Am I the only one that...........

[BoxCut]

commits the "internet" cardinal rule of using orals like dbol and drol for longer then 5-6 weeks? It just seems that everyone jumps on the bandwagon of "5-6 weeks max because it cn damage your liver" but amongst the group of bbers that I am friends with, we all use dbol for at least 8 weeks, sometimes 12 and we all get our liver values looked at and at worst they are only slightly elavted. Its nothing that 12 weeks of being off of dbol wouldnt fix. I just find tht orals like dbol and drol are so important to the growth of new muscle through the crazy stregnth you get and cutting it short to 5 weeks just really seems to me like its too short considering I have seen the awesome benefits of using orals longer. As long as you get in your water intake and use some milk thistle 35-45 mg every day for 8-12 weeks is not going to do any long term damage to your liver.

Sorry, just a rant, feel free to disaggree I just wnted to point out something that has been on my mind.

 

[STANG 98]

This is the first i have EVER heard of anyone doing orals for longer than six weeks. Even if your values weren't to the point where you felt you needed to stop, I think you're playing Russian Roulette and you can only defy the law of averages for so long. Be careful!!

 

[hhajdo]

Dtsch Med Wochenschr 1999 Sep 10;124(36):1029-32 Related Articles, Links


[Severe cholestasis with kidney failure from anabolic steroids in a body builder]

[Article in German]

Habscheid W, Abele U, Dahm HH.

Medizinische Klinik, Paracelsus-Krankenhaus Ruit, Esslingen.

HISTORY AND ADMISSION FINDINGS: A 28-year-old body builder was admitted because of jaundice. For 80 days, until 3 weeks before hospitalization, he had been taking moderately high doses of anabolic steroids: metandienone (methandienone), 10-50 mg daily by mouth, and stanozolol, 50 mg intramuscularly every other day. Physical examination was unremarkable except for yellow discoloration of the skin and sclerae. INVESTIGATIONS: Bilirubin concentration was raised to 4.5 mg/dl, cholestasis enzymes were normal, while transaminase activities were raised. Liver biopsy was compatible with cholestasis induced by anabolic steroids. TREATMENT AND COURSE: Although the steroids had been discontinued, the patient's general condition deteriorated over 7 weeks. Serum bilirubin rose up to a maximum of 77.9 mg/dl. In addition renal failure developed with a creatinine concentration of 4.2 mg/dl. The patient's state improved simultaneously with the administration of ursodeoxycholic acid and the biochemical values gradually reached normal levels after several weeks. CONCLUSION: Anabolic steroids can cause severe cholestasis and acute renal failure. In this case there was a notable temporal coincidence between the administration of ursodeoxycholic acid and the marked clinical improvement.

 

[Annonamous1]

Your values may be okay for the time being but after a few years you will regret it.

 

[STANG 98]

Your values may be okay for the time being but after a few years you will regret it.

Agreed!

 

[TxLonghorn]

Although I would err on the side of caution, I don't think it's that big a deal. Nsaids (like aleve) and alcohol are hard on the liver and people do it all the time and they are fine.

Not to mention the liver is unbelievably resilient, the only caveat to this is if you have a healthy liver to begin with (bad genetics or whatnot). I seriously doubt a 12 oral cycle will cause any long term damage to the liver if that is the only thing you are taking/drinking that would affect the liver.

 

[Annonamous1]

I think the anadrol is more the issue. I think you could get away with the dbol but I wouldn't use the anadrol that long. With so many other AS out there why even risk running them that long.

 

[Mudge]

BDol affects my skin, so I wouldn't be one to use it for such a long time, I imagine you dont have that problem. I'd get the blood work though to make sure all is good.

 

[iced]

read the new MD. They gave elderly males (60-85) 100mg of anadrol ED for six weeks. Liver values came up slightly elevated, but nothing for concern. Only bad thing was lowered HDL (good chloresterol) I will dig up the study, think about it, old ass guys dropping 100mg of abombs, and being fine.

 

[saturn]

I'm not a fan of orals at all. I like to kick start my cycle with prop rather than dbol or drol.

 

[Drveejay11]

Although I would err on the side of caution, I don't think it's that big a deal. Nsaids (like aleve) and alcohol are hard on the liver and people do it all the time and they are fine.

Not to mention the liver is unbelievably resilient, the only caveat to this is if you have a healthy liver to begin with (bad genetics or whatnot). I seriously doubt a 12 oral cycle will cause any long term damage to the liver if that is the only thing you are taking/drinking that would affect the liver.

Great points here!

I too always err on the sifde of caution, but I believe the toxicity stories of 17-aa gear is exaggerated at times.

If you are going to run it longer............load up on:

Liv 52
Milk Thistle
ALA
Tyler's
Un-Godly amounts of water

Can ONLY help!

Spend the extra $ 50-75/month on double dosed liver protectants and I'm sure you'll significantly decrease the chances of hepatotoxicity issues!

PS: it always bothers me to know when bro's ONLY take liver protectants when ON!!!!

Always take these.........strengthen your liver and it's ability to detoxify year-round and you'll do even better at eradicating toxins while ON!

Besides, do you bro's think that GEAR is the only thing taxing to the liver anyway?????? HA!

All you bro's should pay close attention to you heart condition and lipid profiles and liver health YEAR- round! Not just while on! That's ridiculous!

