MyFirstCycle:)
New member
an undecanoate ester would have my blood levels right because of the 16day half life?
250mg Test C, 600mg Deca
- Thread starter animal00043
- Start date
an undecanoate ester would have my blood levels right because of the 16day half life?
DADAWG
Community Veteran
i disagree . its one of those theories that doesnt work as well as planned. IMO by the end of the month your levels are low
juced_porkchop
Moderator
I dont really agree with this.
I even ran deca alone for 11 weeks (from my doc after accident) and DID NOT have dick issues. Some may, some might not..
I DO NOT rec deca without test, my case was not the norm.
but i will say this:
nothing with deca higher then test but i myself would never use more then 400mg deca ew...
why not 400mg deca ew?
MyFirstCycle:)
New member
so what would be the best thing for me to do.. start my cycle at 400-600mg/wk but at the end have Aromatase inhibitor (AI) Arimidex and go straight back to my original testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose? im just trying to get as much advice and help as possible .. this is me doing research lol
juced_porkchop
Moderator
some people will get this so called deca dick ( i say so called becaus ei neve rhad this issue and used deca a bunch of times) even with test dose the same or higher then deca...not sure why myself but much me some peoples chemistry.
juced_porkchop
Moderator
I would do a run with 400-500mg ew and then just go back to Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), if you are upping test dose i rec using the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) from day one and stopping (or lowering) when you go back to Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) dose.
i have got nice gains with 300-400mg deca myself, but i was using more test.
juced_porkchop
Moderator
I agree, i rec atleast 2 weeks before starting post cycle therapy (pct) but really 3-4 weeks is better with deca and then you will still have it in you for weeks at minimal amounts. but you are on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) so run the test part 4 weeks longer, might as well anyway.
animal00043
New member
Well im actually thinking im going to let it sit at 400, I will attempt 600 and gauge the difference. I have read many old timers logs on these types of set ups and they all seem to think that deca really shines at 600-800mg/wk with low test dose. would love to get best gains from 400, but will be trying 600 once into cycle to see difference for 3-4 weeks.
zephyr_987
New member
well ya if u r on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), u are pretty much permanantly shut down, the issue would be more like if you dont have a problem with a limp noodle go for it. keep an eye on your prolactin levels... if u are going thru a dry spell in the bed room go for it.
animal00043
New member
You dont know what youre talking about. You are just regurgitating the same old jargon that you have read on the web throughout your "Research". Also i said im on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), my gonads do not work. So... I am also completely sterile and unable to procreate. I have test results to prove it and a semen analysis to be sure.
You say "do this and we will be hearing how you cant get it up", not true.-----> If e2 levels are kept in check, well able to with use of exemestane 12.5mg ED (legit because i get it from...walgreens).
Now lets break this idea down here. If prolactin issues arise from the use of progestins or 19nor compounds, then why is it that 19nor compounds are not converted directly to DHT and also only rises when there is enough estrogen to allow the rise in prolactin. Testosterone turns into dht, there are a lot of dht receptors in penis. Deca converts to DNH or something. It can bind to DHT receptors, rendering them almost numb, via the deca dick. BUT with enough testosterone to take up those DHT receptors, which has a higher affinity binding rate then DHN, then you can get it up just fine.
Thats one aspect of it
The other is this:
If you keep e2 in check, which is a whole lot easier to do at 200-250mg/wk, than 500-1000mg/wk. AI's are also a lot more unhealthy for you and are extremely dangerous. Dont use that as the rock to hide behind with high test cycles and say you just dont want to use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) because they are bad. You elevating your e2 to 200+ or something ridiculous causes not only estrogen problems, but oncomes the prolactin and progesterone problems. Most of the bloat and acne you get while on cycle is due to the test side effects. Its just too hard to control the e2 at such a high dose, at least keeping it nice and low for a long time, as it is much easier on 200-250mg.wk.
A classic example of this is the standard deca test split---> 400 deca 500 test. Well everything will be cool until the testosterone levels peak and stabilize at 500mg/wk of actual test, and then boom comes the climbing e2, at around week 5-6. Then boom, gyno. but its "Deca gyno!" and wont go away!! oh noo.. hah. If you just lowered the test, i bet you the gyno would never have come up, nor much of the bloat.
Well if you lowered your testosterone to a dose that would supply basic function to your testosterone needs within the body, you will be able to control the e2 from the start, and thus prevent prolactin issues by making sure the e2 is down and progesterone has no chance at rising without e2! ITS IN MEDICAL STUDIES FOR CHRIST SAKE. THERE IS NO BRO SCIENCE HERE.
Look, the worst combination is this: high e2, high prolactin----> this sucks, you get every bit of every side of every aas and feel terrible regardless of what you do.
Prolactin can only rise in the presence of e2.
So why is it that we see all these people start with 400-600mg deca and then say, omg i cant use my pecker, im upping my dose of test from 500-600 to a gram a week.. I dont always do it, but its deca man so i have to if i want my boys okay...
That is utter crap. You are throwing gas on a fire essentially.
animal00043
New member
Can you actually supply any evidence instead of bro science as to why deca would make me have a limp dick if test is lowered to 200-250mg/wk and e2 is constantly under control?
animal00043
New member
Look, testosterone is cool. It the grand dad to all aas. But i dont think its gains are clean at all. I eat Ketogenic and sometimes, but rarely CKD. I am gluten free, and know my body very well. I have full blood panels to prove im in the best shape of my life, cholesterol at 110 with chronic high cholesterol in family.
