Var and ECA. How does this look...

[Conciliator]

Var will help make the muscle harden up and give you that paper skin look but it won't cut fat. no steroid will.

Sure they will. There are androgen receptors in adipocytes [1] and testosterone administration has been shown to increase lipolysis in vitro [2] and decrease fat mass in vivo [3].

 

[Conciliator]

As for using ECA i would not use it while running the cycle cuase of the BP increase.

You should definitely take EC while you're dieting, either with or without AAS. In addition to suppressing appetite and providing energy, EC has been shown to have anabolic/anti-catabolic properties (similar to clen), preventing muscle loss. Also, at normal doses, changes in blood pressure should be minor.

 

[Conciliator]

Are you eating every 3 hrs????

Eating more frequently doesn't increase your metabolism. I can provide references if you're interested. Basically, calories burned through the thermic effect of food (TEF) is a function of the quantity of food, not the frequency at which it's eaten. Eating more frequently only has a benefit on weight loss if it helps you eat fewer total calories. Even then, it's the reduction in calories that result in weight loss, not the meal frequency per se. In some, eating more frequently can help control hunger and reduce caloric intake. In others, eating frequently has been found to increase intake.

If the OP is taking EC, hunger shouldn't be a problem. He may prefer to eat 3 good sized meals that really fill him up. Or, since he doesn't have much of an appetite, he might prefer to eat smaller amounts of food throughout the day. Shouldn't make any difference on his fat loss.

 

[Conciliator]

How long for the cardio and what intensity on the empty stomach? Im assuming that i could take some BCAAs to stay out of the catabolic state.

I wouldn't do fasted cardio. With fed cardio, you can train at a higher intensity, prevent muscle loss, and get the same fat loss by the 24 hour mark after exercising. I'd read Alan Aragon's paper on this here.

Also, if you're adding cardio to a weight training program, that's fine. However, I wouldn't ever do cardio instead of weight training. Make lifting your priority. It not only burns calories to help with fat loss (like cardio), but it also preserves lean body mass. If changes in your physique are the goal, weight lifting should be primary.

 

[MS1605]

Thats the ONLY problem I have on the ECA is the loss of appetite. For instance. Today as I said I started the ECA. I start out with 10mgE/200mgC/and whatever a baby aspirin is, i forget.

I ate 2 eggs when I woke up, 2 chicken Breast at 1ish, about a half gallon of water and Just under 1 pot of black coffee and I feel absolutely no hunger at all. I play paintball religiously on the weekends so before I go tonight im going to throw down on some Beans for carbs and then some baked fish. this is REALLY not good for a 225lb man...

*I know this is a horrible meal plan for the day. I opted to paint instead of go grocery shopping and im out of the basics. No rice or potatoes for carbs, ect. I just wanted to illustrate how the ECA effects my hunger.

Meal plan will be back on point tomorrow after I hit up the grocer.

Thanks for the input Con.

 

[livebigdieyoung]

bro you gotta force yourself to eat! i know its hard but you have to eat enough so you dont lose to much of your muscle!

 

[Teutonic]

Differant people are differant...but after..say 12-20 minutes ?? you ll tap into fat deposits for energy..not just what you ate the day before..and then you ll see the fat melt...it ll take time...weeks months...and have something handy when you get off aerobics..carbs and a protien source..
How long ? The longer you do aerobics..the more you ll burn..cause and effect..
I see no problem with you maintaining weight but swapping out fat for muscle ( muscle weighs more than fat )...but your gonna go catabolic if you don t feed the machine.
I wish you well, dude..you ll do fine..

 

[Conciliator]

I start out with 10mgE/200mgC/and whatever a baby aspirin is, i forget.

Research has found that the optimum ratio of ephedrine to caffeine is somewhere around 1:10. So if you take 10mg of E, take it with 100mg of C. If you take 20mg of E, take it with 200mg of C.

Note that most ephedrine products are either ephedrine HCl or ephedrine sulfate, so they're not pure ephedrine. With either form, you get around 20 mg of actual ephedrine when you take a 25 mg tablet. So one ephedrine tablet and one 200mg caffeine tablet works well (or half of each). The smaller primatene tabs that contain 12.5mg of ephedrine HCl can be treated as 10mg of ephedrine.

 

[Conciliator]

If you raise your caloric intake to 2000 per day with EC and a high protein diet, I don't think you'll experience any muscle catabolism.

This great paper by Lyle McDonald reviews a study that suggested that you can mobilize an average of 31 Cal worth of fat per pound of fat tissue. At 225 lbs and 18% bf, you have around 40 lbs of fat to lose. That's a large energy reserve. Based on the paper above, you could expect to mobilize 40*31 = 1255 Cal/day. In other words, you should be able to get 1255 Cal worth of dietary fat into your blood stream for your body to use for fuel. A good estimate of your daily metabolic rate is body weight * 15, or 225*15 = 3375 Cal per day. If you were to eat 2000 per day, that would be a deficit of 3375-2000=1375. That's only slightly over the 1255 Cal worth of fat that you'd be expected to be able to mobilize each day. The fact that you're taking EC, which will raise the level of fat mobilization even higher, means you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

 

[MS1605]

Research has found that the optimum ratio of ephedrine to caffeine is somewhere around 1:10. So if you take 10mg of E, take it with 100mg of C. If you take 20mg of E, take it with 200mg of C.

