To carb, or not to carb...that is the question

[darkside06]

I've been experimenting with carb cycling lately...within the last 2 weeks, to see how my body reacts to it. I just started a cycle of Tes prop and Tren ace amd i'm trying to lean out a bit and ad lean muscle. I'm an Endomorph and believe i'm carb sensative, and my question is...how should i impliment carbs into my diet? Should I have a steady baseline that i hit on a daily basis or should I continue cycling them?

For the last 2 weeks this is how i've been cycling my carbs.

Sunday: high carbs...250-300g
Monday: low carbs...50g and below
Tuesday: low carbs...50g and below
Wdnesday Medium carbs...100-150g
Thursday low carbs 50g and below
Friday: medium carbs...100-150g
Saturday: low carbs..50g and below

I have my high carb day on Sunday because that is the only day of the week i hit 2 body parts in my workout. I hit Legs and shoulders so it really helps
Tuesday I hit chest
Wednesday back
Friday arms

My maintnance level is 3600 calories. on my low carb days I eat a lot of sald and veggies so i don't count those carbs and my calories are way below maintnance. Medium carb days they are about 500 below maintnance and high carb day they are right at maintnance.

hope this makes sense.

I'm hoping some of the more experienced guys.....3J, Cashout.....can chime in and give me some input.

Thanks.

 

[darkside06]

bump

 

[cashout]

One's nutrition should be based on one's goal.

So, I have to ask, what is the goal?

Goals dictate action.

 

[darkside06]

thanks for the reply Cash.

My goals are to drop some BF and add lean muscle.....I know, typical cliche`

I havea log up in the "My cycle" section if you wanna see more about my cycle.I'm only aweek in but wanna make sure my diet is doing the most for me.

 

[cashout]

I took a quick look through your other thread so I only have a limited perspective of what you are doing but in my opinion, at 6'4 and 240 you are carrying way too much body fat. I would have suggested you drop some body fat prior to running a cycle like this one.

In my opinion, you are not going to see the type of progress you might otherwise see if you were leaner - at least around 10% body fat.

With the cycle you are running, it really could be a solid growth cycle but you are talking about carb cycling and calorie restriction, and maintenance eating.

In my opinion, that is not a good approach to optimizing this cycle.

 

[darkside06]

I took a quick look through your other thread so I only have a limited perspective of what you are doing but in my opinion, at 6'4 and 240 you are carrying way too much body fat. I would have suggested you drop some body fat prior to running a cycle like this one.

In my opinion, you are not going to see the type of progress you might otherwise see if you were leaner - at least around 10% body fat.

With the cycle you are running, it really could be a solid growth cycle but you are talking about carb cycling and calorie restriction, and maintenance eating.

In my opinion, that is not a good approach to optimizing this cycle.

ok, so what would you suggest?

 

[cashout]

ok, so what would you suggest?

At this point, you are already committed to the cycle so, in my opinion, you only have one viable option and that is make this a solid growth cycle by doing a clean bulk with 4500-5000 base of cal daily.

You don't need a cycle like this to drop body fat. You need a cycle like this to grow so do that.

The thing you need to face up to after this cycle is a real honest to goodness cutting diet with which you get yourself down to around 10% and plan to stay there as your "new normal" set point.

From what I read you aren't power lifitng or playing offensive line on a football team so, there is no reason to be sloppy with body fat.

 

[darkside06]

At this point, you are already committed to the cycle so, in my opinion, you only have one viable option and that is make this a solid growth cycle by doing a clean bulk with 4500-5000 base of cal daily.

You don't need a cycle like this to drop body fat. You need a cycle like this to grow so do that.

The thing you need to face up to after this cycle is a real honest to goodness cutting diet with which you get yourself down to around 10% and plan to stay there as your "new normal" set point.

From what I read you aren't power lifitng or playing offensive line on a football team so, there is no reason to be sloppy with body fat.

You're completely right and I appreciate your advice.

Even for a guy the size of me, i find it hard to hit calories above 4000 a day. but i'm obviously going to have to get there.

as far as carbs....what would you recomend is a good number? or a good number for all my macros? My protein i'm getting right now is between 250-300g a day. How should i set upmy carbs?

Thanks again!

 

[cashout]

I go at it like this...

Current body weight = 240 lbs
Current Body fat = 18%

Lean Body Mass = 196.8

Protein Requirement @ 1.75 grams per pound of LBM = 344 g daily

Carb Requirement @ 2.5 g per pound of LBM = 490 g daily.

Fat Requirement @ .5 g per pound of LBM = 98 g daily

That will give you 4200+ cals a day and that should be your minimum.

 

[darkside06]

Damn....500g a carbs is a shit load considering I have a hard time getting 300 now. lol

Right now i'm eating
1cup oatmeal
3 cups brown rice
1 sweet potato
half a bagel

and i'm only hitting about 260g of carbs.

 

[3J]

cash... i believe he should just try to cut while on this cycle.. its going to be tough for him to hold on to the muscle after this cycle if he's going to cut... his bf is up..

instead.. i would aim for a full body recomp.. test and tren are great for that.. and with a carb cycle its effective..

so we are not saying completely cut... we are not saying completely bulk either..

best cased outcome you stay exactly the same weight and drop a decent amount of bf

 

[darkside06]

cash... i believe he should just try to cut while on this cycle.. its going to be tough for him to hold on to the muscle after this cycle if he's going to cut... his bf is up..

instead.. i would aim for a full body recomp.. test and tren are great for that.. and with a carb cycle its effective..

so we are not saying completely cut... we are not saying completely bulk either..

best cased outcome you stay exactly the same weight and drop a decent amount of bf

Thank you, that was exactly what i was hoping for.

