Xtremly low Testosterone after Steroid Cycle

[Niren]

Hi Guys,

I am 31yr, 6'1" & 200 lbs. I am having problem of severely low testosterone and almost no libido since gone under AAS Cycle.

I was on high dose of sustanon-250 and deca for the period of 6-7 Months on and off. Last Steroid taken around 2 months ago without PCT since then I have done many tests for total testosterone. But, level is hovering around 100 & 200 ng/dl which are quiet less to sustain erection. Other tests I have undergoes are Semen analysis (very low), TSH, LH, FSH, PROLECTIN, CORTISOL, FT4 (all normal)

I guess testicals are not able to produce sufficient hormone to work properly. Thus I have started HCG 1000IU twice weekly. But, no Improvement noticed in T level after 3 weeks.

Yet not started Nolva/Clomid, Please provide guidelines to re-start natural secretion of testosterone.

Seeking your advice, Guys please help Its become very difficult for me to copeup with situation, I am very depressed due to poor function with my Mrs.

 

[halfwit]

So you have low total testosterone, but a normal LH and FSH with prolactin being in range as well?

If so, have you experienced any trauma to your testicles or developed a varicocele? The reason I ask for clarification is that would make you PRIMARY hypogonadal, which AAS doesn't do, and SERMs cannot fix.

 

[Niren]

Thanks halfwit

Here are details of test reports:

CORTISOL : 8.53 ug/dl------Reference range 6.2 - 19.4
FSH : 2.71 mIU/ml---Reference range 1.4-18.1
LH : 3.4 mIU/ml----Reference range 1.5 - 9.3
PROLACTIN: 9.37 ng/ml----Reference range 2.1 - 17.7
TSH : 1.91 uIU/ml---Reference range 0.30 - 5.5
FT4 :1.46 ng/dl------Reference range 0.70 - 1.80

I was able to perform with blue pills some time ago bur when T level falls very low ~ 100 since then tadalafil stopped working. I didn't experienced any trauma or varicocele in my testicles not even any kind of pain.

 

[Megatron28]

Looks like Secondary Hypogonadism to me due to the previous AAS use.

I would continue the hCG at 500iu twice a week until TT levels return to normal (do you know you pre-cycle baseline?). After that, run clomid for several months.

I would also recommend working with a doctor that has experience doing HPTA restarts. IMT would be a good option. They have done a lot of these.

 

[halfwit]

Looks like Secondary Hypogonadism to me due to the previous AAS use.

I would continue the hCG at 500iu twice a week until TT levels return to normal (do you know you pre-cycle baseline?). After that, run clomid for several months.

I would also recommend working with a doctor that has experience doing HPTA restarts. IMT would be a good option. They have done a lot of these.

I don't normally disagree with you Tron, but if he's on 2000iu of HCG already, and still sitting at sub-200's, I don't think SERMs will do much. That LH is already at almost the 50% mark, which makes me wonder how long the OP has been hypogonadal.

OP: Did you get pre-cycle blood work done to compare to? I'm definitely all for trying a restart with aggressive use of clomid/nolva, but I suspect that they won't do anything if HCG isn't already stimulating testosterone production.

 

[Megatron28]

I don't normally disagree with you Tron, but if he's on 2000iu of HCG already, and still sitting at sub-200's, I don't think SERMs will do much. That LH is already at almost the 50% mark, which makes me wonder how long the OP has been hypogonadal.

OP: Did you get pre-cycle blood work done to compare to? I'm definitely all for trying a restart with aggressive use of clomid/nolva, but I suspect that they won't do anything if HCG isn't already stimulating testosterone production.

It has only been three weeks of hCG. We don't know how much testicular atrophy he sustained. It may take a while to get the testicles working again. And the Pituitary isn't "yelling" for more Test, so it isn't working great either. Like I said, I wouldn't introduce the SERMs until hCG is shown to be working.

 

[halfwit]

It has only been three weeks of hCG. We don't know how much testicular atrophy he sustained. It may take a while to get the testicles working again. And the Pituitary isn't "yelling" for more Test, so it isn't working great either. Like I said, I wouldn't introduce the SERMs until hCG is shown to be working.

Fair enough, although I'm curious how much his LH is being suppressed by the HCG. I've read over and over how it's suppressive, but seldom see any actual comparisons versus baseline production.

I think my curiosity is piqued as his numbers look a lot like mine baselined, and I'm certainly primary. Either way, I'm curious what another couple weeks on HCG will do.

 

[Niren]

Looks like Secondary Hypogonadism to me due to the previous AAS use.

I would continue the hCG at 500iu twice a week until TT levels return to normal (do you know you pre-cycle baseline?). After that, run clomid for several months.

I would also recommend working with a doctor that has experience doing HPTA restarts. IMT would be a good option. They have done a lot of these.

Yes, it seems like Secondary Hypogonadism to me due to AAS usage. I didn't opt PCT in previous 12 Week cycle and again started new one when T level was around 295 (Pre cycle baseline).

