2nd cycle advice needed

[catchweight]

Hi guys

I'm new to this site and really need some advice. I have just bought my gear which consists of:

Test 400 (2 10ml viles) isis lab
Deca 300 (1 10ml vile) isis lab
d/bol tabs
tamoxifen and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)

I'm looking at doin the following cycle:

week 1 & 2 - test 1/2ml x monday & Thurs + d/bol
week 3-10- test 1ml monday + 1/2ml thursday&1ml deca
weeks 10-12 - test 1ml + 1/2ml deca monday + 1ml test thursday + Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 500iu monday & Thursday

Then PCT to start 6 days after last shot:

40mg every day of tamoxifen for 2weeks

I'd really appreciate some constructive feedback please

 

[Fieldsy]

No. No No No.

Read the stickies.

Your post cycle therapy (pct) is wrong, youre at a low dose of test (IMO), and you dont have an AI.

No...

 

[catchweight]

No. No No No.

Read the stickies.

Your pct is wrong, youre at a low dose of test (IMO), and you dont have an AI.

No...

What are the stickies? Sorry like I said im new to the site

What exactly is wrong with PCT - that is the bit im moat concerned with. I used sus & deca 1st cycle (not advisable I know) and got good gains but then shut down badly for nearly a year after no pct so I want to get it right

I'll be averaging 600ml test to 300 deca - dyou really think thats not enough test?

 

[Docd187]

The stickies are at the top of the anabolic forum, the threads that have the word sticky next to them. Why would you take 1ml test on Mondays than 1/2ml in Thursdays? I'd suggest 400mg deca/wk and again why the final few wks you half the dose of deca? What's the point of running 2wks dbol? Your post cycle therapy (pct) should include clomid and should be longer than 2wks. Pct should start when the longest esters have cleared and since test 400 is mainly Cyp and enan, 6wks is too long to wait. You don't mention an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for on cycle nor do you mention caber/prami for deca sides. Like Fieldsy said, read the stickies and don't start this cycle as is, there's a lot more you need to learn before running it otherwise you're going to get some pretty bad sides and be shutdown for another year.

 

[Beck-Miester]

You need about 3 weeks after your last shot before you start PCT when you're taking a 19nor like Deca....it has a very long ester. Read the "standard PCT" stickies and then try again...

Make sure that you hav Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for the test, and Caber for the deca. If any of this sounds like Greek to you, you need to do a LOT more reading.....

 

[catchweight]

Thanks Guys

1ml Monday and 1/2ml Thursday simply to get the 600mg required of test and I would put the Deca in with the smaller dose of test
Easing off the deca with a few weeks to go just so I can start post cycle therapy (pct) earlier?
Looked at Aromatase inhibitor (AI) but the sides include dry joints which is one of the reasons I wanted to run the deca in the first place...I'm no spring chicken!
Really appreciate the advice though...I'll take some time and keep reading/seeking advice before starting
Any feedback on this reply?

 

[Beck-Miester]

------snip-------...I'm no spring chicken!
Really appreciate the advice though...I'll take some time and keep reading/seeking advice before starting
Any feedback on this reply?

I'm 45y/o, so I'm not exactly a spring chicken either....and I DO love Deca as well. Deca does a lot of good things for joints...only one of which is easing joint pain. Another important thing that it does (and a lot of people here seem to either ignore, or don't realize) is it helps in callogen production to help maintain tendons and ligaments. Test will inhibit callogen production, and CAN make them brittle (as if they weren't brittle enuf by the time I hit my 40's). Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will not affect the joint easing properties of Deca. Caber is always important for Prolactin when you are runing a 19nor.

Personally, I ALWAYS run my test at a 2:1 ratio or higher to any 19nor that I might run in conjunction with it. It helps keep me "up", as it were......Running Deca higher than Test will undoubtedly give you Deca Dick....which can be countered with Cialis...but if you can get away without having to use it, so much the better..

