For all of those interested in not walking with a cane due to bad tendons/ligaments, you may want to read this:
Effect of vitamin C and its derivatives - PubMed Mobile
Effect of vitamin C and its derivatives - PubMed Mobile
SUper High Dosage cycles 4,000+ mg/weekly. EXPERIENCED USERS/COMPETITIORS ONLY
- Thread starter MikeInAustin
- Start date
Austinite
New member
Skin collagen mostly. Not much from vitamin C with musculoskeletal.
It seems like vitamin C is a reagent in the hydroxylation process. Vitamin C doesn't necessarily guarantee the increased synthesis of collagen, but the lack thereof is hell-fire damnation. But anything is better than what I am doing now, so pass the flintstones please.
Yeah...that is exactly how I want them to find me--slumped over, on the toilet with a needle in my arm filled with pebbles and bam-bam.
This deserves its own thread. I am going to bang the books and ignore my family over the holidays and bounce a tendon/ligament maintanence plan off of you next week.
Mike Arnold
New member
There are dozens of different steroids one could use for effectve off-season mass gain. Availability is usually the determining factor, which is why you frequently see guys running test, nandrolone, boldenone, etc. However, the truth is that there are more effectuve steroid out there, if you can find them...legitimate versions, that is. For example, I would never use Boldenone for mass gain if Dihydroboldenone was available. In fact, I would select DHB over nandrolone 99 times out of 100. It builds more muscle tissue.
In attempting to determine how much lean mass was gained...or which steroid is stronger than another for growth purposes, many BB'rs will look at bodyweight gains relative to the amount of sub-q water they gained. So, if the indvidual gains 10 lbs and doesn't appear to be holding anymore sub-q water, they think they have gained 10 lbs of muscle, but it doesn't work this way. There are many factors which can influence weight gain when using AAS, many of which are not visible to the human eye, such as intramuscular water retention, increased blood volume, etc. Just I.M water retention alone can account for nearly 50% of the weight gained when using some steroids. This is due to the inhibition of the 11-beta-hydroxylase enzyme, at which some steroids are quite proficient. This inhibition causes the muscles to soak up water. Since this water is inside the muscle, it looks just like muscle. One is not able to differentiate between I.M. water and genuine muscle fiber through visual assessement. Therefore, weight gains have the potential to be very deceptive, regardless of whether you maintain a "dry" appearance or not.
For example, Anadrol is excellent at inhibiting this enzyme, which is why bodyweight is both gained and lost so rapidly with this drug. In reality, muscle built with Anadrol is not lost any faster than muscle built with Primo--gains retention is the SAME. The primary reason for this discrepancy is that Primo causes very little I.M water retention, no sub-q warer retention, and it does not accelerate red blood cell production as much as a steroid like Anadrol, so more of the weight gained is pure muscle fiber. With Primo, 6 out of 7 pounds gained may be legitimate muscle fiber, while with Anadrol, the ratio might be more like 6 out of 14. Anadrol causes a lot more water retention, so as soon as inhibitin of the 11-B enzymes ceases, I.M water levels return to normal. This is why users tend to "deflate" immediately after they stop using the drug...and to the eyes of most people, much of the weight lost looks like muscle mass, so they end up thinking that Anadrol has a poor rate of gains retention. the truth is that the initial weight loss is not muscle at all, but almost wholly water.
I bring this up because it is important to understand that we cannot always use visual assessment to determine which steroids are building the most actual muscle fiber. So, you cannot always rely on the scale or even the mirror when attempting to ascertain the muscle building potency of each steroid.
In addition, I also noticed that you are running D-bol at 100 mg/day for only 5 ot 6 weeks. That is a mistake. You would be far better off lowering the dose and increasing the duration. The toxicity claims of orals are highly exagerated on most boards. I see gjuys claiming all the time that orals like D-bol and Anadrol should be limited to 6 weeks in order to avpid liver damage. Bullshit. The truth is that human studies have revealed that Anadrol can be safely used for 12 weeks at 100 mg/day, with only modest to moderate elevation of liver enzynes. For those who wish to take preventative measures to further protect their liver, there are some great supplements out there (example: Advanced Cycle Suppport, by IML), which are capable of effectively minimizing the stress placed on the liver and cardiovascular system. I have seen individual use some of the more toxic orals for 6 weeks at normal doses and their bloodwork showed that their liver emzymes were completely NORMAL! I do not mean normal for an oral sterid user...I mean normal for a non-oral steroid user. The point is that liver stress is often severely exagerated.
