Very informative forum, rethinking my first cycle, opinions/advice please?

[Tmonsterdog]

THIS WAS SUGGESTED 1ST CYCLE (ALSO WHAT I HAVE ON HAND):

TEST - SUSTABOLON 250 - ONCE PER WEEK - 10 WEEKS
Nandrolone - DECA 400 - ONCE PER WEEK - 10 WEEKS
PCT - TAMOXSIFENE (10mg/50pills) TO BEGIN 3 WEEKS AFTER CYCLE

Hello to all! I am new here and I have done my best to read and understand all the newbie and first cycle threads. Would love to have some input.
44yrs old
180 lbs
6'1"
approx. 17% body fat
2 yrs weight training, 1st six months with a certified trainer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOWEVER!! After reading through this forum I believe I should do this:

TEST ONLY- SUSTABOLON 250 - ONCE OR TWICE A WEEK FOR 10 WEEKS (?)
TAMOXSIFENE (10mg/50pills) TO BEGIN 3 WEEKS AFTER CYCLE

Thanks in advance for input and feedback. (Apologies for any errors in posting etiquette.)

 

[KingBF]

my advise would be to go to your doctor and get your test levels checked. If your levels are low enough he might put you on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). If they are still midrange or high then I would say wait to cycle keep going at it naturally.

 

[Tmonsterdog]

Thanks for reply. I will do that. I'm a naturally skinny guy and while I have seen some positive changes over the past 2 yrs, none nowhere near what I have hoped or expected. I know my diet and training has been right so it's not that. Also the DECA was suggested to me because I have chronic neck and shoulder pain and stiffness.

 

[Frank White]

First cycle should be test only. Like King said, i'd go get your test checked since your "older". I'm "old" too, so that was a little sarcasm for a Tues morn...

 

[Tmonsterdog]

First cycle should be test only. Like King said, i'd go get your test checked since your "older". I'm "old" too, so that was a little sarcasm for a Tues morn...

Lol, I hear ya! I have an appointment this Friday and will post results. Thanks for the reply!

 

[DreDay187]

You need more tamoxifen for post cycle therapy (pct), you need to add clomiphene to the tamoxifene for a better post cycle therapy (pct), and you'd likely require an AI

 

[Tmonsterdog]

You need more tamoxifen for post cycle therapy (pct), you need to add clomiphene to the tamoxifene for a better post cycle therapy (pct), and you'd likely require an AI

I thought tamoxifene was an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). What are the benefits of adding clomiphene? I know I'm showing my ignorance here but from what I've read I thought they all served the same purpose? When I do my 1st cycle I will only do test, with a PCT.

 

[MustangDX]

I thought tamoxifene was an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). What are the benefits of adding clomiphene? I know I'm showing my ignorance here but from what I've read I thought they all served the same purpose? When I do my 1st cycle I will only do test, with a PCT.

You need to run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during cycle to keep your estrogen levels in check. Your PCT will consist of a Nolvadex/Clomid combo...

Read this, it's a great thread that explains everything...

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...-aromatize-inhibitors-gyno-pct-must-read.html

 

[DreDay187]

I thought tamoxifene was an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). What are the benefits of adding clomiphene? I know I'm showing my ignorance here but from what I've read I thought they all served the same purpose? When I do my 1st cycle I will only do test, with a PCT.

You need to run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during cycle to keep you estrogen levels in check. Your PCT will consist of a Nolvadex/Clomid combo...

Read this, it's a great thread that explains everything...

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...-aromatize-inhibitors-gyno-pct-must-read.html

Exactly as Mustang pointed out, tamoxifen/nolvadex is a SERM not an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Tamoxifen is especially useful in gyno prevention/reversal and helps protect against the effects of Estrogen in many bodily tissues while in others it mimics it's effects. Same thing with clomiphene/clomid, it's another SERM. Clomid is especially useful in helping restart the HPTA bc it is effective at binding to the estrogen receptor in the hypothalamus and trick the brain into thinking there is less estrogen than actually exists. The combo of nolva and clomid is much more potent than either alone bc they do slightly different things in different tissue and nolva makes clomid fight harder for receptor affinity making it more effective. An Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like anastrozole/arimidex or exemestane/aromasin is used to actually lower estrogen and counter the many side effects related to high estrogen. HCG is used to prevent testicular atrophy and keep the testes somewhat functional even while suppressed from the AAS.

 

[Tmonsterdog]

Okay I have had bloodwork done but I am waiting for results. I read and reread steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/629345-how-serm-s-aromatize-inhibitors-gyno-pct-must-read.html ,
The thread and you guys are saying to use a combination of 2 SERMS. BUT, then in the same thread it lists this as an example:

1#
Wk1-12 500mg teste ew
Wk1-14 0.6mg e3d (2X a week) Letro
Wk14-18 PCT Clomid 50mg ed

So, when I run my 1st cycle it will be 500 mgs of test (Sustabol 250 twice a week).
I understand I need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) now. BUT, his own example only lists 1 SERM for post cycle therapy (pct)? If I add Tamoxifen-Teva to the Clomid... how much do I need of the Tamoxifen-Teva every day? and since he only lists only 1 SERM in his 1st example...could I get away with using just the Tamoxifen-Teva for post cycle therapy (pct)? If so how much?