You didn't mention what ester you are using for Test tho..I am gonna assume Test E from your suggested doasages and schedule, in which case, I would maybe consider an even split. It's test 400, you say..so it will probably have a bit of pip (strong gear usually does....), .75cc mon & thurs would probably give you a pretty good, even test load throughout the week....OR..increase to 400mg 2x wk for 800mg/wk....and 300mg Deca ew, right between the test shots...stop deca 3 weeks before the last test pin, and you should be good to go with post cycle therapy (pct) 14 - 21 days after your last shot of Test E. (remember that Test E is a long ester as well....some people forget that when calculating their post cycle therapy (pct) start dates...)

If you are doing a 14 week cycle, then your last shot of Deca would be around day 78, and your last shot of test would be around day 97. Given the esters in both of those, You would start post cycle therapy (pct) around day 123...no way around it.....

my .02c

 

[catchweight]

I'm 45y/o, so I'm not exactly a spring chicken either....and I DO love Deca as well. Deca does a lo of good things for joints...only one of which is easing joint pain. Another important thing that it does (and a lot of people here seem to either ignore, odon't realize) is it helps in callogen production to help maintain tendons and ligaments. Test will inhibit callogen production, and CAN make them brittle (as if they weren't brittle enuf by the time I hit my 40's). Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will not affect the joint easing properties of Deca. Caber is always important for Prolactin when you are runing a 19nor.

Personally, I ALWAYS run my test at a 2:1 ratio or higher to any 19nor that I might run in conjunction with it. It helps keep me "up", as it were......Running Deca higher than Test will undoubtedly give you Deca Dick....which can be countered with Cialis...but if you can get away without having to use it, so much the better..

You didn't mention what ester you are using for Test tho..I am gonna assume Test E from your suggested doasages and schedule, in which case, I would maybe consider an even split. It's test 400, you say..so it will probably have a bit of pip (strong gear usually does....), .75cc mon & thurs would probably give you a pretty good, even test load throughout the week....OR..increase to 400mg 2x wk for 800mg/wk....and 300mg Deca ew, right between the test shots...stop deca 3 weeks before the last test pin, and you should be good to go with post cycle therapy (pct) 14 - 21 days after your last shot of Test E. (remember that Test E is a long ester as well....some people forget that when calculating their post cycle therapy (pct) start dates...)

If you are doing a 14 week cycle, then your last shot of Deca would be around day 78, and your last shot of test would be around day 97. Given the esters in both of those, You would start post cycle therapy (pct) around day 123...no way around it.....

my .02c

Ok so I maybe wasnt that far from a good cycle. Not sure I can get caber and my test is test E 400. Ive taken a look at the standard post cycle therapy (pct) sticky as well. How about this then:

2 x per week .75 test and x1 per week 1ml deca (gives the original 2:1 test:deca 600mg test E and 300mg tri deca)

Q? Would it make a diff if I loaded the syringe with .5ml deca and .75 test x 2 per week rather than shooting the test alone and deca seperate? Seem to remember that easing pain of injection although was using sus last time

I run that weeks 1-10 then drop the deca and carry on with 600mg test per week in weeks 10-13.

Week 13-15 I run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 500iu every other day I then wait 4 days and
Pct then starts from middle of week 15/beginning week 16 which is 40mg tamoxifen ED for 2 weeks then 20mg for 2 weeks

If this all good? Then i just need to sort my Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Is that about right?

 

[Beck-Miester]

Rui (the big red banner at the top of this forum) has Caber...I use MP for my Caber, and it's GTG.

As far as your proposed cycle goes though: That sounds "not too bad", and should work for you. I would do a few things differently perhaps, but you need to find your body's "happy spot". I have pre-loaded syringes in the past, and it works. The only place that I can see problems arising, is perhaps with the .75cc measurements. 0.5cc and 1cc are not too hard to measure out....and they DO have lines for the 0.75.....just make sure you take precautions when drawing that you don't "mix in the bottle" by accident. I always try to keep my injections to a MAX of 2cc (and usually no more than 1cc per injection), because pumping that much oil into a muscle is gonne (eventually) hurt like hell until its absorbed. I did a 3cc injection once, a few cycles back....it was just the way that the injection schedule worked out...and never again. I'll use 3 pins in different muscles before I'll inject 3cc into any muscle ever again.

