which of these rep ranges stimulates the most growth?

[tyhigs]

high reps? I mean enough to actually feel an intense burn in your muscles (lactic acid?).

-or-

Low reps? To complete failure.

Or is this a question of which type of routine is best for the muscle fiber type (fast twitch vs slow twitch)?


BTW, I have tried thata 5x5 routine with great results in terms of strength. It didnt add much size though.

When I first started lifting, I added alot of mass by doing high reps. I was also a runner in high school (long distance). would these affect my muscle fiber type?

 

[Injectyourspinach]

Fiber type probably plays a role, but fiber type can be changed, to a degree. The main issue with hypertrophy is time under tension. Heavy, low-rep training with long rests is great for stimulating neural aspects of strength, but with some exceptions, it just isn't enough time under load of the individual muscles to promote maximum hypertrophy. The benefit of low-rep training in regards to hypertrophy is it conditions the neuromuscular system to recruit more total fibers within a muscle and groups of muscles. This means more total fibers with the potential for hypertrophy than would otherwise be. A mixture of low-rep training for the total fiber recruitment followed by the high-reps to ensure adequate time under tension seems to be the best general approach for growth. Incidentally, along with a lot of other good programs, both Westside's and Needsize's modified 5x5 programs follow this formula. Tweak what qualifies as low-rep and high-rep for yourself based on what you think your fiber-type dispersement may be.

 

[bleachcola]

Medical studies show that 6-12 reps cause the most hypertrophy in the majority of people.

 

[slobberknocker]

Fiber type probably plays a role, but fiber type can be changed, to a degree. The main issue with hypertrophy is time under tension. Heavy, low-rep training with long rests is great for stimulating neural aspects of strength, but with some exceptions, it just isn't enough time under load of the individual muscles to promote maximum hypertrophy. The benefit of low-rep training in regards to hypertrophy is it conditions the neuromuscular system to recruit more total fibers within a muscle and groups of muscles. This means more total fibers with the potential for hypertrophy than would otherwise be. A mixture of low-rep training for the total fiber recruitment followed by the high-reps to ensure adequate time under tension seems to be the best general approach for growth. Incidentally, along with a lot of other good programs, both Westside's and Needsize's modified 5x5 programs follow this formula. Tweak what qualifies as low-rep and high-rep for yourself based on what you think your fiber-type dispersement may be.

yes. high and low reps.

 

[Ducati32]

I train in the 6-10 rep range
12-20 for calves


train in low and high rep ranges

leave no muscle left unturned.

 

[Prana]

PROS AND BABY WEIGHTS??

I was talking with this guy at my gym who lived in Las Vegas for a few months and worked out at golds gym where coleman, culter, ect. worked out as well. He said they dont work out the way you think .. they do all high rep - with lil weight. Said the most he saw any of them lift was cutler, doing military press with 2plates a side!

Said he didn't see any of them doing deads ever......... and squats with low weight!

Maybe only to prevent injury and therefore not be able to compete? that's the only thing I can come up with that would justify this to me

what do you guys think?

 

[bleachcola]

Coleman claims to use 12 reps per set for just about every exercise.

 

[wildman536]

Coleman claims to use 12 reps per set for just about every exercise.

12 Reps for a Warm-Up maybe??

 

[Prana]

ok high rep but with baby weights!! that is what is shocking!!

 

[Toranaga]

ok high rep but with baby weights!! that is what is shocking!!

Its shocking 'cause its BS.

Have a look at Coleman's video ......"The Unbelievable".

This MOFO does 5 plates a side FRONT squats for 10 reps. 200lb DBs for 12 reps.
5plates a side for BB rows - 10 reps.

Its heavy ass weight AND reps. And thats why the video is aptly called "Ronnie Coleman.....The Unbelievable".


And yeah, after his workouts, he used to put 8 hrs as a cop

 

[Prana]

Its shocking 'cause its BS.

Have a look at Coleman's video ......"The Unbelievable".

This MOFO does 5 plates a side FRONT squats for 10 reps. 200lb DBs for 12 reps.
5plates a side for BB rows - 10 reps.

Its heavy ass weight AND reps. And thats why the video is aptly called "Ronnie Coleman.....The Unbelievable".


And yeah, after his workouts, he used to put 8 hrs as a cop

yA no doubt he CAN train hard and obviously would for the video, but the question is, do the pros train heavy at low rep or lighter at high rep day in and out, not just for a video

 

[pullinbig]

i can assure you they didnt get big doing light weights. coleman started off as a powerlifter years ago. he knows how to train for mass. the clips i saw he pulled 7+ for 4 reps then 8 for a dbl. squatted 855 for 5. far cry from 12 reps. i think the reason he hit the 200lb dbs for 12 is because they are the biggest ones in there. if he does a set of 10 or 12 it is prolly the only work set he does for that movement too.

