what reasons do you run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on cycle and not post?

[nagasawa]

what reasons do you run hcg on cycle and not post?

I'm just curious why a lot of people on this board feel hcg on cycle is better than post cycle? no one gives reasoning but just says to not do it

 

[glubgawd]

HCG is suppressive. That makes it counterproductive to the goals of PCT.

Not sure how specific of an answer you wanted.

 

[drewbolic]

it mimics LH and the goal of pct is to get HPTA working correctly.Luteinizing hormone (LH) is suppressed durring cycle this is why(and other reasons like teste size)HCG is used during cycle.
This is widely debated in the AAS world whether Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is safe to use post cycle.

 

[cashout]

It really can be done either way. There are lots of the variables that drive this decision for each person.

Personally, I've done it both ways and had success either way.

I've used it after a cycle as part of the protocol to restore endogenous test production. One consideration to remember, you need to get your blood drawn several times during this process to ensure you've accomplished the goal.

I've used it on cycle with the intention of staving off testicular atrophy.

I've used it as part of HRT as I do now.

So there are a lot of considerations for how one might incorporate Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) into their process.

I don't think one can argue that there is only "one right way" to incorporate Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) into your process. However, around here, there are a lot of folks that seem to think that.

Regards.

 

[drewbolic]

It really can be done either way. There are lots of the variables that drive this decision for each person.

Personally, I've done it both ways and had success either way.

I've used it after a cycle as part of the protocol to restore endogenous test production. One consideration to remember, you need to get your blood drawn several times during this process to ensure you've accomplished the goal.

I've used it on cycle with the intention of staving off testicular atrophy.

I've used it as part of HRT as I do now.

So there are a lot of considerations for how one might incorporate Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) into their process.

I don't think one can argue that there is only "one right way" to incorporate Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) into your process. However, around here, there are a lot of folks that seem to think that.

Regards.

Its a little different when using it as part of trt.
Have you used it after a period of heavy suppression from cycling AAS as part of pct?
Its very common to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to minipulate a rise in exo-T but not very common to be part of a pct protocol

 

[glubgawd]

Personally, I've done it both ways and had success either way.

In addition to what drew said, I'd be careful with statements like this.

Example - I've run a 16 week cycle of test + dbol + deca and didn't use ANY pct whatsoever. I recovered just fine. Does that mean that not using any PCT is an effective way of recovering from this cycle? Nope. Means I got lucky.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

while I will agree there are a few different ways to run a PROPER post cycle therapy (pct), running Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during the time you are trying to stimulate LH with a SERM is not one of them.

When you put Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) in your body it mimics the LH signal. Your body see's that there is plenty of LH so why would it send the signal? So if your trying to stimulate T production by increasing LH with SERM why would it makes sense to also use a compound that suppresses LH simultaneously?????? Bottomline it doesnt, cant argue that one.

people give advice sometimes based on what has worked for them in the past, like Glub said just caused it worked doesnt mean you couldnt have got even better results.

 

[cashout]

Its a little different when using it as part of trt.
Have you used it after a period of heavy suppression from cycling AAS as part of pct?
Its very common to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to minipulate a rise in exo-T but not very common to be part of a pct protocol

Yes... successfully many times. I have plenty of blood draws to support its use this way.


Regards.

 

[cashout]

I think you misunderstand how I am using the term PCT.

Anything that comes after my last shot of AAS, I consider post cycle therapy (pct). I don't separate my definition of PCT based on when I start using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or SERM. Whatever it is, if it comes after the last AAS shot, I call it PCT.

Some people have Pre-PCT and post cycle therapy (pct). I don't muddy the idea that way. Again, if its after the last shot of AAS, its all PCT to me.

So, let me explain.

At the conclusion of my last cycle, 2.5 years ago, I used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) in the following way...

Last shot of test e....waited 14 days. Based on half-life calculation this duration provided an approximation of my normal endogenous teat level. Had blood drawn and total test was 1201 ng/dl, free t was 176 pg/ml, and estrogen was 32 pg/ml.

Shot 1,500 ius of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on Monday, Thursday, Sunday, Tuesday and lastly on Friday.

Began Clomid 100 mgs daily the following Monday (to account for the biphasitc peeks of HCG) and continued my PCT for the next 5 weeks. Also continued Adex on Mon/Thur at .5 mg.

During the 6th week, I had my labs done and came back with a total test level of 1048 ng/dl, free t 201 pg/ml, and estrogen was 21 pg/ml.

Overall, I'd say that was a pretty successful course of action to restore endogenous test.

I've used that process several times in the last 10 years. Each time, it produced great results.

Regards.

 

[drewbolic]

I think you misunderstand how I am using the term PCT.

Anything that comes after my last shot of AAS, I consider post cycle therapy (pct). I don't separate my definition of PCT based on when I start using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or SERM. Whatever it is, if it comes after the last AAS shot, I call it PCT.

Some people have Pre-PCT and post cycle therapy (pct). I don't muddy the idea that way. Again, if its after the last shot of AAS, its all PCT to me.

So, let me explain.

At the conclusion of my last cycle, 2.5 years ago, I used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) in the following way...

Last shot of test e....waited 14 days. Based on half-life calculation this duration provided an approximation of my normal endogenous teat level. Had blood drawn and total test was 1201 ng/dl, free t was 176 pg/ml, and estrogen was 32 pg/ml.

Shot 1,500 ius of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on Monday, Thursday, Sunday, Tuesday and lastly on Friday.

