The mystery of anadrol

[JuiceAuthority]

How does drol produces gains, water retention and aggravate gyno?

Here are some facts:

1) Very low binding affinity to the AR
2) It's a weak anabolic compared to other 17aas (edited for clarification purposes).
3) Does not aromatize into estrogen at all
4) No direct evidence that it's progestogenic
5) Still aggravates gyno even when using high dosages of anti-e or AIs, which is even worse when stacked with test.

What is the mechanism of action that produces gains? Why does drol cause gyno? Where does drol's anabolic effects come from?

 

[3J]

there are 3 questions at the end.. are you asking questions or being informative.. im lost..

 

[RJ]

there are 3 questions at the end.. are you asking questions or being informative.. im lost..

same here. what is the point of this thread?

besides that... Drol sucks. Gains from Drol are typically strength and water. Same as Dbol. Used as a kicker its fine, but kills most appetites.

 

[JuiceAuthority]

there are 3 questions at the end.. are you asking questions or being informative.. im lost..

I honestly don't know. I stated what I know. Some say the reasoning drol produces these anabolic effects is through non-AR-mediated effects, but that doesn't quite make sense to me, and certainly doesn't explain why it causes gyno, or more importantly, what you can use to prevent it. If it's not estrogenic or progestogenic then there's no binding activity to the ER or PR.

 

[RJ]

I honestly don't know. I stated what I know. Some say the reasoning drol produces these anabolic effects is through non-AR-mediated effects, but that doesn't quite make sense to me, and certainly doesn't explain why it causes gyno, or more importantly, what you can use to prevent it. If it's not estrogenic or progestogenic then there's no binding activity to the ER or PR.

Just because there is no direct evidence its progestogenic doesn't mean it doesn't affect the PgR. Either way, its well know that anti-Es have minimal effect on Anadrol induced gyno, yet a dope agonist does, so maybe it has to do with prolactin.

Either way, who cares? Like i said, it only has limited value IMO, and if you get out of it what you want, and you control the sides, who cares why it happens.

People make this shit so complicated sometimes. its really not that difficult. That's not directed at you, just saying. Keep it simple.

 

[JuiceAuthority]

Just because there is no direct evidence its progestogenic doesn't mean it doesn't affect the PgR. Either way, its well know that anti-Es have minimal effect on Anadrol induced gyno, yet a dope agonist does, so maybe it has to do with prolactin.

Either way, who cares? Like i said, it only has limited value IMO, and if you get out of it what you want, and you control the sides, who cares why it happens.

People make this shit so complicated sometimes. its really not that difficult. That's not directed at you, just saying. Keep it simple.

I care. I have some prescription drol that I was planning on running for the next 2.5 weeks and already I'm noticing symptoms (it's only been 2 days). It's a low dose of drol too (50mgs/ed).

Let's say for argument's sake it is progestogenic even though that fact has never been established. Dopamine agonists are absolutely USELESS to prevent progesterone related gyno. All they do is reduce prolactin levels, which certainly aren't elevated from 2 days of drol. They don't prevent progesterone from binding to the PR.

I've been running pharma grade caber and aroma since I'm cycling test and deca so it's certainly not the prolactin. btw, nothing prevents progesterone from binding to the PR except the absorption pill. Winstrol (winny) and B6 are said to provide "some" blockage but who knows? All I know is I've been taking B6, caber, and aroma and haven't noticed any gyno symptoms UNTIL I started the drol.

 

[RJ]

I care. I have some prescription drol that I was planning on running for the next 2.5 weeks and already I'm noticing symptoms (it's only been 2 days). It's a low dose of drol too (50mgs/ed).

Let's say for argument's sake it is progestogenic even though that fact has never been established. Dopamine agonists are absolutely USELESS to prevent progesterone related gyno. All they do is reduce prolactin levels, which certainly aren't elevated from 2 days of drol. They don't prevent progesterone from binding to the PR.