 

[syko]

how is it that powerlifters are massive...i mean...look at the guys on the worlds strongest men..and some of them are actually somewhat ripped, well not ripped, but you can definitely see that theres muscle not just fat....

my question is this....why do people believe that 6-12 reps produce the most mass, if powerlifters train with heavy ass weights with the rep range of 1-5 per work set....and be massive... Ronnie coleman is one prime example...

 

[Insane_Man]

Growth as in size is directly related to the amount of microtrauma one can cause to the muscle cells.


This is related to conditioning. When you are deconditioned, any weight will stimulate growth, eventually you will grow accustomed to this weight, to the point where it will no longer cause microtrauma to your cells. This doesn't necessariliy mean a strength increase BTW, just that the cell walls have toughened up.

Upping the weights over a period of time will therefore require a drop in the number of reps eventually. Obviously you will at one point hit a wall and no longer be able to increase the load. This is where breaks come in handy. A week or so off will resensitize you to lighter weights, enabling your cells to once again be damaged by them.

 

[pullinbig]

heavy is a relative term though... I mean if you're curling 100lbs. swinging your back and not using good form then do you really think that'll add mass to your bi's? if you could curl 65 pounds with perfect form for 15 reps. it would be better than 6 crappy reps with the 100lbs. I know guys who compete, they're not pro, but, they've been lifting for years. NONE of them use anything less than 8 reps.

they do this:
Barbell curls 25 reps, 20, 15, 12, 10, 25
Preacher 20,15,12,10,8
hammer curls 20,15,12,10

and so on......they don't squat their max. I see most using excellent form with maybe 2-3 plates/side. Coleman just shows off for his videos, that's not HIS routine. I am certain he uses a mix of high rep/moderate rep and occasionally heavy. they would suffer way too much injury lifting what's heavy for them. power lifters may be huge, but, most of they're muscles are underdeveloped, they have huge tri's and chests from pressing, but, often no rear delts...and, to be honest, guys who powerlift shoot WAY more juice, or more precisely use more heavy androgens than just bodybuilders. They suffer more injuries and I read somewhere that along with wrestlers have the highest mortality rate of those that use AAS.

congratulations Gimp on the most lame post i have ever read on any board anywhere in the last 4 years. were talking about putting on mass and you bring up curls? duhhh!!!! no rear delt development? try pulling heavy deads and doin heavy back work for years and then tell me you got small posterior deltoids.

you tellin me that plers do more juice than ronnie and Jay? you think ronnie and jay pay for thier juice? hell no!! do powerlifters have to buy thier own juuice? hell yes!! get a grip son. why would plers trying to make weight do heavey andros? it dont add up.

you stated "they suffer more injuries and have a high mortality rate" where ITF did you read that? Please post your source if you gonna base an argument on it.

do some research before spoutting off again please, you are making a fool out of yourself.

unbelievable. how was that dawg for sensitivity? i watched golden pond twice and lassie.

 

[slobberknocker]

power lifters may be huge, but, most of they're muscles are underdeveloped, they have huge tri's and chests from pressing, but, often no rear delts...and, to be honest, guys who powerlift shoot WAY more juice, or more precisely use more heavy androgens than just bodybuilders. They suffer more injuries and I read somewhere that along with wrestlers have the highest mortality rate of those that use AAS.

1. Rear delts are very important in bench press.

2. I know several world class professional powerlifters, and most of them take less gear than many of the members of this board.

3. Injuries are a part of any sport, and any serious athlete is going to get hurt every now and then.

4. Whatever. Good luck in your training.

 

[Toranaga]

There is no "day in and out". As someone alluded to earlier, any athlete's training regiment is a mixture of different workouts.
When you body acclimatises itself to a certain workout, you change it. PL undoubtedly gives the best "base" for BB.

The only constant is change. Even for training.

yA no doubt he CAN train hard and obviously would for the video, but the question is, do the pros train heavy at low rep or lighter at high rep day in and out, not just for a video

 

[slobberknocker]

what kinda mass are we talking? Big, blocky, fat mass? Because that's what powerlifters look like to me. Rear delts involved in bench press? Really......how much do you think they're involved? I would say minimally. Oh...and why heavy androgens? Cause loser....they give you more strength than size. Powerlifters don't care about their size...their mass comes as a result of lifting heavy. Bodybuilders use tons of juice, but, their main anabolics in pro BB is insulin and GH, sure, those guys do tons of juice. Powerlifters use for strength, which drugs are used for strenghth? ANDROGENS. They are harder on the system. Halo, tren...etc are harsh

And yeah...I realize we are talking mass, but, I don't think deads are solely responsible for mass. I know guys who never do them and they are huge. I used curls as an example because I was discussing reps.