StoneCold preaches very regularly about monitoring blood presure values! How many of you listen?!?!?!?!?!

I'm more concerned about my liver health and heart health than my cholesterol profile! But for some reason, cholesterol issues are all we ever hear about??????? Weird!

Be good to your body...........it'll be good to you! I plan on juicing until I'm in my late 80's ! LOL

 

[Drveejay11]

 

[BUFFDAWG10]

I may go over 6 weeks with d-bol every once in a while, but I sure wouldn't do it with A-50's!

 

[StoneColdNTO]

Great points here!

I too always err on the sifde of caution, but I believe the toxicity stories of 17-aa gear is exaggerated at times.

If you are going to run it longer............load up on:

Liv 52
Milk Thistle
ALA
Tyler's
Un-Godly amounts of water

Can ONLY help!

Spend the extra $ 50-75/month on double dosed liver protectants and I'm sure you'll significantly decrease the chances of hepatotoxicity issues!

PS: it always bothers me to know when bro's ONLY take liver protectants when ON!!!!

Always take these.........strengthen your liver and it's ability to detoxify year-round and you'll do even better at eradicating toxins while ON!

Besides, do you bro's think that GEAR is the only thing taxing to the liver anyway?????? HA!

All you bro's should pay close attention to you heart condition and lipid profiles and liver health YEAR- round! Not just while on! That's ridiculous!

StoneCold preaches very regularly about monitoring blood presure values! How many of you listen?!?!?!?!?!

I'm more concerned about my liver health and heart health than my cholesterol profile! But for some reason, cholesterol issues are all we ever hear about??????? Weird!

Be good to your body...........it'll be good to you! I plan on juicing until I'm in my late 80's ! LOL

GREAT ADVICE !!

I just got an idea, we should have a thread entitled "Best post of the Day", this one has my nomination for today, not to mention that you spelled "ridiculous" right, it has to be the most commonly mis-spelled word I see everyday. It is not "rediculous"

 

[buffdoc]

Great points here!

I too always err on the sifde of caution, but I believe the toxicity stories of 17-aa gear is exaggerated at times.

If you are going to run it longer............load up on:

Liv 52
Milk Thistle
ALA
Tyler's
Un-Godly amounts of water

Can ONLY help!

Spend the extra $ 50-75/month on double dosed liver protectants and I'm sure you'll significantly decrease the chances of hepatotoxicity issues!

PS: it always bothers me to know when bro's ONLY take liver protectants when ON!!!!

Always take these.........strengthen your liver and it's ability to detoxify year-round and you'll do even better at eradicating toxins while ON!

Besides, do you bro's think that GEAR is the only thing taxing to the liver anyway?????? HA!

All you bro's should pay close attention to you heart condition and lipid profiles and liver health YEAR- round! Not just while on! That's ridiculous!

StoneCold preaches very regularly about monitoring blood presure values! How many of you listen?!?!?!?!?!

I'm more concerned about my liver health and heart health than my cholesterol profile! But for some reason, cholesterol issues are all we ever hear about??????? Weird!


Kudos to you, bro. The amount of toxins our livers must endure daily even when "off" is astounding. Heavy metals, pesticides/herbicides, other drugs, xenoestrogens, and the list goes on and on. Protect it year round!

 

[mvmaxx]

GREAT ADVICE !!

I just got an idea, we should have a thread entitled "Best post of the Day", this one has my nomination for today, not to mention that you spelled "ridiculous" right, it has to be the most commonly mis-spelled word I see everyday. It is not "rediculous"

He better spell it right after going through Medical school. If not, best believe I'd be given him a ration of shit about it.

 

[Drveejay11]

He better spell it right after going through Medical school. If not, best believe I'd be given him a ration of shit about it.

LOL........bro, you NEVER STOP cracking me the f*ck up!!!!!!! LOL

 

[Drveejay11]

you spelled "ridiculous" right

LOL.........damn, you readin' my posts with your bifocals again? You make me nervous! LOL

 

[hhajdo]

Histol Histopathol 1993 Jul;8(3):449-55 Related Articles, Links


Ultrastructural changes induced by anabolic steroids in liver of trained rats.

Gragera R, Saborido A, Molano F, Jimenez L, Muniz E, Megias A.

Department of Cell Biology, Faculty of Biology, Complutensis University, Madrid, Spain.

The effects of anabolic steroid treatment in association with endurance training on biochemical serum parameters and liver ultrastructure have been investigated in male rats. Values of serum alanine aminotransferase, aspartate aminotransferase and alkaline phosphatase were not significantly affected by administration of high doses of fluoxymesterone or methylandrostanolone. Electron microscopic examination of hepatic tissue from treated animals revealed ultrastructural alterations of hepatocytes. The most prominent changes were swelling of mitochondria, which presented electron-lucent matrix and slightly defined cristae, and a marked increase in the number of lysosomes. These changes were evident in both sedentary and trained treated rats, indicating that liver cell damage is produced by anabolic-androgenic steroids despite the simultaneous realization of physical exercise. The alterations observed were not detected by means of conventional biochemical liver tests.

 

[Trevdog]

I am diligent about protecting my liver at all times but I have run orals for as long as 12 weeks in a row. I'm not necessarily recommending it but you aren't the only one who goes beyond 6 weeks.