Trt and weight to dosage ratio

[3J]

So I've been doing some research on trt and dosage

I'm well aware of the correlation between testosterone and the many factors that would make you feel like your "dialed in"

Through my own personal experience I love to cruise at about 240mg a week, though I try to keep myself at 200mg

So it got me thinking about why three is such an individualistic character in trt that makes the dosage of treatment so different from person to person


I know there's a lot to think about here... Metabolism, androgen receptor down regulation, shbg, the list goes on...

I tried doing a scholarly search on the correlation between dosage and total bodyweight or even lbm...

Can't find a Damn thing...

It hits me at home because I'm naturally a big guy...


Anyone here read anything credible on the matter?

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

I think you sort of answered your own question dude - there are alot of factors to consider when looking at individual responses to trt.

However, based on the research I've seen, bodyweight/lbm is not high on the list of important considerations.
To look at at a few factors:

Androgen receptor down regulation - this is why looking at an individuals AAS use, lengtg & dosage, is important.

Age - this ties in with metabolism because the older you get, the lower your meta-bolic clearance rates for test are (meaning more of it stays in your system).
Basically, having a low meta-bolic clearance rate allows a lower dose of test to get you dialed in. Younger individuals generally have higher meta-bolic clearance rates, which means they need higher doses to actually increase their serum T levels.
This study illustrates this point well:

Differences in the apparent ********* c - PubMed Mobile

Due to the many factors involved, it isn't suprising to find no solid studies showing correlation between weight/lbm & test dosage based on causality ie lower lbm causes lower doses of test to be needed, etc.
You might find some observational stuff 3J, but nothing you could really hang your hat on.

Edit: I should add that there are studies showing a link between bf% and natural test levels. Being obese lowers test as does being too lean, depending on set points.
Although I doubt this translates to the dose required to get your trt dialed in.

 

[Alpin]

No wonder my old doses for TRT felt potent when I started going back to that dosing....
I always said in my posts on here when I was younger I could tolerate higher doses.
Now I keep my levels no more than 1000 ng....even that is a lot!
But who knows..
If I stay at that level I might feel nothing after a while.
If my levels get to high...hard to sleep, sort of anxiety, problems with HCT etc...
I wouldn't be able to tolerate cycling anymore...way too strong for me.

 

[Alpin]

What else on "metabolism"??
Being "obese" lowers Test ?
Too lean as well ???
What are we discussing here? Natty or on TRT ?

 

[DucBase]

I've read that being a fatbody can lower test in natty people. I could swear I even read a study that seemed to show that big fat deposits start acting like glands and creating estrogen...or something like that.

But I am curious about the question the OP posed. I mean I don't think it's really related to body mass but I would like to know why it varies so much between individuals.

 

[Alpin]

I've read that being a fatbody can lower test in natty people. I could swear I even read a study that seemed to show that big fat deposits start acting like glands and creating estrogen...or something like that.

But I am curious about the question the OP posed. I mean I don't think it's really related to body mass but I would like to know why it varies so much between individuals.

You can't really lose weight if hypogonadal. The combination of the two ( obesity, low T) make it torture to train.
Look at it this way....
A young healthy guy doesn't pack on significant amounts of weight and love handles if their T is healthy - optimal.
Low T plays a major role in weight gain (visceral fat).

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

What else on "metabolism"??
Being "obese" lowers Test ?
Too lean as well ???
What are we discussing here? Natty or on TRT ?

Being natty, obesity and being too lean definetly translates to lower test levels - the studies & my real life experiences prove this. In terms of what is "too lean" - this varies from person to person, but it means being too low from your set point.

Does this translate to guys on trt? I cant find the studies on pubmed but this article suggests that yes it does:

TRT Studies Show Obesity and Exercise Affect Testosterone Levels

It suggests that exercisig more improves trt protocol while being obese reducds its effectiveness - same thing applies to natties.

In terms of the metabolism factor, I found the study in my previous post the most interesting because it explains why their is such a low rate of younger guys who have succesfully dialed in protocols.
There are other studies showing links between metabolism & trt protocols, but none that are really full proof for me to use here.

 

[Alpin]

Being natty, obesity and being too lean definetly translates to lower test levels - the studies & my real life experiences prove this. In terms of what is "too lean" - this varies from person to person, but it means being too low from your set point.

Does this translate to guys on trt? I cant find the studies on pubmed but this article suggests that yes it does:

TRT Studies Show Obesity and Exercise Affect Testosterone Levels

It suggests that exercisig more improves trt protocol while being obese reducds its effectiveness - same thing applies to natties.

In terms of the metabolism factor, I found the study in my previous post the most interesting because it explains why their is such a low rate of younger guys who have succesfully dialed in protocols.
There are other studies showing links between metabolism & trt protocols, but none that are really full proof for me to use here.

What age group defines "younger"?

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

What age group defines "younger"?

18-35

 

[Alpin]

18-35

No offense man....
But that article is for the recycling bin !
What doctor puts their patients on TRT with levels below 350 ng/dl for 12 weeks and then pulls the plug on them? No restart was mentioned as being used either.
The patients were left with real hypogonadal levels after discontinuation of treatment.
These are not credible doctors in this study. They are looking for test subjects as guinea pigs.
The article clearly says there needs to be more reasearch.....
These doctors in this study know nothing about HCG use either to maintain sperm count.
They couldn't consult with fertlity specialists ????
Ridiculous.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

No offense man....
But that article is for the recycling bin !
What doctor puts their patients on TRT with levels below 350 ng/dl for 12 weeks and then pulls the plug on them? No restart was mentioned as being used either.
The patients were left with real hypogonadal levels after discontinuation of treatment.
These are not credible doctors in this study. They are looking for test subjects as guinea pigs.
The article clearly says there needs to be more reasearch.....
These doctors in this study know nothing about HCG use either to maintain sperm count.
They couldn't consult with fertlity specialists ????
Ridiculous.