So with saying that, has the way i've got my carb cycing above right....or how do you think i should tweek it if changes are needed. Thank you both for your advice!

 

[3J]

Thank you, that was exactly what i was hoping for.

So with saying that, has the way i've got my carb cycing above right....or how do you think i should tweek it if changes are needed. Thank you both for your advice!

here is how i would run it

300g carbs monday

100g carbs tuesday

no carb wed

300g carb thursday (leg day)
100g carb friday
50g carb sat
no carb sunday

 

[3J]

and obviously you will have a set caloric target each day.. your fats will replace your carbs on days that your carbs are lower

 

[darkside06]

my lifting schedule is a little different. I can only workout 4 days a week so I've been splitting it like this.

Sunday: legs/shoulders
Tuesday: chest
Wednesday: back
Friday Arms.

I will adjust my high carb days accordingly. Thanks for the help!

 

[cashout]

cash... i believe he should just try to cut while on this cycle.. its going to be tough for him to hold on to the muscle after this cycle if he's going to cut... his bf is up..

instead.. i would aim for a full body recomp.. test and tren are great for that.. and with a carb cycle its effective..

so we are not saying completely cut... we are not saying completely bulk either..

best cased outcome you stay exactly the same weight and drop a decent amount of bf

He is your client so I'd default to tell him to listen to you and follow your direction to the letter.

I have always felt it is a waste for guys with high body fat to run tren - the most power muscle builder available - and try to use it to drop some body fat.

I have always believed you need a diet to lose body fat not AAS especially the best muscle builder of them all.

 

[darkside06]

He is your client so I'd default to tell him to listen to you and follow your direction to the letter.

I have always felt it is a waste for guys with high body fat to run tren - the most power muscle builder available - and try to use it to drop some body fat.

I have always believed you need a diet to lose body fat not AAS especially the best muscle builder of them all.

I'm not anyones client right now. just trying to get the best advice. I really appreciate your input cash, you made some very good points. I just started carb cycling when I started this cycle. I've never done it before and so far it seems to be working for me. I've tried keto before and couldn't stand it.

I guess my theory on it was since Tren increses feed efficiancey then theoreticaly if I keep my calories at maintnance I should still be able to get some lean gains and hopefully trim up a bit while doing so.

I've only been doing this for just over a week but i've lost .75" from my waist and gained 2lbs in the 8 days i've been on. i'm starting to see a difference in the mirror and all though i know it's still very early, it's good to see the change.

Thanks again Cash & 3J....you guys are awesome!

 

[cashout]

instead.. i would aim for a full body recomp..

3J I mean no offense to you with what I'm about to write so please don't take it as such.

I know a lot of guys subscribe to this "recomp" idea but I have not found it to be effective for for most folks in achieving their goals.

It seems to me that "recomp" with those whom I've worked is code for I'm too worried about how much I weigh when I get on the scale and if it say I'm less than XXXX pounds I'm too small."

That seems to mess with a guy's head. Most seem to think that they need to be 225 or 250 or else they are "small" when the fact of the matter is a guy at 8% bodyfat and 200 looks 10X better.

So, I tell folks "Do not go recomp." Make up your mind and build or diet pick one and do it 100%. You don't get the best optimization of your work effort when you are trying to serve 2 masters.

 

[3J]

3J I mean no offense to you with what I'm about to write so please don't take it as such.

I know a lot of guys subscribe to this "recomp" idea but I have not found it to be effective for for most folks in achieving their goals.

It seems to me that "recomp" with those whom I've worked is code for I'm too worried about how much I weigh when I get on the scale and if it say I'm less than XXXX pounds I'm too small."

That seems to mess with a guy's head. Most seem to think that they need to be 225 or 250 or else they are "small" when the fact of the matter is a guy at 8% bodyfat and 200 looks 10X better.

So, I tell folks "Do not go recomp." Make up your mind and build or diet pick one and do it 100%. You don't get the best optimization of your work effort when you are trying to serve 2 masters.

no offense taken cash..

i gotta ask though.. were you ever a heavy set guy?? e.g. were you ever 240-250 and overweight??

i used to be 35% bf and i gotta tell ya recomping did wonders for me when i hit the lower to mid 20's...


let me come up with some before and after pics of recomps that iv done in the past.. you might change your mind about it

 

[cashout]

no offense taken cash..

i gotta ask though.. were you ever a heavy set guy?? e.g. were you ever 240-250 and overweight??

i used to be 35% bf and i gotta tell ya recomping did wonders for me when i hit the lower to mid 20's...


let me come up with some before and after pics of recomps that iv done in the past.. you might change your mind about it

No - I've never let my body fat get above 10% since the age of 15 years old.

Now, I am strictly a "body builder." As such, my paradigm is...

1) Healthy first and for most
2) Highest quality of life
3) Looks matter more than lifts

So I have always tried to work with folks toward those objectives.

I want rip the fat off folks first and rebuild from there. As I mentioned, this allows them to focus on one thing at a time. I find most folks can stay focus on one objective pretty well. When I start giving them multi-dimensional goals, they get confused...