I've been running pharma grade caber and aroma since I'm cycling test and deca so it's certainly not the prolactin. btw, nothing prevents progesterone from binding to the PR except the absorption pill. Winstrol (winny) and B6 are said to provide "some" blockage but who knows? All I know is I've been taking B6, caber, and aroma and haven't noticed any gyno symptoms UNTIL I started the drol.

You can get gyno (it seems) 2 ways. First off, from estrogen or progesterone making estrogenic gyno worse. And finally, from prolactin.

Basically, as progesterone is synthesized in response to estrogen, so if you control estrogen, you essentially reduce progesterone sides as well. Now, does that necessarily help you as you said you have used AIs and dope agonists alike? Apparently not.

So if nothing is working for you you have two options. Quit bitching and deal with it, or stop fucking taking it. Again, this isn't hard.

You seem to think you have all the answers to everything Juice, which is annoying, but there are plenty of guys like you on the boards, so its not out of the ordinary. So why even ask when if someone offers some advice you are gonna come off like some sort of know it all? Most every post you make is condescending in some way, which again, is quite annoying. The problem is people see ur posts and think, "even if i had an answer to help this guy out, why would I offer it up when he's gonna be a cocky shit about it? Fuck him, let him get tits!" See how that can be a problem?

My point is this. If you have tried all things to stop it, and you can't, then again you have two choices. Suck it up, or stop using it. Again. Keep it simple.

 

[RJ]

Dopamine agonists are absolutely USELESS to prevent progesterone related gyno.

btw smartass, i never said its useful against progesterone related gyno (if there is such a thing). i said prolactin. And unless you get BW done, even if its been only two days, you have no idea how your prolactin levels are.

 

[cashout]

How does drol produces gains, water retention and aggravate gyno?

Here are some facts:

1) Very low binding affinity to the AR
2) It's a weak anabolic (most androgenic)
3) Does not aromatize into estrogen at all
4) No direct evidence that it's progestogenic
5) Still aggravates gyno even when using high dosages of anti-e or AIs, which is even worse when stacked with test.

What is the mechanism of action that produces gains? Why does drol cause gyno? Where does drol's anabolic effects come from?

It's not a weak anabolic - its about 3X more anabolic than test and only about 1/2 as androgenic.

It is a DHT reduced steroid so, in vivo, it cannot convert to estradiol BUT there is considerable evidence that shows it has a direct binding affinity for the estrogen receptor itself much like Methandriol. That is the mechanism of action for estrogen related side effects like gyno.Since it has a direct effect on the estrogen receptors, no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will help. The best line of defense for Anadrol-induced gyno would be Nolva.

There was one study some time ago, that investigated the progestational activity of the drug and effectively demonstrated that there was no such effect in vivo.

 

[JuiceAuthority]

You can get gyno (it seems) 2 ways. First off, from estrogen or progesterone making estrogenic gyno worse. And finally, from prolactin.

Basically, as progesterone is synthesized in response to estrogen, so if you control estrogen, you essentially reduce progesterone sides as well. Now, does that necessarily help you as you said you have used AIs and dope agonists alike? Apparently not.

So if nothing is working for you you have two options. Quit bitching and deal with it, or stop fucking taking it. Again, this isn't hard.

You seem to think you have all the answers to everything Juice, which is annoying, but there are plenty of guys like you on the boards, so its not out of the ordinary. So why even ask when if someone offers some advice you are gonna come off like some sort of know it all? Most every post you make is condescending in some way, which again, is quite annoying. The problem is people see ur posts and think, "even if i had an answer to help this guy out, why would I offer it up when he's gonna be a cocky shit about it? Fuck him, let him get tits!" See how that can be a problem?

My point is this. If you have tried all things to stop it, and you can't, then again you have two choices. Suck it up, or stop using it. Again. Keep it simple.

You're not offering advice. You're more and more condescending with each post. If I had all the answers why would be asking these questions? I obviously don't have all the answers. I do my research and go off my own personal experience.

