Tribulus
- Thread starter smidy18
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hhajdo
Community Veteran
Tribulus is known for its aphrodisiac properties...
I've never seen any proof that it increases LH/test.
Its aphrodisiac properties are not caused by an increase of testosterone:
...The enhanced relaxant effect observed is probably due to increase in the release of nitric oxide from the endothelium and nitrergic nerve endings, which may account for its claims as an aphrodisiac..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10748960&dopt=Abstract
It increases sex drive in normal & castrated rats ...
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1468
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6238
I've never seen any proof that it increases LH/test.
Its aphrodisiac properties are not caused by an increase of testosterone:
...The enhanced relaxant effect observed is probably due to increase in the release of nitric oxide from the endothelium and nitrergic nerve endings, which may account for its claims as an aphrodisiac..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10748960&dopt=Abstract
It increases sex drive in normal & castrated rats ...
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1468
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6238
Hhajdo, tribulus does increase LH & testosterone. You can take a look at this study:
http://www.bpg.bg/tribestan/co_docs/tribulus_424_007.html
What is not proved is whether it does any good in post cycle treatment. Studies show that it improves the condition of hypogonadal man but from what I read on the boards, most of the guys that used it post cycle didn't feel anything and say that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is much better.
http://www.bpg.bg/tribestan/co_docs/tribulus_424_007.html
What is not proved is whether it does any good in post cycle treatment. Studies show that it improves the condition of hypogonadal man but from what I read on the boards, most of the guys that used it post cycle didn't feel anything and say that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is much better.
hhajdo
Community Veteran
That's probably the study that PA mentioned in his article:
Supplement that Supposedly Raises Testosterone
Mr. Arnold,
I am currently taking a herbal combo product that supposedly raises endogenous hormone levels. The product contains:
Tribulis Terrestris
FGP
Avena Sativa
Saw Palmetto Berry Extract
Calcium
Phosphorus
What are your opinions of this product, and is it indeed promising as a testosterone booster?
Tribulus Terrestris has never been shown, except for one dubious unpublished study by the bulgarian manufacturer, to raise testosterone. And I have known several places that have stated they were doing studies on TT. Funny thing is, I never did hear of the results, except for one, and in that one they did not find any effects on testosterone TT may have effects on neurotransmission in the brain (much more likely) that effect energy levels and libido.
http://www.musclemonthly.com/articles/0107/010701-haycock-supplement-science.htm
Supplement that Supposedly Raises Testosterone
Mr. Arnold,
I am currently taking a herbal combo product that supposedly raises endogenous hormone levels. The product contains:
Tribulis Terrestris
FGP
Avena Sativa
Saw Palmetto Berry Extract
Calcium
Phosphorus
What are your opinions of this product, and is it indeed promising as a testosterone booster?
Tribulus Terrestris has never been shown, except for one dubious unpublished study by the bulgarian manufacturer, to raise testosterone. And I have known several places that have stated they were doing studies on TT. Funny thing is, I never did hear of the results, except for one, and in that one they did not find any effects on testosterone TT may have effects on neurotransmission in the brain (much more likely) that effect energy levels and libido.
http://www.musclemonthly.com/articles/0107/010701-haycock-supplement-science.htm
Well, Sopharma is quite a reputable pharmaceutical company and I'd prefer to take their study as opposed to PA's claims. Did he post the study he's referring to?
Also, here is something from the same site that may explain why tribulus is not popular for use in a post cycle:
Seems like the effects appear quite slow while gear users will want to see fast results. Btw, that's a second study that's shows elevated testosterone.
Also, here is something from the same site that may explain why tribulus is not popular for use in a post cycle:
Seems like the effects appear quite slow while gear users will want to see fast results. Btw, that's a second study that's shows elevated testosterone.
hhajdo
Community Veteran
In this study, which was actually published in a scientific journal, 750 mg of tribulus ED didn't affect testosterone levels...
They are selling tribestan on that site so the hype doesn't surprise me...