Began Clomid 100 mgs daily the following Monday (to account for the biphasitc peeks of HCG) and continued my PCT for the next 5 weeks. Also continued Adex on Mon/Thur at .5 mg.

During the 6th week, I had my labs done and came back with a total test level of 1048 ng/dl, free t 201 pg/ml, and estrogen was 21 pg/ml.

Overall, I'd say that was a pretty successful course of action to restore endogenous test.

I've used that process several times in the last 10 years. Each time, it produced great results.

Regards.

Ok thats slightly different,you blasted the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to get you testes full and ready to recover but it was before you started the serm protocol not during

 

[jgod]

In addition to what drew said, I'd be careful with statements like this.

Example - I've run a 16 week cycle of test + dbol + deca and didn't use ANY post cycle therapy (pct) whatsoever. I recovered just fine. Does that mean that not using any post cycle therapy (pct) is an effective way of recovering from this cycle? Nope. Means I got lucky.

Dude did you do that just for fun as an experiment or something?? Thats hardcore my friend! No feeling like shiz for months?

 

[riprockwell]

I agree with DET-OAK on this one. I have used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) both during a cycle and at the end of a cycle. Personally I would run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) throughout your cycle. In simple terms, it is better to keep the horse in the barn rather than chase it across two counties.

 

[Repo]

I think the "how & why" is starting to make sense ... "I think?"

So - during a cycle LH is suppressed and this is why you use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during the cycle ... because Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) mimics the LH signal.

After the last pin of the cycle - LH is still suppressed for the duration of the pins compound...

And this is why you're able to still run (or blast) Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) up to 4 days prior to pct (because LH is still suppressed) ... This brings you to your pct (SERM)...

So - by running (or blasting) Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) after the last pin - your trying to stimulate as much T production as possible ... the SERM will then take over from there by increasing the LH signal and start producing T.

By the way - blasting Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is something I've learned from reading DET's posts and will try at the end of this cycle.

Anyhow - does tis sound correct?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I think the "how & why" is starting to make sense ... "I think?"

So - during a cycle LH is suppressed and this is why you use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during the cycle ... because Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) mimics the LH signal.

After the last pin of the cycle - LH is still suppressed for the duration of the pins compound...

And this is why you're able to still run (or blast) Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) up to 4 days prior to pct (because LH is still suppressed) ... This brings you to your pct (SERM)...

So - by running (or blasting) Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) after the last pin - your trying to stimulate as much T production as possible ... the SERM will then take over from there by increasing the LH signal and start producing T.

By the way - blasting Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is something I've learned from reading DET's posts and will try at the end of this cycle.

Anyhow - does tis sound correct?

yes thats correct. also though during the T decline the goal is to get the testes producing T at maximal capacity like you said, in addition to that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will stimulate GNRH at this time, since the exogenous T will be leaving your system and not suppressingit anymore (AS MUCH).

GNRH gives you the material to make the T ot of of, without enough of it your balls can only make so much.

 

[Repo]

yes thats correct. also though during the T decline the goal is to get the testes producing T at maximal capacity like you said, in addition to that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will stimulate GNRH at this time, since the exogenous T will be leaving your system and not suppressingit anymore (AS MUCH).

GNRH gives you the material to make the T ot of of, without enough of it your balls can only make so much.

That's cool stuff!!!

I'm going to have to read this several more time to get it to really sink in.

Thanks DET!

 

[penny-wise]

I noticed that everyone is saying he should be using a SERM PCT.... But there is nothing saying he is even using a Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during his cycle. He should be using some adex at least during his cycle for the SERM to be effective during his post cycle therapy (pct). This is based off the example given;
Example - I've run a 16 week cycle of test + dbol + deca and didn't use ANY pct whatsoever. I recovered just fine. Does that mean that not using any PCT is an effective way of recovering from this cycle? Nope. Means I got lucky.

 

[Teutonic]

This thread was referring to Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) , when and why...you bring up a valid question but not necesarily relevant to the topic at hand..no disrespect my man. I prefer Aromatase inhibitor (AI) s over SERMS as I don t do pct..ever.
But I do do Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 125 x e 3 d.
It would appear forever with my trt.
Oak has alway s been a source I turn to in understanding the interactions of all this.
He s really smart and well versed...for a damn yankee sumbitch that is..
T ( Euro trash redneck )

 

[UserAt204]

Det Oak would there be any use in injecting GnRH during the cycle,blast, or post cycle therapy (pct). I see several places selling this now but there is not a lot about it's use. I'm trying to determine if there's any use for it. The only guys I know who have used it are on trt/hrt.

 

[RJ]

I noticed that everyone is saying he should be using a SERM post cycle therapy (pct).... But there is nothing saying he is even using a Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during his cycle. He should be using some adex at least during his cycle for the SERM to be effective during his post cycle therapy (pct). This is based off the example given;
Example - I've run a 16 week cycle of test + dbol + deca and didn't use ANY post cycle therapy (pct) whatsoever. I recovered just fine. Does that mean that not using any post cycle therapy (pct) is an effective way of recovering from this cycle? Nope. Means I got lucky.

and to add to Teut's post, you shouldn't be saying he SHOULD be doing some Adex during his cycle. Plenty of people don't use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during cycles and recover just fine, even though I don't see where that has anything to do with a SERM being effective anyway?

 

[cashout]

I don't see where that has anything to do with a SERM being effective anyway?

Again, this is outside the OP's initial question but there has been at least one study that I've read that demonstrated an interaction effect between Nolva and Letro. The efficacy of Letro was reduced almost 20% by the concurrent use of Nolva. So again, shouldn't use them concurrently during PCT.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11850211

Regards.