I have started HCG after consultation with urologist who asked me for 1000 IU twice weekly till T level will not return to normal

 

[Niren]

Fair enough, although I'm curious how much his LH is being suppressed by the HCG. I've read over and over how it's suppressive, but seldom see any actual comparisons versus baseline production.

I think my curiosity is piqued as his numbers look a lot like mine baselined, and I'm certainly primary. Either way, I'm curious what another couple weeks on HCG will do.

Hi Halfwit, Thanks for your Input!
Above posted Test Results are 48 days older, I will come up with new test results in a day or two. Then, we will know how much LH is being suppressed by the HCG.

Till date I took 7 shots of HCG = 7000IU and I will continue with HCG for 2 more weeks then I will plan to start Clomid/Nolva for another 4 weeks. I have read on various forums that HCG will maintain testicular size by mimic Lyding cells and it***8217;s not a guaranty of Increasing T level. Please correct?

Some time ago, I have gone under MRI which is not suggesting Pitutary Microadenoma. Only, thing which I have observed is sustanon injection suppressed testosterone production which need to re-start.

 

[Megatron28]

Hi Halfwit, Thanks for your Input!
Above posted Test Results are 48 days older, I will come up with new test results in a day or two. Then, we will know how much LH is being suppressed by the HCG.

Till date I took 7 shots of HCG = 7000IU and I will continue with HCG for 2 more weeks then I will plan to start Clomid/Nolva for another 4 weeks. I have read on various forums that HCG will maintain testicular size by mimic Lyding cells and it***8217;s not a guaranty of Increasing T level. Please correct?

Some time ago, I have gone under MRI which is not suggesting Pitutary Microadenoma. Only, thing which I have observed is sustanon injection suppressed testosterone production which need to re-start.

Problem is we don't know what your Natty baseline LH is to compare to.

hCG mimics LH, not Leydig Cells.

There is no guarantee that LH will increase testosterone levels. If there is damage to your testicles it will not work (Primary Hypogonadism). If your testicles are healthy it should increase testosterone.

Two more weeks of hCG may not be enough time. You may need to run it longer. Similarly, only 4 weeks of clomid/nolva may not be long enough given the trauma you have inflicted on your HPTA.

 

[Niren]

Problem is we don't know what your Natty baseline LH is to compare to.

hCG mimics LH, not Leydig Cells.

There is no guarantee that LH will increase testosterone levels. If there is damage to your testicles it will not work (Primary Hypogonadism). If your testicles are healthy it should increase testosterone.

Two more weeks of hCG may not be enough time. You may need to run it longer. Similarly, only 4 weeks of clomid/nolva may not be long enough given the trauma you have inflicted on your HPTA.

Thank Megatron for your Input!

Today, I have got results of new blood test after taking 8000IU of HCG (only) in 24 days

1. (CORTISOL) = 13.9 ug/dl --------Ref Range 6.2 - 19.4 ug/dl
2. (OESTROGEN (E2) = 46.2 pg/ml --------Ref Range 0 - 39.8 pg/ml
3. (FSH) = 0.89mIU/ml -----------Ref Range 1.4-18.1
4. (LH) = 1.75 mIU/ml -----------Ref Range 1.5 - 9.3
5. (PROLACTIN) = 5.83ng/ml -----Ref Range 2.1 - 17.7
6. (SHBG) = 20.54nmol/L -------Ref Range 14.5 - 48.4 nmol/L
7. (TESTOSTERONE) = 226ng/dl

Please suggest should I continue with same dose of HCG (i.e.) 1000 IU every 3 days for few more weeks. Does usage of HCG for prolonged period should not shut down natural LH secretion? Also, please suggest when to start Clomid/Nolva

A month ago T level was almost same but I gone under dental surgery and I was on high dose of Pain killer & anti-biotic that might be the reason of similar T level even after continues use of HCG.

I want to remain fertile and dont want to use TRT, Please help what should I do from here.

 

[Megatron28]

Thank Megatron for your Input!

Today, I have got results of new blood test after taking 8000IU of HCG (only) in 24 days

1. (CORTISOL) = 13.9 ug/dl --------Ref Range 6.2 - 19.4 ug/dl
2. (OESTROGEN (E2) = 46.2 pg/ml --------Ref Range 0 - 39.8 pg/ml
3. (FSH) = 0.89mIU/ml -----------Ref Range 1.4-18.1
4. (LH) = 1.75 mIU/ml -----------Ref Range 1.5 - 9.3
5. (PROLACTIN) = 5.83ng/ml -----Ref Range 2.1 - 17.7
6. (SHBG) = 20.54nmol/L -------Ref Range 14.5 - 48.4 nmol/L
7. (TESTOSTERONE) = 226ng/dl

Please suggest should I continue with same dose of HCG (i.e.) 1000 IU every 3 days for few more weeks. Does usage of HCG for prolonged period should not shut down natural LH secretion? Also, please suggest when to start Clomid/Nolva

A month ago T level was almost same but I gone under dental surgery and I was on high dose of Pain killer & anti-biotic that might be the reason of similar T level even after continues use of HCG.