Again though: make sure you have your Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and Caber sorted out BEFORE you start.....I'm a BIG believer in having everything you need (excel is an awesome tool for doing the calulations...) for the entire cycle. Remember to ROUND UP to the next full bottle, to allow for fudge factor, and the fact you will lose about .01ml on every injection because of the design of the syringes and pins.

 

[catchweight]

Rui (the big red banner at the top of this forum) has Caber...I use MP for my Caber, and it's GTG.

As far as your proposed cycle goes though: That sounds "not too bad", and should work for you. I would do a few things differently perhaps, but you need to find your body's "happy spot". I have pre-loaded syringes in the past, and it works. The only place that I can see problems arising, is perhaps with the .75cc measurements. 0.5cc and 1cc are not too hard to measure out....and they DO have lines for the 0.75.....just make sure you take precautions when drawing that you don't "mix in the bottle" by accident. I always try to keep my injections to a MAX of 2cc (and usually no more than 1cc per injection), because pumping that much oil into a muscle is gonne (eventually) hurt like hell until its absorbed. I did a 3cc injection once, a few cycles back....it was just the way that the injection schedule worked out...and never again. I'll use 3 pins in different muscles before I'll inject 3cc into any muscle ever again.

Again though: make sure you have your Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and Caber sorted out BEFORE you start.....I'm a BIG believer in having everything you need (excel is an awesome tool for doing the calulations...) for the entire cycle. Remember to ROUND UP to the next full bottle, to allow for fudge factor, and the fact you will lose about .01ml on every injection because of the design of the syringes and pins.

Ok after taking on board your advice and reading every sticky and bit of reading I can. I'm starting with the following today:

Wk1-13 testE400 x2 x0.75ml (600mg/week)
Wk1-10deca300 x1 x1ml (300mg/week)
Wk 5-15 x2 x250iu Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) +0.5 of 25mg/ml exemestane (liquid)
Wk16-18 40mg every day tamoxifen
Wk18-20 20mg ed tamoxifen

What d'you think?

 

[Beck-Miester]

That actually doesn't look too bad for a first cycle to me...but like I mentioned before: T400 is probably gonna hurt like a biatch....strong gear usually does...and make sure you have Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (arimidex, or Aromasin) handy for Estrogen sides...

On another note: you may have some testicular discomfort....that is normal....IF the gear is legit. You WILL be shut down from this, which is why PCT will be always be important.

Anyone else here wanna chime in? I think that this looks pretty good, and it's conservative and he has his safeguards in place.....

 

[Docd187]

I would start the exemstane from the first day and begin with a 12.5mg dosage not 25mg. If you need more you can always adjust but crashing your estrogen levels (potentially) is not a good thing. I also would pick up a second SERM like clomid or torem as everything I've read suggests quicker recoveries with 2 SERMs (1 could and may work but its not a risk I would be willing to take).

 

[catchweight]

ld start the exemstane from the first day and begin with a 12.5mg dosage not 25mg. If you need more you can always adjust but crashing your estrogen lotentially) is not a good thing. I also would pick up a second SERM like clomid or torem as everything I've read suggests quicker recoveries with 2 SERMs (1 could and may work but its not a risk I would be willing to take).

Yeah I am starting with 12.5 - 0.5ml of 25mg/ml. I thought about starting from day 1 with the stane but from other bits ive read you wanna take as little as everything as possible to get the desired result right? So i figured it takes a few weeks before i'll really need it. If i notice any sides ill get on it earlier.

