What can I do different? Another lump...

[synonymous]

OK, last week I did my right quad. I was in bed, allowed the oil to 'settle' if that's what it does, had no lump, no redness, no soreness, nothing. It seemed like I had figured things out. Friday I did my left quad in the exact same spot, the exact same method, in bed, just before sleep, allowing it to settle. EVERYTHING was the same...but on Sunday I felt the beginnings of a small lump, that got a bit bigger and today it's pinkish (Like all previous lumps). I have NO idea what I did differently. I pinned the EXACT same spot.

I don't know if this really makes a difference or not but the day after the right quad injection I had a light upper body workout. The day after the left quad injection I had a light lower body workout and HIIT on the stationary bike. Just throwing that out there if it makes a difference. I also missed my Adex dose the day after the right quad injection...again, if that makes a difference.

Today I pinned my right delt. The pin slipped from my hand while in the muscle and did a swing as though I had the needle in in the wrong way and it straightened itself out. Is there a way someone should pin as far as angles go?

Sorry for all these lump threads...I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong or if there's some easier way of handle this issue. My doc says it could be anything from alcohol left over on the skin (I make sure the alcohol is dry, naturally, before injecting) or that perhaps there was some bacteria still on the skin. I would imagine a lump every time if it were bad gear.

 

[oldmusclemike]

Ok my friend, you really are over thinking and a bit paranoid. Well that's to be expected with newbies to this. SO.....

From time to time as much as 40% if so you will be sore PIP for a host of reasons. I pin right quad and as smooth as can be. No injection pain, no PIP. Sometimes I go to the same spot on the left and ouch, an blood and PIP maybe or not. I pin somewhere no problem no blood and God awful PIP.

WE can say it's this or that, but in the end we try to do better and it is what ir=t is.

REMEMBER if sterile not much of anything can go wrong , or hurt you medically.
No redness sometimes ok.

However if you have all the bad symptoms great pain, swelling and redness, then watch it carefully. Now if it really hurts and gets HOT.. HOT to the touch you probably have an infection and should go to the doctor for antibiotics

The pain and heat to the touch is important, and not good. But really if that ensues you won't miss the fact of it is an infection.

Please you are over thinking. Settle down it is a small pin (needle) can't do much, the compounds bother us and lets face it our body's don't like to be pinned.

NOW OP, I also have told you that the Quads for many people are very sensitive, bleed and cause much PIP. You should pin your glute. You said can't do that yet. Listen, find the spot, look it up on the internet. Take a pen and without the ink push at the spot and make an indentation mark.

Get ready and look as best you can, and you can and with one hand STAB with no hesitation , all the way in. Plunge with one hand or with two. If it wiggles a LITTLE so what just some PIP big boy. If blood upon your withdraw, SO WHAT wipe it off until it stops. This is Standard operating Procedures.
You almost cannot fuck it up. Now stab your ass next time, oh and when you do quads, just sit in a fvkin chair so you can see what you ate doing and you can easily use both hands, Good luck.

Anymore Q's

 

[oldmusclemike]

EWhat size are you using 23G 1" or 25G 5/8" or what gauge and length

 

[Needtogetaas]

1) Tissue Irritation
This is probably the most likely cause of post injection pain and the least serious. Tissue irritation is likely to start 12-24 hours after injection, pain can be mild to moderate depending on the level of tissue irritation and the volume injected. The injection site is likely to swell within the muscle, maybe red and likely to be warm and very firm to the touch. The pain and swelling will start to fade after 72 hours and can last over a week in the worst cases. The most likely causes of tissue irritation are:
The hormone crashes out of the solution in the depot. This causes crystallisation of the hormone, this in turn places a lot of pressure on the nerve endings in the muscle belly causing knotting, swelling and pain - this is most common in long chain esters, high mg/ml concentration gear and gear compounded with less than idea oil blends.
A reaction to the acid compounds within the ester. With the ********* breakdown of the ester attached to the hormone free form acids are released which can cause the muscle tissue rapid irritation at the injection site ***8211; this is most common with propionic acid of the propionate ester. Poor quality raw materials also liberate more freeform acids.

Newb muscles. Of course everyone knows your first injections are the worst. Over time your body will build a tolerance.

Excessive preservative. If too much benzyl Alcohol is used to formulate the solution inflammation and pain may result. Pharma grade usually contains 0.9% Benzyl alcohol where the common senseu states UGL products contain on average 2%. Anything above 1.2% offers no added anti-microbial effects. Due to water soluable nature of benzyl alcohol tissue irritation of this nature has been known to ***8220;travel***8221; as the excessive alcohol disperses via the blood stream. This is most common with injection into the quads (vastus lateralis).The pain travels down toward the knee. This may however be in part due to lymphatic drainage and leads me nicely to my next point.
Ice and ibuprofen may help with the swelling. Hot baths, showers and massage of the injection site may help to distribute the injection and reduce pain.

