which AAS gains are retainable After PCT?

[fitguy22]

EQ and Anavar are both very anabolic compounds and these will not cause water retention.. these are quality steroids.... I've been doing a lot of research on stuff like this... wayy to indepth to get off topic with in a thread like this...


but both Anavar and EQ gains would be dry, so if your talking about losing all the water once your levels go back to normal.. ideally EQ and anavar would have little to no water - diet dependent that is

you should make another thread about it then, a lot of people could use that extra knowledge bro.

 

[FlyMolo]

This is more like what was explained to me before I came here and began absorbing mad knowledge.

Just remember because it is on the internet doesn't make it knowledge.

Point in fact what I just said. If every person that I know who used to cycle and is now off looks better than their pre AAS physique I do not trust the "no gains can be kept" theory. Sure it's a small sample group but at least one of them should look the same as they did before AAS shouldn't they?

Here is my theory on the zero gains kept theory. As you use AAS your perception of your own body gets warped. You look at yourself and think I look like shit, even though you may be leaner and bigger than ever. This just keeps getting worse and worse as you get further from the norm. So when you finally stop, and have a successful recovery you will shrink of course. But there is a good chance you will look a bit better than before you started. However you have spent years looking at a beast mode version of yourself in the mirror that gets insane pumps. No matter how much gains you kept you will be disappointed because you won't even come in the same ballpark as your using body.

Let's face it... 5 lbs and a 1% bf difference from before you began AAS is not going to even seem like anything when you got used to 25-50 lbs of extra muscle and maybe half the bodyfat you had before or even lower.

 

[fitguy22]

Just remember because it is on the internet doesn't make it knowledge.

Point in fact what I just said. If every person that I know who used to cycle and is now off looks better than their pre AAS physique I do not trust the "no gains can be kept" theory. Sure it's a small sample group but at least one of them should look the same as they did before AAS shouldn't they?

Here is my theory on the zero gains kept theory. As you use AAS your perception of your own body gets warped. You look at yourself and think I look like shit, even though you may be leaner and bigger than ever. This just keeps getting worse and worse as you get further from the norm. So when you finally stop, and have a successful recovery you will shrink of course. But there is a good chance you will look a bit better than before you started. However you have spent years looking at a beast mode version of yourself in the mirror that gets insane pumps. No matter how much gains you kept you will be disappointed because you won't even come in the same ballpark as your using body.

Let's face it... 5 lbs and a 1% bf difference from before you began AAS is not going to even seem like anything when you got used to 25-50 lbs of extra muscle and maybe half the bodyfat you had before or even lower.

yeah that does make sense. 25-30 pounds is what most guys put on a average cycle and then they forget WHERE they started from.i guess the best way is to experiment on yourself and take pics.

im gonna try that on my next cycle,just for the heck of it. run a 14-15 week cycle, have HCG, AI, PCT and diet in check. ill try to eat same amount even after I'm done with pct and see where it leads, this has me intrigued lol

 

[Manski]

Really none. Roids swell your muscle fibers, they don't create new ones. Hgh is the only thing that makes new muscle fibers.

 

[China_Wall]

Really none. Roids swell your muscle fibers, they don't create new ones. Hgh is the only thing that makes new muscle fibers.

HGH can only create "minimal" new muscle fibers, if any... and that is running high dosages (10+, and probably closer to 20iu per day) for long periods, years, not months... so just stating something like that is not great advice...

sorry...

 

[FlyMolo]

yeah that does make sense. 25-30 pounds is what most guys put on a average cycle and then they forget WHERE they started from.i guess the best way is to experiment on yourself and take pics.

im gonna try that on my next cycle,just for the heck of it. run a 14-15 week cycle, have HCG, AI, PCT and diet in check. ill try to eat same amount even after I'm done with pct and see where it leads, this has me intrigued lol

Remember though your gains loss will not be immediate. Since you are probably not way outside your natural potential like pros are it could take a couple years to shrink to your now natty size. I doubt you would like to take that much time off. Its not like you drop aas and snap back instantly, though it is a faster process than packing it on! Lol.