Note that most ephedrine products are either ephedrine HCl or ephedrine sulfate, so they're not pure ephedrine. With either form, you get around 20 mg of actual ephedrine when you take a 25 mg tablet. So one ephedrine tablet and one 200mg caffeine tablet works well (or half of each). The smaller primatene tabs that contain 12.5mg of ephedrine HCl can be treated as 10mg of ephedrine.

I have 10MG tabs of HCL. I take them 10/20/break with benydril/30/30. I Have taken it like this for about 2 years and it works great. I MAY try to go up to 40MG for the last week on this run and see how I do.

The reason I always just stick with 200MG of C is because the tabs come in 200s and I dont mind extra caffeine. Considering I drink at least a pot of coffee a day anyways I never mess with cutting the tabs.

 

[Conciliator]

Var will help make the muscle harden up and give you that paper skin look but it won't cut fat. no steroid will.

Also, here's a study on this topic that was published just this month (Nov 2009).

To quote it (pg 719):

There is strong evidence that testosterone regulates fat mass in addition to well-known protein anabolic effects.2 Fat mass is increased in hypogonadal men compared to aged matched healthy men24,25 and the changes are reversed by testosterone replacement. 24–29 The effect of testosterone on body fat in hypogonadal men is similar when administered by the transdermal route. A fall in fat mass occurs by 6 months and the reduction is maintained over 36 months of treatment.24,29 Fat mass is also reduced in ageing men supplemented by testosterone treatment.30–32 The mechanisms behind the reduction in fat mass by testosterone are complex and incompletely understood.

Testosterone can act directly on fat tissue to regulate lipid storage and number of adipocytes.33 Testosterone inhibits lipid uptake by reducing lipoprotein lipase activity in adipocytes34 and enhances adrenergic stimulation of lipolysis,35 that is confirmed by human studies.36 Testosterone also regulates the cellular mass of adipose tissue by inhibiting the differentiation of adipocyte precursor cells.37 Lipid homeostasis can also be influenced by testosterone through effects on energy metabolism, specifically energy balance and lipid utilization. Testosterone deficiency is associated with decreased resting energy expenditure and lipid oxidation rate.5 Because GH stimulates fat utilization and metabolism and testosterone enhances GH secretion,38 it is possible that the effects of testosterone on fat mass may be GH mediated. However, our recent study demonstrated that testosterone stimulates whole body Fox in hypopituitary men with severe GH deficiency, providing strong evidence that androgens exert direct effect on fat metabolism.3 While the liver is a major site of Fox, the process also occurs in many extra-hepatic tissues such as muscle, heart and skin.

 

[MS1605]

Also, here's a study on this topic that was published just this month (Nov 2009).

To quote it (pg 719):

I love motherfuckers that not only know there shit but can back it with with studies. Your the man Concilator. Can you shoot me some DNP papers that will convince me I can safely take it without cooking my Mellon?

 

[MS1605]

Stupid ass question...


So I have decided to go with Axio test since a lot of the well established posters here like it. I have once source for them that checks out on Axios approved sellers list.

Now the question is, how common is it for a "good online seller" to have a shitload of negative threads about them online?

This will be my first purchase of research chems online outside nova and clomid. I dont know why but im nervous as fuck. you think living in one of the biggest cities in the world I would have some good hookups locally...

So is it somewhat common to find that a good seller online has some unhappy customers bashing away at the keyboard on a bunch of forums. I mean I realize if you sell to thousands of people the numbers are against you but the specific source I have for Axio has more then a few unhappy customers that posted all within the last year on various forums.

Any thoughts?

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

Add a cup of oatmeal for breakfast.

 

[MS1605]

I think you got into some of Biggin`s stash...

 

[dirtnap]

Have you considered or tried a CKD diet?

 

[MS1605]

Have you considered or tried a CKD diet?

Ive considered it but Im too scared of losing LBM. Right now I should be Damn close to Keto though. This is how my meals have looked for the past 4 days or so.

Meal 1.

4 eggs.
spinach
skim milk

Meal 2

Chicken
some kind of fat (avacado, almonds, etc)
green beans or spinach

Meal 3 before workout

Brown rice or a sweet potato
93% lean ground beef.

Meal 4 PWO
Chocolate milk

Meal 5
Chicken, steak or fish
green beans or spinach

basicly im only getting carbs for breakfast, pre and post WO.

again, supps im taking are ECA, LOTS of EFAs caps and multis.


yesterday my throat started feeling raw and i knew I was getting something. I woke up this morning and im all congested and my throat is fucked from post nasal drip. I have a problem where thus far, i have not found a sinus med that does anything for me. I have tried em all and they dont do shit. So im going to try and drag myself to the garage for some weight training and then cardio tonight at MMA class for 2.5 hours... We`ll see how it goes. but i feel like re fried shit.

 

[dirtnap]

Ive considered it but Im too scared of losing LBM.

I think you'd be pleased with the outcome. I find a CKD to be muscle sparing as long as your calories remain high.