2) Hitting the lymphatic system.
Hitting the lymphatic system is very rare. The lymphatic system is as vast as the circulatory system but the standard injection sights (Glute, ventro-glute, medial delts and vastus lateralis) are generally void of lymphatic nodes. If a lymph node is hit with an injection pain is likely to be severe and edema vast. The swelling will come on very fast and be extensive. It is also likely to ***8220;travel***8221; along the lymph system to the next lymph gland. This is most noticeable with a vastus lateralis shot where the swelling tracks down toward the back of the knee. Unlike the edema experienced with tissue irritation (within the muscle only) the edema with a lymphatic puncture will be both inter and intra-muscular with a moderate amount of swelling just underneath the skin giving it a softer puffy feel. This can be tested for by pressing the swollen area with your finger, if in indent remains you have a more systematic edema and more than just local tissue irritation. The other most noticeable difference is that the swelling should not be warm/hot to touch.
Ice and ibuprofen may help. The affected area must be rested and the patient can expect pain and swelling to start to disperse after 72 hours and last at least 10 days. The painful area must not be massaged.

3) Infection and abscess.
So now to the most serious reason for injection pain. An infection will start in the same manner as tissue irritation with local pain and swelling, with heat and redness around the muscle. The major difference is that after 72 hours tissue irritation should start to subside, if the area is indeed infected this pain and swelling will get worse. The swelling will change in nature becoming more systematic and edema will start to form under the skin becoming softer and more spongy (as described with a lymphatic puncture).

There are many reasons why an infection can manifest, below are some of the most common examples.
Poor injection technique. Correct, and sterile injection technique is a must. You must make sure the injection site and rubber stopper is clean and swabbed with an alcohol wipe.
Also the moisture from the alcohol swab must be allowed to dry before preparing to inject. It is extremely rare but if the alcohol is not allowed to dry the bacterium has not been allowed adequate time to be killed off. If this partly destroyed bacterium was then pushed into a muscle through an Inter-muscular injection the bacterium can ***8220;evolve***8221; into a superbug. You should always use a clean and new syringe barrel and pin and not allow the pin to touch anything before you inject. Avoid pinning through a hair follicle or hair and don***8217;t be tempted to inject too quickly. Injecting too quickly can increase the risk of infection as this in turn increases injection trauma.
Not rotating injection sites. The risk of infection is massively increased if the same injection site is used over and over again without giving it time to recover. The more an injury (injection trauma) is irritated (re-injected) the more likely it is to become infected. Think back to being a child and picking that scab on your knee excessively and then being told ***8220;I told you so***8221; when it becomes a yellow puss infected mess.
Contaminated Gear. IMO this is probably the least common cause of infection with oil based injections (I cannot say the same for water based injections). This is a no brainer really. Use a reputable UGL or pharma and avoid water based suspensions.

What to do in the case of an infection.

So the pain and swelling has not subsided and the edema is pitting and moving outside the confides of the muscle fascia after 72 hours. With an infection the body is attempting to contain the bacterium and prevent it from
reaching the circulatory system by forming a cyst. This is essential to prevent blood poisoning

GET TO A DOCTOR RIGHT AWAY AND HAVE HIM TAKE A LOOK AT YOU. THERE IS NO DOCTORS ON THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You need medical help at this point.

 

[synonymous]

EWhat size are you using 23G 1" or 25G 5/8" or what gauge and length

Thanks.

I've actually got 24 gauge 32mm pins. I was told in another thread that this was an unusual gauge but it's what I have.

The pain is fine. I can handle it. The lumps, OK not a problem. Then it gets pinkish and warm to touch. I start to freak out a bit (I've had cellulitis twice because of a foot injury I didn't clean properly...so infections are something I get all girlie about). The pinkish goes away after about 4 or 5 days and the lump takes 10 days to 2 weeks. I've got a weeks worth of antibiotics just in case.

I thought PIP was just soreness. No lump, no change in color. Just sore. And I get them only in my legs. My delts, not a problem. I have had lumps but no pinkish color and the lump goes away faster.

I will try the glutes and use your pen indentation idea. I actually did 2 glute shots in the very beginning. Again, first shot, no issue. Second shot, lump, pinkish, warm. I wish I could just know why...if I could I would not care about the PIP at all.

Thanks for all the advice. I know quads are sensitive but I've seen people on here do quad shots and have no problem and were thankful for being persuaded to go with quads as they are easy to reach.

ETA:

@Needtogetaas

Thanks for that information. Great stuff!! I'm using 250mg/ml test e. I'm injecting 65mg each time. I'm wondering if I should get the 100mg/ml test e next time.

 

[oldmusclemike]

Great post Today, 12:21 PM #4 Needtogetaas !! WE all learned allot. Sorry my explanation is a layman's view.

OP see you got it all here on this forum and from someone in the know...^^^^., As Needto~ explains technically what I implied not much to worry about except if an infection.

 

[3J]

how long is it taking you to inject?? slow down your injection that should help alot

 

[oldmusclemike]

Me again with a word OP/ "Synonymous" In truth you have just gotten advice by the best of the best on this forum. There is NO bro-science said here from these guys. The are in the know, me well I've just been in it since 1980 haa! From Old School to the new more Science.

Just gotta say no one has posted yet on this one and the first you've heard is from the Vets. Your in good hands here. More might chime in and that will be good. The info you have received thus far is from education and experience and there comes the Wisdom.

Good luck man be safe and sterile. Oldmusclemike

 

[Needtogetaas]

Also check your temperature if I did not mention that...if that goes up you got an infection