BigAndy69
New member
Had some requests to share this post. I put it on Elite originally, funny thing is I can't find it.
Here's a little bit of information on how UG labs work, especially the Canadian UG scene.
I AM NOT IMPLYING THAT I KNOW ANYTHING, SO DO NOT CONTACT ME TO OBTAIN SOURCE INFO. I HAVE THIS INFORMATION BECAUSE I'VE BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE AND I HAVE SEEN A 2-3 DOZEN LAB TESTS DONE ON NUMEROUS PRODUCTS.
I will not comment on any specific brands publicly. Sorry.
What does "lab" imply?
Many people do not have a basic understanding of how these labs operate. The term "lab" plastered on a product implies that it is made in a large pharmaceutical facility. That's not the case. Anybody who claims this is full of shit(It is possible but very unlikely). Chances are it's not made in a multi-million dollar facility. A chemist is not going to risk his career and freedom by using legit lab facilities after hours for illegal activity. The money is not worth it.
There are many different possibilities but the most common method is to subcontract different chemists.
That's were the difference lies; in the skills and equipment a chemist has.
Some chemists are able to match the isomers of perservatives(Alcohol) and powders(steroids). This makes a much more stable solution. If they don't bother with this important detail, the solution can crash and the only way to mix it again is by adding a large amount of BA (Mexican gear is notorious for this as well as IP). There are many other skills like balancing BB/BA levels (BL is an expert at this). All these things that we don't even think of are factors in how good a product is.
Some chemists also have apartment room lab setups. A room is converted in a sterile environment. This is very rare as the equipment is extremely expensive in the mid 5 figure range. You also need the right hookups for the equipment.
So while a batch was made by a skilled chemist, another batch of the same product could be made by a college dropout in his parent's basement while watching old Seinfeld re-runs. There is only so many vials a chemist can pump out at a time. Ever wonder what the virtues of a 700 mg/ml enanthate are? None for the user, it's simply a way for a lab to come out with products faster. Also, the lot numbers on UG products don't mean anything.
The AS community is very tight and there are not that many chemists. Althought, you may have a couple dozen Canadian brands, most of the products come from the same guys. For example, Perutech and QFS Dbol/winny are made by the same organization.
Batch vs Batch
Tabs are usually made seperate of liquids as tab presses generate a LOT of heat(Think XTC). What I'm trying to get at is don't assume a lab's Winstrol (winny) tabs are good because their Test Enanthate was good. Same goes with the injectables. "Oh, there prop was awesome, I'm sure there Eq will be great!" Not always true.
Some products are more likely to be underdosed or counterfeits/fakes, they are:
-Oxandrolone
-Trenbolone
-Masteron
-Primobolan and other exotic steroids
-Equipose (**In Canada, as Eq is liquid at room temperature and it's a more complicated process to get it into the country**)
The first time a legit lab starts out, the products are very good, because they had plenty of time to bring the powders in and people work at low cost. Once demand picks up, all hell breaks lose and they better be prepared. There's only so much raw material a lab can
bring in and it's NEVER enough. All of a sudden, the chemists want double. They didn't exactly sign a legit contract outlining their salaries.
Cutting Corners
We need 2000 EQs ASAP but we only have raw materials for 1000. Well, you now have 100mg/ml labeled as 200mg/ml. 90% of labs will cut corners when the stress is on. Be very wary of large brands that are never out of stock. That's what made Spectro so special in the earlier days. He didn't cut corners. I remember that he was out of Eq for 2 months. It hurt him financially but he stuck to his core beliefs.
Unpredictable problems
There are many problems that can plague an UG organization. It is an illegal operation and some shady people are involved. Some of these lower level chemist can be real sleaze balls. There was a case where the chemist was putting out underdosed products under the subcontracted name and using the raw materials for his own line. He basically hurts the competition, takes there money and puts out his superior product. Brilliant. These guys usually end up in dumpsters. Also, there is the aspect of organized crime getting involved and wanting a piece. Those guys obviously don't care about putting out a quality product. They want to make money as fast as possible and then get out.
There is also a chance of getting ripped off by the raw material supplier although some labs use that as an excuse.
Company Reps
Ever noticed how certain guys are always mentioning a specific brand over and over and over... Nobody is going to spend 10hours a day on the boards telling everyone about the virtues of a certain brand just to help fellow bros out... They have a financial interest. These guys are usually easy to spot. A while back some Canadian boards were flooded with these guys. Every other thread was a company promotion.
Some, while more subtle to the untrained newbie eye, are easy to spot. A thread seemingly about nothing can quickly turn into a well thought out promotion. Some guys use there status or bodies as promotion, very similar to the supplement companies using Pros to
promote there products. (CellTech anyone?)