For this reason, if maximum muscle gain is your goal, I recommend that you use orals for a longer priod of time at more moderate dosages, while utilizing a good cycle support product. Regular oral steroid users who avoid these products are fools. This will enable you to extract maximum benefit from the orals, while minimizing organ stress. You can't use oral for only 5-6 weeks of a 16 week cycle and expect to make maximum progress--not gonna happen.
While using higher dosage of GH is great, few people can afford it. A much better alternative is simply to use lower dosages of GH in combination with IGF-1 LR3. High quality LR3 can be purchased cheaply, as it does not cost much to make. However, it is a great adjunct to any steroid cycle and will provide good results over the long-term for minimal investment. You would be much better off reducing your AAS dosage slightly and adding in LR3, which will end up costing you about the same amount of money, but will provide superior results.
When it comes to insulin, to each his own, but there is no denying that insulin can be used safely and effectively for minimal investment. A 1,000 IU vial of Humulin R can be purchased at Wal-Mart for only $23. If you were to follow a simple post-workpout program of 10-15 IU, along with the appropriate amount of carbs & proteins, you will significantly aide your progress while barely costing you anything. Also, because the dose is low, you stand virtually ZERO chance of dying from it. I shouldnt even have to say that, as it should be common sense at this point to most, but I still see some guys saying how 10 IU is a huge dose and can kill you if you don't eat enough carbs. BULLSHIT! ANYONE could inject 10 IU of humulin and go to bed without eating a thing...and they would NEVER EVER die...not even close. It doesn't matter how insulin sensitive someone is; that dose is easily handled by the body's defense mechanisms in the absence of food. Sure, you might get a little light-headed, but once you get to the point, the body immediately begins taking steps to normalize blood glucose levels through the use of existing blood sugar and if necessary, glucogenesis. The point is that it takes quite a bit of insulin to actually kill someone...and a 10-15 IU program is very safe.
With that said, the following program would be substantially more effective than what was listed in the OP. This is a huge, not too complicated cycle that is only suitable for advanced BB'rs. I kept the GH dose the same, as GH dosage is usually based one's finances.
Weeks 1-8: Test @ 1,000 mg/week.
Weeks 1-8: Tren @ 700 mg/week.
Weeks 1-8: Anadrol @ 50 mg/day.
Weeks 9-16: Test @ 1,000 mg/week.
Weeks 9-16: Dihydroboldenone @ 1,000 mg/week.
Weeks 9-16: Trestolone @ 500 mg/week.
Weeks 9-16: SD @ 30 mg/day.
Weeks 1-16: GH @ 4 IU/day.
Weeks 1-16: IGF-1 LR3 @ 20 mcg/day (desensitization will not occur at this dose)
Weeks 1-16: Humulin R @ 10-15 IU post-workout.
Weeks 1-16: A.I. of your choice (Aromasin does not adversely affect cholesterol levels, unlike other A.I's)
Weeks 1-16: Advanced Cycle Support @ 2-4 caps/day.
In attempting to determine how much lean mass was gained...or which steroid is stronger than another for growth purposes, many BB'rs will look at bodyweight gains relative to the amount of sub-q water they gained. So, if the indvidual gains 10 lbs and doesn't appear to be holding anymore sub-q water, they think they have gained 10 lbs of muscle, but it doesn't work this way. There are many factors which can influence weight gain when using AAS, many of which are not visible to the human eye, such as intramuscular water retention, increased blood volume, etc. Just I.M water retention alone can account for nearly 50% of the weight gained when using some steroids. This is due to the inhibition of the 11-beta-hydroxylase enzyme, at which some steroids are quite proficient. This inhibition causes the muscles to soak up water. Since this water is inside the muscle, it looks just like muscle. One is not able to differentiate between I.M. water and genuine muscle fiber through visual assessement. Therefore, weight gains have the potential to be very deceptive, regardless of whether you maintain a "dry" appearance or not.
For example, Anadrol is excellent at inhibiting this enzyme, which is why bodyweight is both gained and lost so rapidly with this drug. In reality, muscle built with Anadrol is not lost any faster than muscle built with Primo--gains retention is the SAME. The primary reason for this discrepancy is that Primo causes very little I.M water retention, no sub-q warer retention, and it does not accelerate red blood cell production as much as a steroid like Anadrol, so more of the weight gained is pure muscle fiber. With Primo, 6 out of 7 pounds gained may be legitimate muscle fiber, while with Anadrol, the ratio might be more like 6 out of 14. Anadrol causes a lot more water retention, so as soon as inhibitin of the 11-B enzymes ceases, I.M water levels return to normal. This is why users tend to "deflate" immediately after they stop using the drug...and to the eyes of most people, much of the weight lost looks like muscle mass, so they end up thinking that Anadrol has a poor rate of gains retention. the truth is that the initial weight loss is not muscle at all, but almost wholly water.