I'm not trying to debate you; I'm really looking for facts I may not already know together other people's experience who may have dealt with similar issues using this particular combination of compounds (test, deca and drol). Do me favor and stop posting in my thread as you have nothing to offer other than a "Holier than thou" attitude.

 

[RJ]

It's not a weak anabolic - its about 3X more anabolic than test and only about 1/2 as androgenic.

It is a DHT reduced steroid so, in vivo, it cannot convert to estradiol BUT there is considerable evidence that shows it has a direct binding affinity for the estrogen receptor itself much like Methandriol. That is the mechanism of action for estrogen related side effects like gyno.Since it has a direct effect on the estrogen receptors, no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will help. The best line of defense for Anadrol-induced gyno would be Nolva.

There was one study some time ago, that investigated the progestational activity of the drug and effectively demonstrated that there was no such effect in vivo.

There you go Juice, a nice well though out answer from one of our members who always posts great information and does so in an eloquent manner.

Does that work for you? I'm guessing your gonna disagree with him about Nolva and tell him he's wrong.

And i stand corrected, Nolva has always been said to be best for Drol gyno, for some reason i was thinking a dope agonist.

 

[JuiceAuthority]

It's not a weak anabolic - its about 3X more anabolic than test and only about 1/2 as androgenic.

It is a DHT reduced steroid so, in vivo, it cannot convert to estradiol BUT there is considerable evidence that shows it has a direct binding affinity for the estrogen receptor itself much like Methandriol. That is the mechanism of action for estrogen related side effects like gyno.Since it has a direct effect on the estrogen receptors, no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will help. The best line of defense for Anadrol-induced gyno would be Nolva.

There was one study some time ago, that investigated the progestational activity of the drug and effectively demonstrated that there was no such effect in vivo.

I wasn't comparing it to test. If you want a better comparator use var, which is much more anabolic than drol.

Anadrol 50:
Androgenic: Anabolic Ratio: 45:320

Anavar:
Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 322-630:24

Also, drol is not a DHT steroid. It is derived from DHT but it is not in the that drug class. And it also not a progestin or a compound with progestenic activity, so the estrogenic side effects still remain unknown.

I'd like to see the study or any info that supports the direct binding activity to ER. That would help explain things since everything I've read indicates different.

 

[JuiceAuthority]

There you go Juice, a nice well though out answer from one of our members who always posts great information and does so in an eloquent manner.

Does that work for you? I'm guessing your gonna disagree with him about Nolva and tell him he's wrong.

And i stand corrected, Nolva has always been said to be best for Drol gyno, for some reason i was thinking a dope agonist.

No it doesn't. Taking Nolva with a progestin (Deca) is not a good idea. Nolva increases the risk of progesrtone gyno as it upregulates the PrG but I'm sure you already knew that.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

No it doesn't. Taking Nolva with a progestin (Deca) is not a good idea. Nolva increases the risk of progesrtone gyno as it upregulates the PrG but I'm sure you already knew that.

This is not entirely true but im not even gonna go there.

Im pretty sure Drol up-regulates the estrogen receptors, thats why Nolva would be better for gyno in that case.

 

[RJ]

No it doesn't. Taking Nolva with a progestin (Deca) is not a good idea. Nolva increases the risk of progesrtone gyno as it upregulates the PrG but I'm sure you already knew that.

i figured you were one to listen to the bullshit No Nolva with Deca and Tren crowd.

read this:

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/591717-nolva-19nors-whats-truth.html

now, unlike you I'm not saying I'm right, but it stands to reason I am as the thread will tell you. Also since i know a shitload of people who have used Nolva numerous times with 19nors and have had no issues.

 

[Mr P]

drol is very high anabolic,it does'nt suck it is a powerful anabolic.

 

[JuiceAuthority]

This is not entirely true but im not even gonna go there.

Im pretty sure Drol up-regulates the estrogen receptors, thats why Nolva would be better for gyno in that case.

It does but why would you want to take a drug that aggravates progesterone related gyno when running a progestin??

