Test results, should I take clomid?

[Fit1]

Can you pm me the private source?
I'm wondering if the I force bold messed me up.
Maybe a clomid pct will get my levels back up.
Bold was a legal ph I bought online and ran for six weeks years ago, ten all the ph were banned

I'd really want to just use test gel to get over 1000 on the free test level, but I guess for now if clomid can get me to 800 or above I will be happy

 

[juced_porkchop]

I doubt it will help, it looks like your primary. This means your testicles are receiving the FSH and LH signal yet they are not responding.

Clomid stimulates FSH and LH so since you don't have a problem there it is useless.

Besides Clomid makes most guys feel like a girl.


tell your doc he is too conservative, that your free t may be in range but its a the bottom of the barrel, what a 90 year old would have.

You need testosterone

If you want to see someone who knows what they are doing call Todd at IncreaseMyT.com

866 - 298 - 9197

or email at

info@IncreaseMyT.com

they will have you fixed up way quicker than the route your about to take.

agreed. tell him you want to try Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) to be in the highe rend of the levels or maybe try a new doc.

 

[juced_porkchop]

I also agree though to try the clomid or another sort of PCT 1 or 2 times before you stick to Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) the rest of your life.

 

[Fit1]

I will try the straight clomid. On Wednesday I should be able to pos the bloodwork from 3 weeks ago.
That shoul give a more current picture. Maybe I'll do the clomid post cycle therapy (pct) but damn I really just want to get on testosterone! Damn...

Is there a possibility I could go on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and lose my gut and get in better shape an THEN cycle off and run the post cycle therapy (pct) to get back to normal?

I feel like I might post cycle therapy (pct) then go up in test to like 500-600 again and the doctor will be like oh your fine but I will still feel like crap. I felt like crap at 580 a couple years ago. I want to be 1000 and up.

If things don't wok out I will def hit up increase my t

 

[adam7456]

I don't have 50 posts to be able to PM yet. I submitted 2 posts but something in them got flagged, not sure if they will get posted. If you want T of 1000 and up you will have to go with testosterone injections. Even Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) probably wouldn't get you up to that level. Clomid might at first but then peak. I would still go the clomid and nolvadex route before going with a lifetime treatment option.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I don't have 50 posts to be able to PM yet. I submitted 2 posts but something in them got flagged, not sure if they will get posted. If you want T of 1000 and up you will have to go with testosterone injections. Even Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) probably wouldn't get you up to that level. Clomid might at first but then peak. I would still go the clomid and nolvadex route before going with a lifetime treatment option.

the point you guys are missing is if he is primary there is no point in trying clomid........

 

[adam7456]

What makes you think he is primary? Nothing he has posted would indicate that. Primary means a defect that is inherent within the gonads. His LH and FSH were low, meaning his pituitary gland wasn't producing the right levels. That points to secondary. If he was primary his LH and FSH should be high but his T would still be low. But even then it still doesn't confirm primary as my LH level was near the high end of the range when I found out my T was only at 204 and clomid still worked for me. Even if every sign pointed to primary I think it is still foolish not to try a month or two of clomid first before putting someone on what will become a lifetime treatment program...especially if the person is young. Using the average life expectancy that would mean 40 years of testosterone treatments! Most doctors wouldn't even hesitate to put me on the program without trying other options first.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

What makes you think he is primary? Nothing he has posted would indicate that. Primary means a defect that is inherent within the gonads. His LH and FSH were low, meaning his pituitary gland wasn't producing the right levels. That points to secondary. If he was primary his LH and FSH should be high but his T would still be low. But even then it still doesn't confirm primary as my LH level was near the high end of the range when I found out my T was only at 204 and clomid still worked for me. Even if every sign pointed to primary I think it is still foolish not to try a month or two of clomid first before putting someone on what will become a lifetime treatment program...especially if the person is young. Using the average life expectancy that would mean 40 years of testosterone treatments! Most doctors wouldn't even hesitate to put me on the program without trying other options first.