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2000 Sep;10(3):340-59. Related Articles, Links
Effects of anabolic precursors on serum testosterone concentrations and adaptations to resistance training in young men.
Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Reifenrath TA, Uhl NL, Parsons KA, Sharp RL, King DS.
Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50011, USA.
The effects of androgen precursors, combined with herbal extracts designed to enhance testosterone formation and reduce conversion of androgens to estrogens was studied in young men. Subjects performed 3 days of resistance training per week for 8 weeks. Each day during Weeks 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8, subjects consumed either placebo (PL; n = 10) or a supplement (ANDRO-6; n = 10), which contained daily doses of 300 mg androstenedione, 150 mg DHEA, 750 mg Tribulus terrestris, 625 mg Chrysin, 300 mg Indole-3-carbinol, and 540 mg Saw palmetto. Serum androstenedione concentrations were higher in ANDRO-6 after 2, 5, and 8 weeks (p <.05), while serum concentrations of free and total testosterone were unchanged in both groups. Serum estradiol was elevated at Weeks 2, 5, and 8 in ANDRO-6 (p <.05), and serum estrone was elevated at Weeks 5 and 8 (p <.05). Muscle strength increased (p <.05) similarly from Weeks 0 to 4, and again from Weeks 4 to 8 in both treatment groups. The acute effect of one third of the daily dose of ANDRO-6 and PL was studied in 10 men (23 +/- 4 years). Serum androstenedione concentrations were elevated (p <.05) in ANDRO-6 from 150 to 360 min after ingestion, while serum free or total testosterone concentrations were unchanged. These data provide evidence that the addition of these herbal extracts to androstenedione does not result in increased serum testosterone concentrations, reduce the estrogenic effect of androstenedione, and does not augment the adaptations to resistance training.
They are selling tribestan on that site so the hype doesn't surprise me...
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2000 Sep;10(3):340-59. Related Articles, Links
Effects of anabolic precursors on serum testosterone concentrations and adaptations to resistance training in young men.
Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Reifenrath TA, Uhl NL, Parsons KA, Sharp RL, King DS.
Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50011, USA.
The effects of androgen precursors, combined with herbal extracts designed to enhance testosterone formation and reduce conversion of androgens to estrogens was studied in young men. Subjects performed 3 days of resistance training per week for 8 weeks. Each day during Weeks 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8, subjects consumed either placebo (PL; n = 10) or a supplement (ANDRO-6; n = 10), which contained daily doses of 300 mg androstenedione, 150 mg DHEA, 750 mg Tribulus terrestris, 625 mg Chrysin, 300 mg Indole-3-carbinol, and 540 mg Saw palmetto. Serum androstenedione concentrations were higher in ANDRO-6 after 2, 5, and 8 weeks (p <.05), while serum concentrations of free and total testosterone were unchanged in both groups. Serum estradiol was elevated at Weeks 2, 5, and 8 in ANDRO-6 (p <.05), and serum estrone was elevated at Weeks 5 and 8 (p <.05). Muscle strength increased (p <.05) similarly from Weeks 0 to 4, and again from Weeks 4 to 8 in both treatment groups. The acute effect of one third of the daily dose of ANDRO-6 and PL was studied in 10 men (23 +/- 4 years). Serum androstenedione concentrations were elevated (p <.05) in ANDRO-6 from 150 to 360 min after ingestion, while serum free or total testosterone concentrations were unchanged. These data provide evidence that the addition of these herbal extracts to androstenedione does not result in increased serum testosterone concentrations, reduce the estrogenic effect of androstenedione, and does not augment the adaptations to resistance training.
IMO, the only thing this study proves is that this particular combo is practically useless. But I don't think the study can be used against tribulus. They gave the subjects so much stuff and only God knows what affects what.
And here is a similar study (the only difference being men didn't train during the study) showing elevated free testosterone. I don't think this study proves anything either but it's interesting to see how a similar design produces different results.
Effects of androstenedione-herbal supplementation on serum sex hormone concentrations in 30- to 59-year-old men.
Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Martini ER, Kohut ML, Franke WD, Jackson DA, King DS.
Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, IA, USA.
The effectiveness of a nutritional supplement designed to enhance serum testosterone concentrations and prevent the formation of dihydrotestosterone and estrogens from the ingested androgens was investigated in healthy 30- to 59-year old men. Subjects were randomly assigned to consume DION (300 mg androstenedione, 150 mg dehydroepiandrosterone, 540 mg saw palmetto, 300 mg indole-3-carbinol, 625 mg chrysin, and 750 mg Tribulus terrestris per day; n = 28) or placebo (n = 27) for 28 days. Serum free testosterone, total testosterone, androstenedione, dihydrotestosterone, estradiol, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), and lipid concentrations were measured before and throughout the 4-week supplementation period. Serum concentrations of total testosterone and PSA were unchanged by supplementation. DION increased (p < 0.05) serum androstenedione (342%), free testosterone (38%), dihydrotestosterone (71%), and estradiol (103%) concentrations. Serum HDL-C concentrations were reduced by 5.0 mg/dL in DION (p < 0.05). Increases in serum free testosterone (r2 = 0.01), androstenedione (r2 = 0.01), dihydrotestosterone (r2 = 0.03), or estradiol (r2 = 0.07) concentrations in DION were not related to age. While the ingestion of androstenedione combined with herbal products increased serum free testosterone concentrations in older men, these herbal products did not prevent the conversion of ingested androstenedione to estradiol and dihydrotestosterone
And here is a similar study (the only difference being men didn't train during the study) showing elevated free testosterone. I don't think this study proves anything either but it's interesting to see how a similar design produces different results.
Effects of androstenedione-herbal supplementation on serum sex hormone concentrations in 30- to 59-year-old men.
Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Martini ER, Kohut ML, Franke WD, Jackson DA, King DS.
Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, IA, USA.
The effectiveness of a nutritional supplement designed to enhance serum testosterone concentrations and prevent the formation of dihydrotestosterone and estrogens from the ingested androgens was investigated in healthy 30- to 59-year old men. Subjects were randomly assigned to consume DION (300 mg androstenedione, 150 mg dehydroepiandrosterone, 540 mg saw palmetto, 300 mg indole-3-carbinol, 625 mg chrysin, and 750 mg Tribulus terrestris per day; n = 28) or placebo (n = 27) for 28 days. Serum free testosterone, total testosterone, androstenedione, dihydrotestosterone, estradiol, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), and lipid concentrations were measured before and throughout the 4-week supplementation period. Serum concentrations of total testosterone and PSA were unchanged by supplementation. DION increased (p < 0.05) serum androstenedione (342%), free testosterone (38%), dihydrotestosterone (71%), and estradiol (103%) concentrations. Serum HDL-C concentrations were reduced by 5.0 mg/dL in DION (p < 0.05). Increases in serum free testosterone (r2 = 0.01), androstenedione (r2 = 0.01), dihydrotestosterone (r2 = 0.03), or estradiol (r2 = 0.07) concentrations in DION were not related to age. While the ingestion of androstenedione combined with herbal products increased serum free testosterone concentrations in older men, these herbal products did not prevent the conversion of ingested androstenedione to estradiol and dihydrotestosterone
hhajdo
Community Veteran
Maybe the extracts used in those studies differed in their protodioscine levels - that could be the reason for different results... I would have expected andro alone to slightly increase test & the addition of tribulus should have increased it even further ....
Don't forget that it increases sex drive in castrated rats...
I just don't trust supplement companies and would like to see independent studies on it...
Don't forget that it increases sex drive in castrated rats...
I just don't trust supplement companies and would like to see independent studies on it...
Neither do I
But what I was trying to say is that Sopharma ( the tribestan manufacturer) is NOT a suplement company, it is a very reputable pharmaceutical company and I certainly trust their studies.Btw, I think I have seen a study on andro alone and even that doesn't increase testosterone, only LH was raised.
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