Nolva is metabolized into compounds that bind to the estrogen receptor but it does not activate it. Nolva simply prevents estrogen from binding to its receptor site. It's actually very weak anti-e in terms of reducing circulating estrogen in the body.

Regardless, I found what I was looking for from some credible sources:

Up-regulation of estrogen receptor by tamoxifen in human breast cancer - Noguchi - 2006 - Cancer - Wiley Online Library

Conclusions. These results demonstrated that tamoxifen up-regulates ER and PR in human breast cancer.

Nolvadex - drugs informations

Tamoxifen binds to estrogen receptor (ER) which in turn interacts with DNA. The ER/tamoxifen complex recruits other proteins known as co-repressors to stop genes being switched on by estrogen. Some of these proteins include NCoR and SMRT. tamoxifen function can be regulated by a number of different variables including growth factors. tamoxifen needs to block growth factor proteins such as ErbB2/HER2 because high levels of ErbB2 have been shown to occur in tamoxifen resistant cancers. tamoxifen seems to require a protein PAX2 for its full anticancer effect. In the presence of high PAX2 expression, the tamoxifen/estrogen receptor complex is able to suppress the expression of the pro-proliferative ERBB2 protein. In contrast, when AIB-1 expression is higher than PAX2, tamoxifen/estrogen receptor complex upregulates the expression of ERBB2 resulting in stimulation of breast cancer growth.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

It does but why would you want to take a drug that aggravates progesterone related gyno when running a progestin??

Nolva is metabolized into compounds that bind to the estrogen receptor but it does not activate it. Nolva simply prevents estrogen from binding to its receptor site. It's actually very weak anti-e in terms of reducing circulating estrogen in the body.

Regardless, I found what I was looking for from some credible sources:

Up-regulation of estrogen receptor by tamoxifen in human breast cancer - Noguchi - 2006 - Cancer - Wiley Online Library

Conclusions. These results demonstrated that tamoxifen up-regulates ER and PR in human breast cancer.

Nolvadex - drugs informations

Tamoxifen binds to estrogen receptor (ER) which in turn interacts with DNA. The ER/tamoxifen complex recruits other proteins known as co-repressors to stop genes being switched on by estrogen. Some of these proteins include NCoR and SMRT. tamoxifen function can be regulated by a number of different variables including growth factors. tamoxifen needs to block growth factor proteins such as ErbB2/HER2 because high levels of ErbB2 have been shown to occur in tamoxifen resistant cancers. tamoxifen seems to require a protein PAX2 for its full anticancer effect. In the presence of high PAX2 expression, the tamoxifen/estrogen receptor complex is able to suppress the expression of the pro-proliferative ERBB2 protein. In contrast, when AIB-1 expression is higher than PAX2, tamoxifen/estrogen receptor complex upregulates the expression of ERBB2 resulting in stimulation of breast cancer growth.

Please tell me your kidding me right? You are trying to teach me about the difference between a SERM and AI? hahahahahaha on top of that you called AI's anti-e's

your studies are kinda worthless, you do realise that nolva acts completely different in different tissues right?

Intitially, Nolva down regulates the PGR, then after like 2 weeks it will reverse. just read what RJ posted and it will answer your questions

Now as I said before Nolva is much better choice for drol gyno because lowering estrogen is not going to do much cause the estro receptors are up-regulated. meaning you could get gyno with normal E levels. the only way to stop it is to stop estro from attaching to the receptor.

 

[JuiceAuthority]

drol is very high anabolic,it does'nt suck it is a powerful anabolic.

I was comparing drol to other 17aas. It no more anabolic than Winstrol (winny) and less androgenic. Anavar (var) is much more anabolic than drol and less androgenic as well.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I was comparing drol to other 17aas. It no more anabolic than Winstrol (winny) and less androgenic. Anavar (var) is much more anabolic than drol and less androgenic as well.

While the anabolic/androgenic ratios are interesting they really are kind of worthless. You realise these ratios have been around for like 80 years? and were determined by givving these meds to non-human mammals?