Hey thanks a lot for explaining to me what the difference between primary and secondary is, if you wouldn't have said anything, I would have had no idea

Also
Fsh. 2.2
Lh. 4.8
Prolactin. 9.9

Now I don't what ranges your looking at but his LH is middle upper range ( 1.7-8.6), and its primary responsibility is to make testosterone, when it bumps into leydig cells inside the testicles.

Now FSH on the other hand bumps into sertoli cells and its main responsibility is sperm.

Even after all that, making me think he is primary, It really doesn't mean anything, a 24 hour urine test is a much more accurate measure of FSH and LH and the only real way to know for sure.

When guys are shut down they will test under 1 sometimes in both categories.

So, we dont know if he is primary or not, and it would be nice to know that before he possibly wastes his time taking a med that probably wont work and most likely make him feel like a 15 year old girl

 

[Fit1]

He thanks a lot for explaining to me what the difference between primary and secondary is, if you wouldn't have said anything, I would have had no idea



Now I don't what ranges your looking at but his LH is middle upper range ( 1.7-8.6), and its primary responsibility is to make testosterone, when it bumps into leydig cells inside the testicles.

Now FSH on the other hand bumps into sertoli cells and its main responsibility is sperm.

Even after all that, making me think he is primary, It really doesn't mean anything, a 24 hour urine test is a much more accurate measure of FSH and LH and the only real way to know for sure.

When guys are shut down they will test under 1 in both categories most times.

So, we dont know if he is primary or not, and it would be nice to know before he possibly wastes his time taking a med that probably wont work and most likely make him feel like a 15 year old girl

is there an exam i can take to find out if i am primary?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

The best way to determine would be to get that urine test and then give a FULL panel with ranges.

need full stats too, there is actually a 3rd type of hypo called tertiary. I just refer to it as secondary induced, but there is WAY too little info here, as 2rude has pointed out already, to accurately know what will be the best route for you.

 

[Fit1]

Ok I will ask the doctor to run a full panel and thyroid exams
I'm 30
Weigh 192lbs but was 210 in April.
Don't really work out when I do it's only cardio
Weight lifted for a few years ten stopped.

Not sure what other stats I should post but will post latest blood work wednesday

 

[2rude4u]

the point you guys are missing is if he is primary there is no point in trying clomid........

I have to agree you with you on this one. In looking at his labs, E is at 13 with the bottom of the range just below 12. This coupled with low test indicates that Clomid would probably do absolutely nothing for him. He needs:

Full endocrine panel including thyroid with MUST HAVE FT4 & FT3. If that all checks out then you need a pituitary CT. If that's good he can give Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) a shot (no pun intended) or jump into TRT. Obviously he can do what he wants, but if I were concerned with having kids testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) would not be my first choice.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I agree he is young. I have also seen people jump on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for a bit and then do a full HPTA normalization once there BMI is more in check and they can keep their T up. Especially if they are secondary induced.

There are a bunch of ways to set up, knowing what your hypo from will save you all kinds of time in the long run.

 

[Fit1]

2rude when you say pituitary ct you mean a cat scan?

 

[2rude4u]

2rude when you say pituitary ct you mean a cat scan?

Yes... that is exactly what I mean. You start with endocrine testing which should include the status of your nuts & thyroid. If that is in check and test results do not reveal a cause of your low test, then the next step is a Cat Scan of your pituitary gland. It is kind of a control center responsible for the production of about 9-10 of your major hormones. Sometimes there is a malfunction that can be treated with meds, sometimes there is a benign cyst that can also be treated with meds, sometimes you're just fucked and will die. Lol... just screwing with you. It is possible, but very, very rare.

Bottom line bro is that you have a ways to go before you decide that you will fuck yourself up for life. I'm 50, have kids and don't care to have more. You're young and want kids from the sound of it. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) needs to be your last resort in order to survive. DO NOT just jump into this without knowing the cause of your issues or at the very least knowing that your issues cannot be resolved without TRT.

 

[Bhsanjose]

Get tested and then consult with a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) specialist

 

[Fit1]

Yes... that is exactly what I mean. You start with endocrine testing which should include the status of your nuts & thyroid. If that is in check and test results do not reveal a cause of your low test, then the next step is a Cat Scan of your pituitary gland. It is kind of a control center responsible for the production of about 9-10 of your major hormones. Sometimes there is a malfunction that can be treated with meds, sometimes there is a benign cyst that can also be treated with meds, sometimes you're just fucked and will die. Lol... just screwing with you. It is possible, but very, very rare.