But, alot of the worst side effects ive ever had was on high doses of test. Test causes too much e2, at least in me! So i know there are ways, specifically of the golden era where they didnt rely on testosterone as their main agent of growth, they relied more heavily on deca, fina, and tren hex (Parabolan), as well as the breakfast of champions dianabol. But in all of these guys use of aas, they didnt use a ton of test, just enough to maintain function, and let the more powerful agents to the muscle building.
This is best utilized by men on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), like myself, because testosterone causes less of a HPTA shut down than 19 nor compounds, it is more widely used and is suggested as a first time cycle to almost everyone. You essentially are already shut down, but replacing the testosterone hormone, and letting the deca do the work as it is a better agent to build muscle on than testosterone. Deca does not cause the body to not be able to 'absorb' or use testosterone, just the ability to produce it. If on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), you cant make it already and thus are relying on exogenous testosterone to achieve the SAME hormone levels as a normal person would, perhaps a little higher.
I feel like im explaining myself to a child. eff
But, alot of the worst side effects ive ever had was on high doses of test. Test causes too much e2, at least in me! So i know there are ways, specifically of the golden era where they didnt rely on testosterone as their main agent of growth, they relied more heavily on deca, fina, and tren hex (Parabolan), as well as the breakfast of champions dianabol. But in all of these guys use of aas, they didnt use a ton of test, just enough to maintain function, and let the more powerful agents to the muscle building.
This is best utilized by men on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), like myself, because testosterone causes less of a HPTA shut down than 19 nor compounds, it is more widely used and is suggested as a first time cycle to almost everyone. You essentially are already shut down, but replacing the testosterone hormone, and letting the deca do the work as it is a better agent to build muscle on than testosterone. Deca does not cause the body to not be able to 'absorb' or use testosterone, just the ability to produce it. If on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), you cant make it already and thus are relying on exogenous testosterone to achieve the SAME hormone levels as a normal person would, perhaps a little higher.
I feel like im explaining myself to a child. eff
animal00043
New member
I am also doing this to start a log on this protocol. There are a few out there and i have talked to a lot of vets on some other pages, but i know there needs to be more knowledge on this type of cycle which was lost in time.
juced_porkchop
Moderator
I dont agree with 800mg deca and think 600 is already enough 400-500mg ew being optimal vs sides, but to each his own
the effects of deca may make you less interested in sex and cause limp noodle, regardless of test dose. but a higher test dose = more libido = better erection (for most) ALONG with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI)
I do feel a test base of 200-300mg ew is fine with deca but i still do agree higher test level would (for most) "feel" better.
no proof as there is no study on this combo of reasoning.
I look forward to it!
animal00043
New member
I dont agree with 800mg deca and think 600 is already enough 400-500mg ew being optimal vs sides, but to each his own
the effects of deca may make you less interested in sex and cause limp noodle, regardless of test dose. but a higher test dose = more libido = better erection (for most) ALONG with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI)
I do feel a test base of 200-300mg ew is fine with deca but i still do agree higher test level would (for most) "feel" better.
no proof as there is no study on this combo of reasoning.
I look forward to it!
Thanks for the insight man.
I look forward to having the log up here soon, im going to give it about 3 weeks before i start it, let some of the hormone levels come in.
I dont mind not being overly interested in sex, I work far too many hours and am rarely home as it is.
animal00043
New member
I also dont agree with 800mg deca, dont see a point in how much more gains that would give, an extra couple lbs isnt worth that much to me. I think 600 will be the maximum, 400 being lowest. I might settle on 500. Although im one of those guys that love tren ace at 700-800mg/wk with low dose test lol.
Destination230
Member
I'm printing this out to let my friends read - I've tried to say this to them before but am not very articulate.
animal00043
New member
^this guy.
Im on trt. if i need to explain, you truly are a novice.
I feel as if the term "trt" has been tossed around so much by people who should use the term blasting and cruising. Trt is not by choice, its to live, due to the HPTA already being fried beyond all chances of saving by pharmaceutical drug therapies. Blasting and cruising is allowing yourself a fast track to being on true trt.
get it?... im on trt. I cant be shut down, ever. because i already am.
Me.. I am prone to Deca Dick.. it is subject to the individual.. If your getting Deca dick.. Do EQ to get the anabolic/androgenic combination... But i have to agree with everyone here.. in all the years I have been in the Gym which is now 33 yrs, nobody has ever recomended once a month shots... Any doc who recs this is obviously not knowledgable of HRT.. As far as being fried.. ha we all get fried over time.. Just some faster than others.. Our body naturally produces less test as time goes one.. Hence why the chances of ED becomes more prevalent as men approach their fifties and sixties..
I also dont rec using more deca than test.. 2:1 ratio test to deca is the norm.. But in anycase be sure your taking some good anti estrogens... also be aware if your diet sucks so will your cycle.. Diet is 80% of your results.. diet is actually the hardest to manage.. esp if your working every day.. who has time time to cook and eat every 3 hours.. But you need to do it...
I suggest doing at least one shot a week.. but use enanthate instead of Cyp if your gonna do this.. Else do twice a week just half the dose... and honestly.. if your fried.. ur gonna need 150 to 200 mg of test to bring your levels to high normal.
I also dont rec using more deca than test.. 2:1 ratio test to deca is the norm.. But in anycase be sure your taking some good anti estrogens... also be aware if your diet sucks so will your cycle.. Diet is 80% of your results.. diet is actually the hardest to manage.. esp if your working every day.. who has time time to cook and eat every 3 hours.. But you need to do it...
I suggest doing at least one shot a week.. but use enanthate instead of Cyp if your gonna do this.. Else do twice a week just half the dose... and honestly.. if your fried.. ur gonna need 150 to 200 mg of test to bring your levels to high normal.