Another trick is to post a picture of the gear they have and make it seem like innocent chatter. Some of these threads are also flooded with the reps close customers trying to get a free vial of test here and there.
Honest reviews on a product spread like wildfire in the AS community. If a product is really that great, everybody will be talking about it, not just the same guys over and over again.
Okay, how do I make an educated decision on what to use?
There is always a risk involved in using UG products. The user has to accept the risks. There are, however, certain things that can help you make an educated decision:
-Does the Injectable Winstrol (winny) pass through a small gauge pin and is it virtually painless?
Injectable Winstrol is a fairly good indicator of how skilled a lab is. Making a quality, stable WATER-BASED Winstrol (winny) is the most difficult process a chemist will go through. It can easily crash. Some guys are able to micronize it (again this requires expensive lab setups). If a Winstrol (winny) injectable goes through a small gauge pin, is virtually painless and gives you immediate results, that is a sign of a quality organization.
-Does the lab come out with very unusual products that don't make any sense?
A while back a company came out with a high dosed prop (over 200mg/ml) which was painless, and I mean absolutely painless. The solution didn't even numb the tongue. Prop is the least likely faked product. If a company fakes a prop product, there other products will
most likely be fake. Also, 50mg anavar tabs do not make any sense financially.
-Does the lab never have any supply issues?
Be wary of any labs with no supply issues. Great sevice, always having a full stock does not make a lab top notch. I touched on it in the earlier paragraphs.
-Is the lab being promoted too much by the same people?
Initial hype is one thing, but good products that have been around for a few months do not need to be constantly promoted. The product sells itself.
-Are the products painless?
Prop is suppose to hurt. Enanthate is not. Again this is a function of the equipment available and the chemist's skills.
-Do the products have an unusually high concentration?
The equipment necessary to pump out 200mg/ml, 10ml Enanthate vials is much more sophisticated than the equipment required to make 500mg/ml, 20ml vials. Say you have 2kilos of enanthate, at the standard dose, you will make 1000 vials(requires machine vial filling, and
large autoclave), at the higher concentration only 200vials are made (easily filled by hand and less expensive autoclave). There are exceptions but for the most part making large amounts of standard dosed gear is more difficult than making higher dosed gear.
This does NOT mean that the lower concentrated gear is more legit. It just implies that more sophisticated equipment was used.
BigAndy69
Here's a little bit of information on how UG labs work, especially the Canadian UG scene.
I AM NOT IMPLYING THAT I KNOW ANYTHING, SO DO NOT CONTACT ME TO OBTAIN SOURCE INFO. I HAVE THIS INFORMATION BECAUSE I'VE BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE AND I HAVE SEEN A 2-3 DOZEN LAB TESTS DONE ON NUMEROUS PRODUCTS.
I will not comment on any specific brands publicly. Sorry.
What does "lab" imply?
Many people do not have a basic understanding of how these labs operate. The term "lab" plastered on a product implies that it is made in a large pharmaceutical facility. That's not the case. Anybody who claims this is full of shit(It is possible but very unlikely). Chances are it's not made in a multi-million dollar facility. A chemist is not going to risk his career and freedom by using legit lab facilities after hours for illegal activity. The money is not worth it.
There are many different possibilities but the most common method is to subcontract different chemists.
That's were the difference lies; in the skills and equipment a chemist has.
Some chemists are able to match the isomers of perservatives(Alcohol) and powders(steroids). This makes a much more stable solution. If they don't bother with this important detail, the solution can crash and the only way to mix it again is by adding a large amount of BA (Mexican gear is notorious for this as well as IP). There are many other skills like balancing BB/BA levels (BL is an expert at this). All these things that we don't even think of are factors in how good a product is.
Some chemists also have apartment room lab setups. A room is converted in a sterile environment. This is very rare as the equipment is extremely expensive in the mid 5 figure range. You also need the right hookups for the equipment.
So while a batch was made by a skilled chemist, another batch of the same product could be made by a college dropout in his parent's basement while watching old Seinfeld re-runs. There is only so many vials a chemist can pump out at a time. Ever wonder what the virtues of a 700 mg/ml enanthate are? None for the user, it's simply a way for a lab to come out with products faster. Also, the lot numbers on UG products don't mean anything.
The AS community is very tight and there are not that many chemists. Althought, you may have a couple dozen Canadian brands, most of the products come from the same guys. For example, Perutech and QFS Dbol/winny are made by the same organization.
Batch vs Batch
Tabs are usually made seperate of liquids as tab presses generate a LOT of heat(Think XTC). What I'm trying to get at is don't assume a lab's Winstrol (winny) tabs are good because their Test Enanthate was good. Same goes with the injectables. "Oh, there prop was awesome, I'm sure there Eq will be great!" Not always true.
