Vet's & Mod's .......... Help with GH Question...

[PA-Muscle]

What GH cycle option would you chose?

Goal: Fat lose while adding some LBM

A.) 2iu ED................................. for 26 wks
B.) 3iu ED..................................for 17 wks
C.) 3iu ED 5 on 2 off .................for 21 wks

Also......... would you suggest to break this small amount into 2 injections per day or just one?

Stats: 44yrs old, Height 5'-10", wt. 230lbs, bf 10.5%

Other Supps added into cycle are: 300mg Test Enth & 200mg Deca every 5 days along with 12.5mcg of T3 ED & thinking about adding DiaBest-2 about 3-4 wk's into cycle to help with Insulin Insensitivity........

Peace Out!

 

[JohnnyB]

I'd go with A, as a matter of fact that's what i'll be starting in 3 weeks. Read Nandi12's article on t3, you may change your mind on using it with HGH.

JohnnyB

 

[BigSoda]

agree go with a,imo 26 weeks is better than b,and c

 

[PA-Muscle]

Thanks JohnnyB and Bigsoda for your opinions............This is what I thinking as well............

JohnnyB .......... I think I remember reading that thread (Nandi12 is a wealth of information)...........I seem to remember it pertaining to people using T3 (dosages up to 125mcg) to stimulate their metabolism as well trying to offset a de-sensitized Thyroid gland.......The dosage amount of 12.5mcg IMO is just enough to stimulate the Thyroid gland thus substantially improving Protein Synthesis........while not enough to affect the Thyroid adversely........Please correct me if I'm wrong! ..........

Peace Out!

 

[ironmaster]

If this is your first GH cycle, instead try 4iu ED. I'm guessing you have 13 weeks worth at this dose. 2iu is an excellent maintenance dose once you have achieved the changes in body comp that you want. I imagine johnny has a few GH cycles under his belt already and is maintaining.
Most of the folks I have talked to who were not happy with GH used too little or didn't use long enough the first time out. Your BF% is already good. To see obvious changes, you may need more. (after 4iu for 13 weeks of quality hGH, you will be re-ordering.....I started GH in my 40's also, and was so impressed that it's a year-round supplement for me now).
12.5 of the T3 is probably safe. I'm not a big T3 fan just cause it makes me feel like shit and I find I don't need it to stay below 10% BF with regular GH use. Generally, at about 8 weeks into a cycle you can tell if you need T3 and finish with it if necessary.
Why not just use insulin? The hGH down-regulation of insulin sensitivity is much more an issue than the T3.

 

[Rhino58]

I would agree with iron, 4 iu instead.

 

[PA-Muscle]

Thank-you IronMaster for your response..........I will go ahead an jump up to 4iu ED for the next 13 weeks and then think about dropping back down to a maintenance amount at that time.

Question: Would you break up this amount into two injections? If so at what times do you recommend?

In regards to why not add insulin to my cycle................Reason: I'm flat out afraid of it.........Since I'm not concerned with increasing overall body mass .......I'm hoping I'll get away with just using Dia-Best2 which should help stimulate my own bodies ability to use insulin better.

I only take T3 in order to improve protein synthesis and not to worried about down regulation of my thyroid gland.

Thank-you again for your valued opinion..........Bro.......I've heard many great things about you and your knowledge on GH.........

Peace Out!

 

[PA-Muscle]

Thanks Rhino58 for your opinion as well ..........

Peace Out!

 

[ironmaster]

PA.....it's obvious that you have thought this out and done your homework. You ask all the right questions.

I inject 2 times daily when using more than 2iu. First thing in the AM and again in the late afternoon after lifting is what works best for me. These are "flat" times in our production of endoGH. I always use insulin with the GH injections, so bedtime is not an option for me. A number of good brothers (and SG) prefer bedtime for a variety of reasons. Rather than repeating that discussion, I would refer you to a very good thread in the archives on the timing issue. I will say this.......whether one uses insulin or not, exoGH can cause hypoglycemic type reactions due to it's effect on insulin sensitivity, and I want to be able to monitor my glucose levels, so bedtime doesn't work for me. GH is expensive stuff, and I make sure to get the maximum results possible.

I am currently using Nutropin Depot, a timed release GH, which changes all the rules on timing....but I won't confuse the issue with that.