Beckmeister - there was only a small amount of pain on first pin but then i only shot .75ml

Ill keep you guys updated and thanks again for all the advice

 

[Nightmare007]

Read the stickys buddy and you're gonna need more gear your cycle should be like
Test 500mg/week 12 weeks
Decca 600mg/week 10 weeks
Dbol 50mg/week 4 weeks
Exemestane 12.5mg eod 13 weeks
Hcg 500iu/week 13 weeks
Hcg 1000iu ed week 14
Pct

 

[Docd187]

Yeah I am starting with 12.5 - 0.5ml of 25mg/ml. I thought about starting from day 1 with the stane but from other bits ive read you wanna take as little as everything as possible to get the desired result right? So i figured it takes a few weeks before i'll really need it. If i notice any sides ill get on it earlier.

Beckmeister - there was only a small amount of pain on first pin but then i only shot .75ml

Ill keep you guys updated and thanks again for all the advice

That's one train of thought to take as little compounds as possible and I'm a believer in it myself but not towards AI's. exogenous test WILL start to aromatize from day 1, how much is up to your genetic predisposition. Other sides include oily skin, high BP, bloat, water weight, loss of libido, etc. some of the sides you won't notice till its too late and they've already hit you. My thoughts on this are to prevent the sides not treat them bc they will be there whether I notice or not, again to what degree is determined by genetics mainly. You can go either route but consider the pros and cons of each and decide for yourself. Getting bloodwork before after, and during the cycle will help assess any possible issues you may get.

 

[catchweight]

Rd the stickys buddy and you're gonna need more gear your cycle should be like
Test 500mg/week 12 weeks
Decca 600mg/week 10 weeks
Dbol 50mg/week 4 weeks
Exemestane 12.5mg eod 13 weeks
Hcg 500iu/week 13 weeks
Hcg 1000iu ed week 14
Pct

Almost everything ive read agreed that deca should be half the dose of test? Im fairly happy with that part to be honest but everyone has different views

 

[catchweight]

That's one train of thought to take as little compounds as possible and I'm a believer in it myself but not towards AI's. exogenous test WILL start to aromatize from day 1, how much is up to your genetic predisposition. Other sides include oily skin, high BP, bloat, water weight, loss of libido, etc. some of the sides you won't notice till its too late and they've already hit you. My thoughts on this are to prevent the sides not treat them bc they will be there whether I notice or not, again to what degree is determined by genetics mainly. You can go either route but consider the pros and cons of each and decide for yourself. Getting bloodwork before after, and during the cycle will help assess any possible issues you may get.

Yeah I can see your point. Bloods have been sent off so ill have a baseline to judge against at least. Ive committed the cardinal sin of starting cycle before Aromatase inhibitor (AI) had arrived to be honest so may have to wait until week 2 at least

 

[Beck-Miester]

They are correct that extra test will begin to aromatize soon after injection, BUT...you are taking Test E, which has a long ester and takes a little while to build up in your bloodstream. Sides, initially will be, or maybe I'll say "should" be almost non existent for the first couple if weeks. This will give you the opportunity to see how you body handles the extra test, and what your estrogen sensitivity is (if you don't know already).

I was a learning curve for me too, but I learned to identify the early symptoms, and that was when I began AI.....but a word of caution....once you start it ( because you needed to...) you'll need it until the end of your cycle. Keep in mind that Test E can stay in your blood for quite a while after your last pin....that's why you have to wait so long to start PCT (21-26 days), and you MIGHT, depending upon your estrogen sensitivity, need Aromatase inhibitor (AI) right up to the start of your PCT ( or nearly so...)

 

[catchweight]

Pin1 on monday - testE 400 x 0.5ml right delt - hardly any pain on injection but slight stiffness and a little sting next couple of days
Pyschological 'placebo' straight away thought I looked noticeably more muscular the next day & attacked the gym like an animal haha
Pin 2 just now tri-deca 300 x 1ml - hurt like a bitch! Random but I suppose the bigger load even though same strength of gear and fron memory deca hurt less?
See what im like in training tomorrow

 

[catchweight]

Still not sure if I should go with 2 pins per week and load .5 deca with each test shot