Some products are more likely to be underdosed or counterfeits/fakes, they are:
-Oxandrolone
-Trenbolone
-Masteron
-Primobolan and other exotic steroids
-Equipose (**In Canada, as Eq is liquid at room temperature and it's a more complicated process to get it into the country**)
The first time a legit lab starts out, the products are very good, because they had plenty of time to bring the powders in and people work at low cost. Once demand picks up, all hell breaks lose and they better be prepared. There's only so much raw material a lab can
bring in and it's NEVER enough. All of a sudden, the chemists want double. They didn't exactly sign a legit contract outlining their salaries.
Cutting Corners
We need 2000 EQs ASAP but we only have raw materials for 1000. Well, you now have 100mg/ml labeled as 200mg/ml. 90% of labs will cut corners when the stress is on. Be very wary of large brands that are never out of stock. That's what made Spectro so special in the earlier days. He didn't cut corners. I remember that he was out of Eq for 2 months. It hurt him financially but he stuck to his core beliefs.
Unpredictable problems
There are many problems that can plague an UG organization. It is an illegal operation and some shady people are involved. Some of these lower level chemist can be real sleaze balls. There was a case where the chemist was putting out underdosed products under the subcontracted name and using the raw materials for his own line. He basically hurts the competition, takes there money and puts out his superior product. Brilliant. These guys usually end up in dumpsters. Also, there is the aspect of organized crime getting involved and wanting a piece. Those guys obviously don't care about putting out a quality product. They want to make money as fast as possible and then get out.
There is also a chance of getting ripped off by the raw material supplier although some labs use that as an excuse.
Company Reps
Ever noticed how certain guys are always mentioning a specific brand over and over and over... Nobody is going to spend 10hours a day on the boards telling everyone about the virtues of a certain brand just to help fellow bros out... They have a financial interest. These guys are usually easy to spot. A while back some Canadian boards were flooded with these guys. Every other thread was a company promotion.
Some, while more subtle to the untrained newbie eye, are easy to spot. A thread seemingly about nothing can quickly turn into a well thought out promotion. Some guys use there status or bodies as promotion, very similar to the supplement companies using Pros to
promote there products. (CellTech anyone?)
Another trick is to post a picture of the gear they have and make it seem like innocent chatter. Some of these threads are also flooded with the reps close customers trying to get a free vial of test here and there.
Honest reviews on a product spread like wildfire in the AS community. If a product is really that great, everybody will be talking about it, not just the same guys over and over again.
Okay, how do I make an educated decision on what to use?
There is always a risk involved in using UG products. The user has to accept the risks. There are, however, certain things that can help you make an educated decision:
-Does the Injectable Winstrol (winny) pass through a small gauge pin and is it virtually painless?
Injectable Winstrol is a fairly good indicator of how skilled a lab is. Making a quality, stable WATER-BASED Winstrol (winny) is the most difficult process a chemist will go through. It can easily crash. Some guys are able to micronize it (again this requires expensive lab setups). If a Winstrol (winny) injectable goes through a small gauge pin, is virtually painless and gives you immediate results, that is a sign of a quality organization.
-Does the lab come out with very unusual products that don't make any sense?
A while back a company came out with a high dosed prop (over 200mg/ml) which was painless, and I mean absolutely painless. The solution didn't even numb the tongue. Prop is the least likely faked product. If a company fakes a prop product, there other products will
most likely be fake. Also, 50mg anavar tabs do not make any sense financially.
-Does the lab never have any supply issues?
Be wary of any labs with no supply issues. Great sevice, always having a full stock does not make a lab top notch. I touched on it in the earlier paragraphs.
-Is the lab being promoted too much by the same people?
Initial hype is one thing, but good products that have been around for a few months do not need to be constantly promoted. The product sells itself.
-Are the products painless?
Prop is suppose to hurt. Enanthate is not. Again this is a function of the equipment available and the chemist's skills.
-Do the products have an unusually high concentration?
The equipment necessary to pump out 200mg/ml, 10ml Enanthate vials is much more sophisticated than the equipment required to make 500mg/ml, 20ml vials. Say you have 2kilos of enanthate, at the standard dose, you will make 1000 vials(requires machine vial filling, and
large autoclave), at the higher concentration only 200vials are made (easily filled by hand and less expensive autoclave). There are exceptions but for the most part making large amounts of standard dosed gear is more difficult than making higher dosed gear.
This does NOT mean that the lower concentrated gear is more legit. It just implies that more sophisticated equipment was used.
BigAndy69
Last edited:
Makes you think twice about certain posts been posted on particular labs.