I bring this up because it is important to understand that we cannot always use visual assessment to determine which steroids are building the most actual muscle fiber. So, you cannot always rely on the scale or even the mirror when attempting to ascertain the muscle building potency of each steroid.
In addition, I also noticed that you are running D-bol at 100 mg/day for only 5 ot 6 weeks. That is a mistake. You would be far better off lowering the dose and increasing the duration. The toxicity claims of orals are highly exagerated on most boards. I see gjuys claiming all the time that orals like D-bol and Anadrol should be limited to 6 weeks in order to avpid liver damage. Bullshit. The truth is that human studies have revealed that Anadrol can be safely used for 12 weeks at 100 mg/day, with only modest to moderate elevation of liver enzynes. For those who wish to take preventative measures to further protect their liver, there are some great supplements out there (example: Advanced Cycle Suppport, by IML), which are capable of effectively minimizing the stress placed on the liver and cardiovascular system. I have seen individual use some of the more toxic orals for 6 weeks at normal doses and their bloodwork showed that their liver emzymes were completely NORMAL! I do not mean normal for an oral sterid user...I mean normal for a non-oral steroid user. The point is that liver stress is often severely exagerated.
For this reason, if maximum muscle gain is your goal, I recommend that you use orals for a longer priod of time at more moderate dosages, while utilizing a good cycle support product. Regular oral steroid users who avoid these products are fools. This will enable you to extract maximum benefit from the orals, while minimizing organ stress. You can't use oral for only 5-6 weeks of a 16 week cycle and expect to make maximum progress--not gonna happen.
While using higher dosage of GH is great, few people can afford it. A much better alternative is simply to use lower dosages of GH in combination with IGF-1 LR3. High quality LR3 can be purchased cheaply, as it does not cost much to make. However, it is a great adjunct to any steroid cycle and will provide good results over the long-term for minimal investment. You would be much better off reducing your AAS dosage slightly and adding in LR3, which will end up costing you about the same amount of money, but will provide superior results.
When it comes to insulin, to each his own, but there is no denying that insulin can be used safely and effectively for minimal investment. A 1,000 IU vial of Humulin R can be purchased at Wal-Mart for only $23. If you were to follow a simple post-workpout program of 10-15 IU, along with the appropriate amount of carbs & proteins, you will significantly aide your progress while barely costing you anything. Also, because the dose is low, you stand virtually ZERO chance of dying from it. I shouldnt even have to say that, as it should be common sense at this point to most, but I still see some guys saying how 10 IU is a huge dose and can kill you if you don't eat enough carbs. BULLSHIT! ANYONE could inject 10 IU of humulin and go to bed without eating a thing...and they would NEVER EVER die...not even close. It doesn't matter how insulin sensitive someone is; that dose is easily handled by the body's defense mechanisms in the absence of food. Sure, you might get a little light-headed, but once you get to the point, the body immediately begins taking steps to normalize blood glucose levels through the use of existing blood sugar and if necessary, glucogenesis. The point is that it takes quite a bit of insulin to actually kill someone...and a 10-15 IU program is very safe.
With that said, the following program would be substantially more effective than what was listed in the OP. This is a huge, not too complicated cycle that is only suitable for advanced BB'rs. I kept the GH dose the same, as GH dosage is usually based one's finances.
Weeks 1-8: Test @ 1,000 mg/week.
Weeks 1-8: Tren @ 700 mg/week.
Weeks 1-8: Anadrol @ 50 mg/day.
Weeks 9-16: Test @ 1,000 mg/week.
Weeks 9-16: Dihydroboldenone @ 1,000 mg/week.
Weeks 9-16: Trestolone @ 500 mg/week.
Weeks 9-16: SD @ 30 mg/day.
Weeks 1-16: GH @ 4 IU/day.
Weeks 1-16: IGF-1 LR3 @ 20 mcg/day (desensitization will not occur at this dose)
Weeks 1-16: Humulin R @ 10-15 IU post-workout.
Weeks 1-16: A.I. of your choice (Aromasin does not adversely affect cholesterol levels, unlike other A.I's)
Weeks 1-16: Advanced Cycle Support @ 2-4 caps/day.
barrysanders
LIVING THE DREAM
Mike, when I do large doses I always have problems injecting anything more than 2.5 into any muscle group besides my glutes (chest, delts, quads). It could be bc I do ED injections with fast acting esters. However, just curious how many time you'll be pinning per week? And the Mgs into each spot.!