 

[fitguy22]

Remember though your gains loss will not be immediate. Since you are probably not way outside your natural potential like pros are it could take a couple years to shrink to your now natty size. I doubt you would like to take that much time off. Its not like you drop aas and snap back instantly, though it is a faster process than packing it on! Lol.

yeah i know what you mean but i still wanna give it a go, I'm a very hard gainer so if gain 25 pounds and KEEP 10 even by the end of that year; ill be happy lol. i just wanna try and see how it works out for me. thanks for the info bro, everyone thanks

 

[Manski]

HGH can only create "minimal" new muscle fibers, if any... and that is running high dosages (10+, and probably closer to 20iu per day) for long periods, years, not months... so just stating something like that is not great advice...

sorry...

I don't know how to upload pics on here damn it lol but if you google it there are threads that support my commit. Don't be sorry China, we're al human and I'm here to learn but in a nutt shell hgh can and does create new muscle fibers and at not huge dosages as you are saying my friend.

 

[Acemace]

So even if you have everything needed, hcg, ai and a pct that's golden. I would have thought 30 percent would be a minimum as a pose to a maximum.

 

[Black Beard]

A lot of non-scientific conversation going on here

Brief exposure to performance-enhancing drugs may be permanently 'remembered' by muscles -- ScienceDaily

There is more research out there about this, so don't bitch to me about it being a rat study. Just giving you an example.

Androgenic anabolic steroids CAN increase myonuclei(muscle cells) This is effect is basically permanent. Think of it as giving you a kind of "muscle memory". The thing is, you won't be able to maintain that size(in the cells) because you won't have the same level of androgens coursing through your veins to sustain that same level of muscle mass. You would need to take the hormones again to "awaken" the cells. You shrink but the number of cells remain the same. You basically get "steroid muscle memory". So yeah, in a way you ARE better off than pre-cycle, if your HPTA isn't wrecked in the process. Your HPTA being permanently disable or impaired offsets most of the benefit of this effect though.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Here's a pair of human studies to support Blackbeard's point:

Effects of anabolic steroids on the mus... [Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1999] - PubMed - NCBI

Cellular and molecular mechanisms responsible... [Br J Pharmacol. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI

Basically, AAS use leads to satellite cell proliferation that can turn into the growth of new muscle fibers.

 

[Black Beard]

Thanks Rippedzilla, i was lazy and grabbed the first link i found.

 

[hölderlin]

Just remember because it is on the internet doesn't make it knowledge.

Point in fact what I just said. If every person that I know who used to cycle and is now off looks better than their pre AAS physique I do not trust the "no gains can be kept" theory. Sure it's a small sample group but at least one of them should look the same as they did before AAS shouldn't they?

Here is my theory on the zero gains kept theory. As you use AAS your perception of your own body gets warped. You look at yourself and think I look like shit, even though you may be leaner and bigger than ever. This just keeps getting worse and worse as you get further from the norm. So when you finally stop, and have a successful recovery you will shrink of course. But there is a good chance you will look a bit better than before you started. However you have spent years looking at a beast mode version of yourself in the mirror that gets insane pumps. No matter how much gains you kept you will be disappointed because you won't even come in the same ballpark as your using body.

Let's face it... 5 lbs and a 1% bf difference from before you began AAS is not going to even seem like anything when you got used to 25-50 lbs of extra muscle and maybe half the bodyfat you had before or even lower.

This seems to be the case. You're never going to feel like you do while on cycle, and so you impose this on your body image.

 

[hölderlin]

A lot of non-scientific conversation going on here

Brief exposure to performance-enhancing drugs may be permanently 'remembered' by muscles -- ScienceDaily

There is more research out there about this, so don't bitch to me about it being a rat study. Just giving you an example.

Androgenic anabolic steroids CAN increase myonuclei(muscle cells) This is effect is basically permanent. Think of it as giving you a kind of "muscle memory". The thing is, you won't be able to maintain that size(in the cells) because you won't have the same level of androgens coursing through your veins to sustain that same level of muscle mass. You would need to take the hormones again to "awaken" the cells. You shrink but the number of cells remain the same. You basically get "steroid muscle memory". So yeah, in a way you ARE better off than pre-cycle, if your HPTA isn't wrecked in the process. Your HPTA being permanently disable or impaired offsets most of the benefit of this effect though.

This is exactly how it was explained to me by roiders when I was younger.

 

[Black Beard]

That's the bottom line. Do with it what you will.

 

[fitguy22]

thanks a lot guys, got a lot of useful info here