Bottom line bro is that you have a ways to go before you decide that you will fuck yourself up for life. I'm 50, have kids and don't care to have more. You're young and want kids from the sound of it. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) needs to be your last resort in order to survive. DO NOT just jump into this without knowing the cause of your issues or at the very least knowing that your issues cannot be resolved without TRT.

do you think i should be seeing an endocrinologist instead of a urologist?

 

[2rude4u]

do you think i should be seeing an endocrinologist instead of a urologist?

You will probably need both to determine what is causing your issue. Many times a urologist will just say "yep your nuts don't work" but not really know why or care. They just put you on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for life. Yours may find a diffinite cause in which case you won't need the endo.

If not however, you will want an endo that works with everything else hormone related. They will be able to run the tests you need to determine if the cause originates somewhere else or if infact your nuts just don't work.

It can be anything from a hormone imbalance, to a thyroid issue, to a pituitary problem, a hypothalamus issue or simply your nuts are damaged and just don't work. It's gets much more complicated than this, but these are the most commons causes.

 

[adam7456]

Now I don't what ranges your looking at but his LH is middle upper range ( 1.7-8.6), and its primary responsibility is to make testosterone, when it bumps into leydig cells inside the testicles.

Now FSH on the other hand bumps into sertoli cells and its main responsibility is sperm.

Even after all that, making me think he is primary, It really doesn't mean anything, a 24 hour urine test is a much more accurate measure of FSH and LH and the only real way to know for sure.

When guys are shut down they will test under 1 sometimes in both categories.

So, we dont know if he is primary or not, and it would be nice to know that before he possibly wastes his time taking a med that probably wont work and most likely make him feel like a 15 year old girl

Yeah I know what LH and FSH cause the leydig cells to produce. I've lived with the condition 2 1/2 years and researched it, possible causes, and treatment options continuously since finding out. The LH range I was talking about is the same range that you posted. Did you miss my post where I said my LH was 8.2 on a range of 1.7-8.6, just slightly less than double his levels his levels and I am not primary. That would seem to indicate LH levels are not a telling factor on if someone is primary.

Anyway, what is a couple months delay when someone is looking at 40 years of injections, not to mention having to pay for the prescriptions, office visits, and labs. Of course I'm not in the business of making money off of putting people on lifetime treatment programs...so I may be a bit unbiased in my suggestion of trying clomid any way and seeing what happens. A month of clomid isn't going to turn someone into feeling like 15 year old girl. Five or six months of it, with a doctor that won't prescribe any Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would. Again, I've lived it.

Is there an "I'm with Mr. $$$$$" icon...it would seem to fit with your "I'm With Stupid" icon.

 

[adam7456]

Ok I will ask the doctor to run a full panel and thyroid exams

From my dealings with doctors and conversations with other people who have low T, it is going to be difficult to find a doctor that actually cares about the cause of your low T or if you are primary or secondary. Most will just say "yeah you are low, here script for gel or injections". My GP said he wasn't specialized enough to determine the cause but he would run any test I asked for. The Urologist didn't care what the cause was and actually said "In most cases we don't know. Sometimes things just dont' work." That was his level of concern. I was 34 at the time and having kids was an issue, that is the only reason he was open minded enough to put me on clomid. I went to the Endocrinologist. He said the Urologist treatment program looks good and I should follow up with the Urologist. That was his level of concern, which was basically "I don't care and you are wasting my time.".

If you run into that you will have to keep trying doctors. Even then most the doctors will put you on a messed up treatment programs. The most common is an injection every 2 to 3 weeks. Considering the half life of the testosterone is 7 to 8 days you will have major hormone level swings. I've heard stories of doctors only doing monthly injections. If you do try clomid, it does nothing, and you are pretty sure you are primary, then you should look into one of the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) Specialists, such as IncreaseMyT.com. That's really they only way your are going to get what I would consider a proper course of treatment for TRT.