Black Beard
@ X450 Gravity
Mike Arnold
New member
I will not personally be running this cycle...it was just an example. Injection frequency with any cycle should be determined by the shotest ester in the cycle. In other words, if you are using an acete ester and you know you will be injecting at least 3X per week....you might as well inject the longer esters with it (in the same pin). This will minimize the number of weekly injections while minimizing blood level flucuations.
For example, if someone was going to use tren ace @ 500 mg/week, test cyp @ 500 mg/week, and EQ at 500 mg/week, I would schedule the injections as shown below.
Tren ace @ 150 mg/EOD
Test cyp @ 150 mg/EOD
EQ @ 150 mg/EOD.
At only 150 mg per injection, you can fit all of those steroids into one pin, so you might as well inject them all at once. By doing so, you will only be doing 3.5 injections weekly. What point is there in injecting the longer esters only 2X per week when you will still be injecting just as often (or more so) because of the acetate ester? You should always combine steroids when possible...and your injection schedule should be determined by the shortest ester in the cycle.
Mad- scientist
Moderator
That is a unique cycle mike. You definitely have some unique exotic compounds in their. After reading about Dihydroboldenone it makes me wonder why it is not more popular. I have seen the substance under different names before and always wondered about it.
barrysanders
LIVING THE DREAM
Lol.. I understand that. I have many cycles under my belt and a number of years. My question was directed of the amount of gear per injection into the muscle. Example: when i inject 2.5ml into a spot it seems always to knot up and get hot for a few days. And takes longer before I can inject into that same spot again which sucks. I have 9 injection spots but sometimes even that doesn't seem like enough.
If I wanted to go into even a larger cycle I would have to inject even more gear per injection.. 3ml plus which would even be harsher. I guess it's hard for me to imagine injecting over 3ml per site ED to get around 3,000+grams of
Gear into the body.
The only thing I can think of to help would be to get higher dosage gear. Instead of 100mg tren ace get 200. Instead of 250mg test get 500. Also, I always use short esters so maybe using long would be better for cycles 2grams and over.
All that makes sense.
Last edited:
noway55
69
EQ will only give you nothing if you dose it low. If you throw it in at 1g+ then it is an excellent and versatile compound.
Austinite
New member
Not in my experience. Even at a gram, it's weak for gains and far more dangerous. EQ was never designed to build muscle.
riprockwell
New member
I didn't mind EQ when I ran it like 10 years ago but the RBC issue was a bitch for me. Was donating every 56 days and still felt lethargic. There are far better compounds IMO that don't give me RBC issues like EQ did.
MeatHead96
Jacked and Tan
Yeah I haven't noticed enough with it at a gram a week to ever consider using it again. I gave blood at the beginning of my cycle and now at the end of it and bloodwork shows that my RBC's are not out of range.
Mike Arnold
New member
It makes me wonder if the EQ was real, as even low dose teststerone can potetially increase hematocrit out of the normal range. When using test, EQ and maybe other steroids along with it, especially if the EQ was dosed in a decent range, your hematocrit should definitely have been elevated outside the normal range. Now, some people don't seem to be affected as much in this manner when using AAS, but it is rare for someone to run 1+ gram of gear per week and maintain a normal hemaocrit level without taking any preventative measure.
If someone regularly drinks grapefruit juiced, the naringin within it could keep your hematocrit in a normal range.
MeatHead96
Jacked and Tan
Came right from PSL bro. The first 10wks of it and the rest was homebrew which I am 100 percent sure it was real.
Mike Arnold
New member
3 cc's is the maximum I would inject into any one site...and only in large muscle groups like the glutes, quads, and delts if they're big enough. If oil volume is an issue, then use long esters. Instead of tren ace, run tren enth. Instead of test prop...use test cyp/enth...or even T400-500, etc. There are 100's of potential injection locations. The quads alone contain dozens. Moving the pin just 2-3 inches away from the the previous spot is a new site.
So, when doing injections, rotate myscle groups as you normally would, but when you start your rotation over and are about to inject back into the original muscle group, just move the pin a few inches from where it was last time. If you do this with every site in every muscle group, you could go 6-12 months without needing to inject back into the exact same spot.
Mike Arnold
New member
Consider yourself one of the lucky ones, as most people would not still be in a normal range.
Last edited:
Austinite
New member
There are some, not many, but some... that overproduce hepcidin, where hematocrit wouldn't be impacted dramatically. But that would also mean that iron stores would be maxed out and circulating/metabolizable iron is low.
Hydration at the time of testing plays a key role as well. You could be at 48% today, and 52% tomorrow.
Hydration at the time of testing plays a key role as well. You could be at 48% today, and 52% tomorrow.