You have a good understanding of T3, so make your own call there. The case against T3 is widely exaggerated, anyway. I'm sure you know there is some degree of recovery time involved after a T3 cycle, but no big deal.

Insulin is really not that scary.....no more so than T3.....when used with some common sense. I used to bulk extensively with high insulin doses, and that does take some extra precautions. But generally, I use insulin in the same way you plan to use the thyroid med.....a very modest dose of fast acting humalog in tangent with and to compliment the exoGH. But to each his own. Let me know how you do with dia-best. Prescription Avandia is the only non-insulin med that seems to effectively replace insulin (according to the limited research available) for bodybuilder's purposes that I am aware of, so I'll be interested in your progress.

 

[PA-Muscle]

Thank-you "IronMaster" .............for taking the time to answer my question.......I will break up my dosage into 2 injections one AM and the other........ either after workout or before bedtime...I think I'll try it both ways (3-4wk's each way) and see if I can tell the difference...

In Regards to using Dia-Best2 instead of Insulin..........I know you're right but ......... since I'm too intimidated about using Insulin........I've heard from a couple all knowing Vet's .......That Dia-Best2 is an adequate alternative to Insulin.........In light of my GH dosage and desired goals to achieve...

IronMaster or ?........If you get a chance.......Please give me your opinion on the statement below:...

It's my understanding that Insulin is not necessary if your goal on GH. is to Reduce BF while still increasing a little in quality LBM......Using GH without Slin one is suppose to achieve a great amount of Vascularity, Hardness & Substantially Improved Body Composition....Along with the look of paper thin skin....etc. It is important to note........that a persons % of BF needs to be low enough before starting cycle in order to obtain the types of results mentioned above.

Peace Out!

 

[ironmaster]

Question for you, PA.........wouldn't you want to get bigger AND leaner at the same time?

When I was your age, I hit that "final plateau". I couldn't get more mass without gaining body fat, and when I cut, I lost muscle. Increasing steroid doses didn't help either. GH was the answer for changing body comp, but, like all bb'ers, I always seek more size and strength. The addition of insulin with GH allowed me to get bigger and leaner at the same time. I was about your size and weight before, now I'm 245 and a little leaner.....and I'm 10 years older than you.

It really comes down to trial and error. Everyone's different, and we all have to decide what look we are after and then experiment. Most of what I say is from 25 years of experimentation. Doesn't mean it's right for everyone, but what works for me is lots of test, deca or eq or tren (preferably deca), an oral like dbol or anavar, and GH/insulin.

 

[PA-Muscle]

Yes "IronMaster" you are correct........I hit a plateau..... seems like a lifetime ago......And Yes.........I would like to be able to put on Quality LBM while at the same time drop 2-3 % in BF.....

What would you recommend I do in the way of adding Insulin into my cycle? 10 iu's......1 hour after 1st GH injection?........... (this has previously been suggested to me).......If you get a chance and feel like answering this question..........I'm all Ears!

Peace Out!

 

[ironmaster]

For the maximum anabolic environment to exist for lean growth, we need to have all the right hormones present at the same time. To accomplish this, we have to overcome the body's feedback defense mechanisms. That's why we supplement GH, test, insulin, IGF-1 and T3.
If you decide to try insulin, use humalog. It's the best choice for use with GH. GH and Humalog have nearly matching half-lifes, and compliment one another well. I inject both at the same time. You should start with 4iu and slowly work up to 10iu tops. This is not a bulking dose, but rather, a dose to assure insulin utilization. After 15 min., take in a drink of primarily complex and some simple carbs with protein (75/25 ratio). An hour later, you can eat a light meal of protein and complex carbs. No fat at all for 2 hours.
I use insulin with both daily GH shots, but you might start out with just the afternoon dose. If you take your time and increase the dose very gradually, you will have no problems.
Take photos of the same poses every week to monitor your results.....pics don't lie. If you think you look too smooth at the half-way point, taper back the insulin and adjust your diet.
And let me know how it works out for you.

I can usually tell where I'm at from the vascularity in my forearms:

 

[PA-Muscle]

Thank-you ......."IronMaster" for getting back to me with your recommendations.........I'm going to try and sike myself up for adding in insulin with my GH cycle............Soon I hope!................I'll let you know when I take the leap.....Thanks again!

Oh Ya........I almost forgot............Awesome Forearms Bro..........Massive Vascularity..........

Peace Out!