so I am wondering if I should watch out for anything while on Primo.

 

[Moppy1]

baby aspirin every day is a very good idea as well.

 

[Strong Man]

Hello fellow Juice Heads...

So just like the title says, a dude I know was on the curl machine and collapsed. Now half the people are freaking out including myself because we all know this dude was always running cycles. He was about 29 years old.


I figured I would share this and my concerns with you guys since a lot of you know the science behind roids. So to start of my first question is, what exactly links gear to heart attacks or strokes?? And is there things you should do while on a cycle to protect your heart? The cause of death has not been determined so there is nothing official but everyone is thinking it was the gear....but then again no one knew what he did outside the gym if he did recreational drugs or not.

My next question is, how your body holds up goes back to your genetics correct? Its like the concept how some dude can run 1 test only cycle and get shut down permanently and then you got other guys who abuse orals for years and are just fine.....genetics is what it comes down to am I right? And how your heart holds up against this I'm guessing also goes back to genetics? I am trying to make myself feel better about this but I ran a total of 3 cycles and recovered each time just fine, theoretically I should be fine right?(and feel free to burst my bubble)


And last question is, how crucial is bloodwork? I been a long time lurker and noticed you guys all get bloodwork done. I have ran all my cycles correct except for the part where I get bloodwork done. I have never done this, how crucial is it and what do you benefit from it?

Thanks bros

Did you really just ask how important blood work is? Come on man this is common sense here. If your going to inject drugs into your body YOU need blood work to keep it safe as possible. The guy in your gym could of had a stroke because his RBC count was to high. How do you think you would know if your red blood cell count is too high? maby blood work?? lol