I just now caught up with the thread on aspirating, oils in the vein etc. I was more than a bit taken aback. Why you felt compelled to resort to ad hominim attacks and questions about my medical training is a mystery to me, but so be it.
I read the two abstracts you posted, and it seems to me they only support my contention. It also makes me wonder how carefully you read these reports; they certainly do not support your point of view.
The first one actually equates vegetable ("neutral") oil injection with pulmonary fat embolus, and describes the pathologic changes. Your contention that my equation of the two is a "stretch", seems to be inaccurate; in fact, it seems to be the opinion of these researchers that the two are one in the same.
The second abstract describes a case of pulmonary oil embolism with peanut oil (a commonly used Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) carrier). These researchers ALSO equate injection of these "neutral" oils with pulmonary fat embolus. You point out that the patient received 20cc's of oil and still lived. What you failed to note is that this amount was infused over 24 hours! If 20cc's over 24 hours can cause this degree of pulmonary damage, then imagine what 2 or 3cc's over 30 seconds might do. It seems as though you did my literature search for me.
This is not an attack on you, the person. It is an attempt to again point out the potential damage that may occur via the inadvertant IV injection of oil-based Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) (peanut, sesame, cottonseed oils and the like are NOT benign in the pulmonary vasculature, as your abstracts indicated).
Why is there a dearth of reports in the literature regarding Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) related pulmonary morbidity? One explanation may be this:
First, because of the stigma associated with Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use, and, in the last decade, its illegality, many of these patients never seek assistance, and either die, or recover with (hopefully) minimal damage.
Second, of the ones that DO arrive in the emergency department, very few are likely to be honest regarding the source of their distress. They may be diagnosed as ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome) of unknown etiology, or if the syndrome is milder, be treated with antibiotics as a pneumonia, or a pneumonitis of unknown etiology. They may be hospitalized or sent home, with the physicians none the wiser.
To the other members: Intravenous injection of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) oils CAN cause significant morbidity or mortality. I stand by this statement. Hopefully, we don't have to see "case reports" in the literature to know this is true. ALWAYS ASPIRATE, and DO have a level of concern about this possible complication of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use.
Thanks
I read the two abstracts you posted, and it seems to me they only support my contention. It also makes me wonder how carefully you read these reports; they certainly do not support your point of view.
The first one actually equates vegetable ("neutral") oil injection with pulmonary fat embolus, and describes the pathologic changes. Your contention that my equation of the two is a "stretch", seems to be inaccurate; in fact, it seems to be the opinion of these researchers that the two are one in the same.
The second abstract describes a case of pulmonary oil embolism with peanut oil (a commonly used Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) carrier). These researchers ALSO equate injection of these "neutral" oils with pulmonary fat embolus. You point out that the patient received 20cc's of oil and still lived. What you failed to note is that this amount was infused over 24 hours! If 20cc's over 24 hours can cause this degree of pulmonary damage, then imagine what 2 or 3cc's over 30 seconds might do. It seems as though you did my literature search for me.
This is not an attack on you, the person. It is an attempt to again point out the potential damage that may occur via the inadvertant IV injection of oil-based Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) (peanut, sesame, cottonseed oils and the like are NOT benign in the pulmonary vasculature, as your abstracts indicated).
Why is there a dearth of reports in the literature regarding Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) related pulmonary morbidity? One explanation may be this:
First, because of the stigma associated with Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use, and, in the last decade, its illegality, many of these patients never seek assistance, and either die, or recover with (hopefully) minimal damage.
Second, of the ones that DO arrive in the emergency department, very few are likely to be honest regarding the source of their distress. They may be diagnosed as ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome) of unknown etiology, or if the syndrome is milder, be treated with antibiotics as a pneumonia, or a pneumonitis of unknown etiology. They may be hospitalized or sent home, with the physicians none the wiser.
To the other members: Intravenous injection of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) oils CAN cause significant morbidity or mortality. I stand by this statement. Hopefully, we don't have to see "case reports" in the literature to know this is true. ALWAYS ASPIRATE, and DO have a level of concern about this possible complication of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use.
Thanks
natty for mod