Insane_Man was correct...it's upping your weights over time and shocking the muscle that casues growth. so, if you can bench 200lbs. today and then 205lbs. next week that'll transfer to growth. I would put ANY IFBB pro up against any fat powerlifter (when he's leaned down of course) and as for symmetry and having every muscle developed, then, who do you think would win?

As far as rear delts being important in the bench press, this is what Shawna Mendelson posted on another board I visit:

"Work on your Reardelts!! Triceps, and do hammer curls!!!!! Very important!! Just by doing that your bench will increase!!"

She put "Reardelts" in bold when she posted. Shawna's a great female powerlifter, and a very nice person. Her brother is Scot Mendelson, who held the bench press world record at 876 until Gene Rychlak broke it I believe last summer.


I agree that in a bodybuilding contest, a top bodybuilder would beat a powerlifter. I'm not sure why that is even being debated.


As far as drugs, and this is a hard concept for people to grasp, believe me when I say that it is the training and not the drugs that is responsible for great strength. Drugs help in recovery but it's not everything. I take more gear than a lot of my friends who are powerlifters, and I still take less than many members of this board. A gram of test, 300 deca, and 400 eq. Does that seem like a lot for a 21 year old benching 600, squatting close to 900 and deadlifting close to 800? No. Trust me bro, it really is the training. Maximal work, speed work, and the repetition method. Check www.elitefts.com for more info.

I'm done with this thread.

 

[pullinbig]

what kinda mass are we talking? Big, blocky, fat mass? Because that's what powerlifters look like to me. Rear delts involved in bench press? Really......how much do you think they're involved? I would say minimally. Oh...and why heavy androgens? Cause loser....they give you more strength than size. Powerlifters don't care about their size...their mass comes as a result of lifting heavy. Bodybuilders use tons of juice, but, their main anabolics in pro BB is insulin and GH, sure, those guys do tons of juice. Powerlifters use for strength, which drugs are used for strenghth? ANDROGENS. They are harder on the system. Halo, tren...etc are harsh

And yeah...I realize we are talking mass, but, I don't think deads are solely responsible for mass. I know guys who never do them and they are huge. I used curls as an example because I was discussing reps.

Insane_Man was correct...it's upping your weights over time and shocking the muscle that casues growth. so, if you can bench 200lbs. today and then 205lbs. next week that'll transfer to growth. I would put ANY IFBB pro up against any fat powerlifter (when he's leaned down of course) and as for symmetry and having every muscle developed, then, who do you think would win?

Lets see I am guessing that you are 20 years old and weigh 179. You don’t know squat about juice, as you have made clear in your posts. I know a lot of power lifters who are at less than 10% bf. Androgens are a roller coaster ride at best. That’s why more lifters are switching over to the anabolics because of strength gains without all that water weight plus more permanent gains. But you wouldn’t know about that. How much tren you done? If any did it lean you out or fatten you up? If it’s so harsh how were you affected? You ever been to a top level PLing meet? There are several PLers who could diet down and put on a great show in the panty-wearing world of BBing. You are right about one thing though. That getting stronger puts muscle on you. Congrats on getting one right. This post is even more ridiculous than your first. BBers only use gh and slin? Are you retarded? I met jay several months ago and he told me himself that he loved tren and test. What? That cant be, not my BBers doing andros. You have totally embarrassed your self. Please be quite. Hey I got an idea. Go stain your self brown and pose in front of the mirror and see how big you get. Oh I know you, you write for flex mag. you wrote the article on getting arms 1 inch bigger in 5 hours, great literary piece by the way. Personally I don’t give a hoot about BBing. Walking around in your underwear in front of mom and dad don’t do anything for me. Putting up a 600 bench does. Bring your BBers to a meet and see how they fair. Hell better than that you bring your self to a meet and see how you fair. BTW how many shows you won? I really try not to post negative stuff but when I see posts like these I just cant help myself. Next time you post please present some valid facts.

 

[Prana]

There is no "day in and out". As someone alluded to earlier, any athlete's training regiment is a mixture of different workouts.
When you body acclimatises itself to a certain workout, you change it. PL undoubtedly gives the best "base" for BB.

The only constant is change. Even for training.

Hey Buddy. Why don't you pick on someone your own size?...OH WAIT, I am your size