 

[KingBF]

clomid and nolva together will be your best bet. yes you could get away with one but they not the same. they do two different things...

 

[MustangDX]

PCT:

Clomid: 50/50/50/50- Nolva: 40/40/20/20

 

[Tmonsterdog]

Thanks so much for replies! I am researching stickies and threads but still a few questions. For one, I have found the liquid versions of these SERMS and AIs to be extremely cheaper than the tab forms. I guess because of tabs being the easier form? Also it seems that Letro is the better Aromatase inhibitor (AI) over Anastrozole? And how beneficial would an Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) be for me? Recommended or not?

Wk1-10 500mg teste ew (Sustobolon 250)
Wk1-10 0.6mg e3d (2X a week) Letro
Wk14-18 PCT Clomid: 50/50/50/50- Nolva: 40/40/20/20

 

[MustangDX]

Thanks so much for replies! I am researching stickies and threads but still a few questions. For one, I have found the liquid versions of these SERMS and AIs to be extremely cheaper than the tab forms. I guess because of tabs being the easier form? Also it seems that Letro is the better Aromatase inhibitor (AI) over Anastrozole? And how beneficial would an Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) be for me? Recommended or not?

Wk1-10 500mg teste ew (Sustobolon 250)
Wk1-10 0.6mg e3d (2X a week) Letro
Wk14-18 PCT Clomid: 50/50/50/50- Nolva: 40/40/20/20

IMO, You should run your cycle at least 12 weeks.

Based on your current 10 week cycle plan, you would run your PCT weeks 13-16.

 

[Tmonsterdog]

IMO, You should run your cycle at least 12 weeks.

Based on your current 10 week cycle plan, you would run your PCT weeks 13-16.

I was wondering about that myself...but have enough test for 250mg twice a week for 10 weeks...should I vary dosages (lower certain weeks) to make it last 12 weeks? Or would that be self defeating? Thank you for the correction on my PCT.

 

[MustangDX]

I was wondering about that myself...but have enough test for 250mg twice a week for 10 weeks...should I vary dosages (lower certain weeks) to make it last 12 weeks? Or would that be self defeating? Thank you for the correction on my PCT.

I would just hold off on the cycle until I had enough for 12 weeks personally. If you got another vial you could even do a 14 week cycle. It's going to take 4-6 weeks for the long esters of your Sustanon (sust) to kick-in and you would be ending your cycle shortly after at 10 weeks.

It wouldn't be beneficial to vary dosages, just to drag out a cycle because you want to keep your blood levels as stable as possible.

 

[Tmonsterdog]

Okay, so bloodwork results are back and everything is normal. I've done more reading and here are my updated stats followed by my revised plan for my 1st cycle.

Age 44 yrs
176.6 lbs
10% bodyfat

Weeks 1 - 13 500mg test ew (Sustobolon 250 2x week)
Weeks 1 - 13 0.25mg Letro twice per week (Liquid Letro)
Weeks 16-19 PCT Clomid (Liquid Clomi) 50/50/50/50 (every day for 4 weeks)
Nolva (Liquid Tamox) 40/40/20/20 (every day for 4 weeks)

Question concerning my AI! I have seen suggestions for the letro for eod, e3d and twice per week. As of right now I am considering just twice per week. Maybe on days that I inject? Thoughts?

 

[Kazmir]

I find letro overkill as an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) personally, its very easy to tank your E2 levels with letro. Aromasin or Arimidex would be the better choice IMO but everything else is spot on

 

[Tmonsterdog]

I find letro overkill as an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) personally, its very easy to tank your E2 levels with letro. Aromasin or Arimidex would be the better choice IMO but everything else is spot on

Thanks much for the reply Kazmir. The more I read the more I am hearing the same sentiment about letro. From the stickies and threads that I first came across it seemed that Letro was the best choice. SO.... that's what I have now. I'm thinking of just dosing it at 0.25mg twice per week. Trying to search around on here for more info on using it as an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). All I'm coming up with so far though is info on Letro for gyno problems.

 

[MustangDX]

Thanks much for the reply Kazmir. The more I read the more I am hearing the same sentiment about letro. From the stickies and threads that I first came across it seemed that Letro was the best choice. SO.... that's what I have now. I'm thinking of just dosing it at 0.25mg twice per week. Trying to search around on here for more info on using it as an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). All I'm coming up with so far though is info on Letro for gyno problems.

Letro @0.25mgs/2xWeek(Mon/Thurs) is a good start and then adjust accordingly based on your mid-cycle bloods. Also, as usual, watch out for signs of a crashed e2 or a high e2...