I want to remain fertile and dont want to use TRT, Please help what should I do from here.

I don't want to sugar coat it. It isn't looking promising. I would have hoped to see more improvement in your TT by now. You can give the hCG more time though to see if it helps. How much testicular atrophy did you experience while blasting and cruiaing?

I would talk to your doctor about adding Arimidex to your protocol. Not because your E2 is highish, but to try incorporating Arimidex Monotherapy

Effects of aromatase inhibition in elderly men with low or borderline-low serum testosterone levels. - PubMed - NCBI

Does longterm hCG usage shut down LH? Not that I am aware of. It would suppress it however.

When to start clomid/nolva? I wouldn't start it until you see some improvement in your TT through your current treatment. If you don't see increased TT levels, it would indicate that your testicles are not working properly. You pituitary could pump out as much LH as it wanted and it would be all for not if your testicles don't work. You are blasting them with hCG (which mimics LH) and they are not responding well. Hopefully more time will change that.

Have you seen a Urologist to have your testicles examined?

To remain fertile, you may require hMG. But let's cross that bridge when we get to it.

Have you read the Basic TRT Overview Sticky. I think that would help you understand the HPTA better.

 

[Niren]

I would like to comment about HCG, 4 Week ago I purchased premixed hcg manufactured by Bharat Serum; with the name HUCOG. I had the choice to purchase it as a powder, but elected the premix because I did not quite understand how to mix the powder. When I received it, I diluted it properly. Then, I injected 1000IU once every 3 days. But, results were not pleasing.

Now, I bought more Hcg. This time, I purchased the powered vial. I mixed it with my own bacteriostatic water to the same dilution as the first batch. Also, I thought to increase dose from 1000IU to 2500IU twice weekly (plz suggest). I will keep updated my progress on this...

I am getting treatment from Urologist, but didnt examine my balls yet. Possibly, I will go for it in coming weeks. As ssuggested, I read Basic TRT Overview Sticky to understand HPTA better.
BigThanks for your support.

 

[halfwit]

You can perform a self examination regarding your testes; it will be fairly obvious if they're atrophied as they will look smaller, and cling to your body more, as if they're cold.

You can keep going with the HCG, but if you're not seeing any improvement at these doses, I really don't think you're going to get much further. It might be time to get a sperm count and put some away in a bank if they're good, as you may want children in the future.

I'm sorry, but your numbers just scream TRT to me. It's just a matter of how much you're willing to throw at it before you may come to the same conclusion. My heart does go out to you, life at those levels is just a black and white version of what's normally a colorful world.

Please keep us posted on how things go.

 

[3J]

did i read right.. he took 8000iu hcg 24 hours before???

what kind of protocol is that??

and with that much hcg he is still that low???

doesn't look promising at all

OP, did you do a baseline testosterone lab at any given time before you cycled??

people dont understand the importance of doing cycles correctly..

running a very long cycle, esp witha 19-nor like deca, is going to shut you down hard


now without pre cycle bloods we are clueless as to whether or not this was caused by the cycle itself or you were naturally low test....

 

[Niren]

You can perform a self examination regarding your testes; it will be fairly obvious if they're atrophied as they will look smaller, and cling to your body more, as if they're cold.

You can keep going with the HCG, but if you're not seeing any improvement at these doses, I really don't think you're going to get much further. It might be time to get a sperm count and put some away in a bank if they're good, as you may want children in the future.

I'm sorry, but your numbers just scream TRT to me. It's just a matter of how much you're willing to throw at it before you may come to the same conclusion. My heart does go out to you, life at those levels is just a black and white version of what's normally a colorful world.

Please keep us posted on how things go.

I have performed self-examination but, not able to make difference if they are smaller than before. Testes look fine to me. (Maybe I am not able to judge them well)

I took a total of 10000IU pre-mixed HCG in little over 30 days, I guess dose is less restart things again. From tomorrow I will start with new HCG with powder vial and bacteriostatic water with comparative higher dose. I gone under semen analysis around a month ago then it was 18 million with fairly good volume, again I will go for Sperm count after 2 weeks.

Going again on TRT & opt for semen bank is very scary
Many thanks to you!

 

[Niren]

did i read right.. he took 8000iu hcg 24 hours before???

what kind of protocol is that??

and with that much hcg he is still that low???

doesn't look promising at all

OP, did you do a baseline testosterone lab at any given time before you cycled??

people dont understand the importance of doing cycles correctly..

running a very long cycle, esp witha 19-nor like deca, is going to shut you down hard


now without pre cycle bloods we are clueless as to whether or not this was caused by the cycle itself or you were naturally low test....

Nope its not 8000iu in 24 hrs, Its 24 days and they were 8 shots of 1000iu. I am on only HCG for that period. But, didnt get much improvement in T level

I have cycled 3-4 times in two years without PCT (I know thats very ridiculous). I didnt have baseline T level before cycle but, I used to have get sex drive and Erection which I dont have now. Can you suggest something plz