Tren Ace and Calories what is too much or too little?

[Austinite]

I understand where your coming from. 19-Nor's don't directly cause the rise in prolactin but that's only if your spot on with managing your estrogen levels. Most people are not going to be spot on with their estrogen levels so all I'm saying is why not take the proactive/preventative route and take caber? Why get the limp dick before doing something about it?

Correct, but let's be realistic for a minute. Technically, I would prefer to call it "User-induced prolactin". It's understandable that your first couple of cycles might have issues with E2 management. But beyond 2 cycles, you've got bigger issues if you still can't manage E2. Basically what we're doing is taking a drug that has pretty heavy side effects for most people, because we failed to manage E2 and/or observe blood work.

So yes, take prami or caber if you do not mind the side effects and the extra cost. Just not my way of doing things. At the end of the day, prolactin is automatically reversed/lowered and really does no harm other than tentative libido loss. It's not like E2 where you'd develop gynecomastia.

 

[DreDay187]

I understand where your coming from. 19-Nor's don't directly cause the rise in prolactin but that's only if your spot on with managing your estrogen levels. Most people are not going to be spot on with their estrogen levels so all I'm saying is why not take the proactive/preventative route and take caber? Why get the limp dick before doing something about it?

I get what you're saying Mustang but the way I see it is as Austin mentioned, when cycling in a responsible manner and controlling your cycle and E2 by doing bloodwork, prolactin will not be an issue for most. I've heard just as many horror stories about prami etc sides as I have about "tren dick" plus I'm all in favor of minimizing the amount of "drugs" one puts in the body if not necessary. I should have added tren doesn't have a direct link to prolactin in my first response to you so that's my fault for rushing through the post. Also tren studies on humans are extremely rare and all the ones I've seen have been case studies but if you read the study I linked to that was performed on sheep, you'll see the prolactin levels failed to hangs with a tren acetate implant. This leads me to believe there's something other at play here than just "tren raises prolactin". On the other hand as you mentioned, if estrogen is a problem for someone to control and they don mind the added sides or cost of prami etc, yes, it can certainly help with loss of libido and ED problems. I apologize for the confusion and not looking to start things with you brother, I've always read your posts/advice and agreed with them

 

[MustangDX]

Correct, but let's be realistic for a minute. Technically, I would prefer to call it "User-induced prolactin". It's understandable that your first couple of cycles might have issues with E2 management. But beyond 2 cycles, you've got bigger issues if you still can't manage E2. Basically what we're doing is taking a drug that has pretty heavy side effects for most people, because we failed to manage E2 and/or observe blood work.

So yes, take prami or caber if you do not mind the side effects and the extra cost. Just not my way of doing things. At the end of the day, prolactin is automatically reversed/lowered and really does no harm other than tentative libido loss. It's not like E2 where you'd develop gynecomastia.

Prami is the dopamine agonist that gives off the pretty bad sides. Caber's possible sides are minor plus you won't be feeling them over the sides of Tren, which is why the OP would be taking it in the first place. Your also the one that stated, "But the doses of 19-Nor steroids today, may prove that somewhat ineffective. Leading to the necessity of having a secondary (and direct) compound to combat the effects". What I take from that quote is that powerful 19-Nor's like Tren would create a hard time for the user to dial in their estrogen levels perfectly. So, why not be safe than sorry and take the caber? On cycle, you want to be as normal as possible so it makes the whole experience a lot easier. The potential loss of libido is a huge deal for a male. That could really effect a persons well being rendering a tougher on cycle experience. I just personally would rather take the caber and not have to worry about it...Their are very few AAS users like you Austinite that have everything dialed in to the "T", where you wouldn't need a (DA) but that's not the case for most AAS users.

 

[MustangDX]

I get what you're saying Mustang but the way I see it is as Austin mentioned, when cycling in a responsible manner and controlling your cycle and E2 by doing bloodwork, prolactin will not be an issue for most. I've heard just as many horror stories about prami etc sides as I have about "tren dick" plus I'm all in favor of minimizing the amount of "drugs" one puts in the body if not necessary. I should have added tren doesn't have a direct link to prolactin in my first response to you so that's my fault for rushing through the post. Also tren studies on humans are extremely rare and all the ones I've seen have been case studies but if you read the study I linked to that was performed on sheep, you'll see the prolactin levels failed to hangs with a tren acetate implant. This leads me to believe there's something other at play here than just "tren raises prolactin". On the other hand as you mentioned, if estrogen is a problem for someone to control and they don mind the added sides or cost of prami etc, yes, it can certainly help with loss of libido and ED problems. I apologize for the confusion and not looking to start things with you brother, I've always read your posts/advice and agreed with them

I definitely have a mutual respect for you and Austinite as well. Both of you are very knowledgeable and I've learned a great amount from you guys and I'm very thankful and humbled. I think it's great to have debates because there's always two sides to every coin. In this case, we are both right so it would just depend on the user's preferred protocol preference.

 

[Austinite]

Prami is the dopamine agonist that gives off the pretty bad sides. Caber's possible sides are minor plus you won't be feeling them over the sides of Tren, which is why the OP would be taking it in the first place. Your also the one that stated, "But the doses of 19-Nor steroids today, may prove that somewhat ineffective. Leading to the necessity of having a secondary (and direct) compound to combat the effects". What I take from that quote is that powerful 19-Nor's like Tren would create a hard time for the user to dial in their estrogen levels perfectly. So, why not be safe than sorry and take the caber? On cycle, you want to be as normal as possible so it makes the whole experience a lot easier. The potential loss of libido is a huge deal for a male. That could really effect a persons well being rendering a tougher on cycle experience. I just personally would rather take the caber and not have to worry about it...Their are very few AAS users like you Austinite that have everything dialed in to the "T", where you wouldn't need a (DA) but that's not the case for most AAS users.

Not sure what that quote of mine has anything to do with the topic at hand. Still correlates with users. I'm really not even sure if there is even a debate here. I'm in agreement on both ends, which is why I said if you don't mind the side effects and additional cost, run your prami or caber.

"Not everyone has T dialed in like me". Probably true, but who's fault is that? This is why we attempt to educate, so that everyone can at least try. There is nothing that I am capable of doing that everyone else can't. So I don't get the comparison there, doesn't make educational attempts fruitless.

 

[superp]

Thread took off!

I was holding off on caber really as an experiment. I am a little older and trying out Tren to see what happens versus other typical cuts. Same cals, exercise, etc. I have more bloodwork next week and another planned at the end of the month. Libido is up, the wife has been happy, but starting to complain sometimes, lol. Thinking of adding Mast, which would help with E2 also.