I'm assuming your referring to the article not the metabolism study I originally posted.

I think this has been covered extensively on this board but I'll say it anyway: most doctors haven't got a clue about trt protocol & its very rare to find one that genuiely knows what they're doing & care about the patients health.

Having said that, despite the poor quality of the article, the studies within it do have valid points.
This article summarises the studies better:

New Studies Highlight Benefits, Risks of Testosterone Therapy - MarketWatch

The first study does show that exercise + trt is better than trt alone; the third study is also convincing when it comes to the obese being less responsive on trt.

The same conclusions have already been proven with natties & how their test levels respond to exercise, weightgain/loss.
I agree that more research is needed, but the conclusions from the studies make sense - regardless of who the conclusions are coming from

 

[Alpin]

I'm assuming your referring to the article not the metabolism study I originally posted.

I think this has been covered extensively on this board but I'll say it anyway: most doctors haven't got a clue about trt protocol & its very rare to find one that genuiely knows what they're doing & care about the patients health.

Having said that, despite the poor quality of the article, the studies within it do have valid points.
This article summarises the studies better:

New Studies Highlight Benefits, Risks of Testosterone Therapy - MarketWatch

The first study does show that exercise + trt is better than trt alone; the third study is also convincing when it comes to the obese being less responsive on trt.

The same conclusions have already been proven with natties & how their test levels respond to exercise, weightgain/loss.
I agree that more research is needed, but the conclusions from the studies make sense - regardless of who the conclusions are coming from

Yeah the article was for the shredder.
Not the metabolism study.

 

[Megatron28]

I can't think of anything documented that I have seen about dose to weight ratio for TRT. But anecdotal information seems to point to bigger guys needing bigger doses. Most of the guys I know that need more than 250mg/week to be in the upper end of the normal range (but not exceed it) are big guys like Halfwit. As Halfwit himself would say, that is my 2 cents.

 

[cybrsage]

I know this is purely my personal experience, but when I was on 300mg/week of Test-Cyp (by accident for a mere two weeks) my T levels were slightly over 1200. I am 5'9" and weigh 191 lbs...and that is me in the picture. 150mg/week puts me at slightly over 700, which is high in the normal range (the bottom of the normal range is 250). My natural T levels are 153.

I am a naturally little guy - I was the proverbial pencil neck geek in high school.

 

[Alpin]

I know this is purely my personal experience, but when I was on 300mg/week of Test-Cyp (by accident for a mere two weeks) my T levels were slightly over 1200. I am 5'9" and weigh 191 lbs...and that is me in the picture. 150mg/week puts me at slightly over 700, which is high in the normal range (the bottom of the normal range is 250). My natural T levels are 153.

I am a naturally little guy - I was the proverbial pencil neck geek in high school.

At 70 mg E3D T.... I came in at 1270 ng/dl TT (2 days from shot). I'm 250 lbs and 6'0".

 

[Exotic Vizonz]

You can't really lose weight if hypogonadal. The combination of the two ( obesity, low T) make it torture to train.
Look at it this way....
A young healthy guy doesn't pack on significant amounts of weight and love handles if their T is healthy - optimal.
Low T plays a major role in weight gain (visceral fat).

I can agree with this 100% My arms and legs are pretty lean, but I just couldn't shag the trunk fat until I got on TRT [June], just now is it starting to come off.

 

[Alpin]

I can agree with this 100% My arms and legs are pretty lean, but I just couldn't shag the trunk fat until I got on TRT [June], just now is it starting to come off.

I lost alot of weight by taking T (divided doses ) with E3D HCG.
HCG mono lowered my appetite some...I lost weight on that too.
But more so with T shots.

 

[3J]

Great post as usual! But you're preaching to the choir here with that.. What I'm specifically looking for is studies on dosage dependence to bodyweight... I know that after injecting 100mg on Monday and testing Thursday morning my levels come back at about 800 so it should be more than enough for me.. Yet I feel better on 240mg a week... This might be due to my adex dosage and having my estrogen be a little higher... It reads at 25 with half a mg twice a week

I think you sort of answered your own question dude - there are alot of factors to consider when looking at individual responses to trt.

However, based on the research I've seen, bodyweight/lbm is not high on the list of important considerations.
To look at at a few factors:

Androgen receptor down regulation - this is why looking at an individuals AAS use, lengtg & dosage, is important.

Age - this ties in with metabolism because the older you get, the lower your meta-bolic clearance rates for test are (meaning more of it stays in your system).
Basically, having a low meta-bolic clearance rate allows a lower dose of test to get you dialed in. Younger individuals generally have higher meta-bolic clearance rates, which means they need higher doses to actually increase their serum T levels.
This study illustrates this point well:

Differences in the apparent ********* c - PubMed Mobile

Due to the many factors involved, it isn't suprising to find no solid studies showing correlation between weight/lbm & test dosage based on causality ie lower lbm causes lower doses of test to be needed, etc.
You might find some observational stuff 3J, but nothing you could really hang your hat on.

Edit: I should add that there are studies showing a link between bf% and natural test levels. Being obese lowers test as does being too lean, depending on set points.
Although I doubt this translates to the dose required to get your trt dialed in.

 

[Madhaya]

I could swear I even read a study that seemed to show that big fat deposits start acting like glands and creating estrogen...or something like that.

Fat cells create aromatase enzymes in the bloodstream which then convert (aromatize) your test into estrogen.

 

[DucBase]

That does sound more reasonable than growing an ovary in my fat.