Are we simply taking too much?Oldschool vs Newschool.

[HkAsianSensation]

Currently i'm in my first cycle of test e and dianabol and I love the gains I have attained from it. So far in week 5 ive put on over 10 lbs and im trying to push it to 12 weeks.

Being a guy who plays by the tune of his own fiddle, i've been experimenting with Dbol and test dose and frequency to find out what work for me. My doses have ranged from 5-30mg dbol ed and 300 to 500mg of test w adex as needed.

What ive learnt from my own body is that I armoatise test and especially dbol very quickly and im very prone to
bloating
gyno
erectile disfunction due to estrogen build up.
That it was a good i found these things out. I take adex ranges from .25 to .3 unless gyno or lack of erection gets out of control in which I take a mg. On the other hand, i love low doses of dbol 15 under, especially w 10 preworkout.

This gets me thinking about life before AIs, Serms and PCTs and Dan's underground theories. Thinking of the classic guys like Oliva, Schwarzenegger, Boyer, Zane to Young Lee Haney, could they have actually been who they are on tge doses we're on now but without AIs? I logically believe because of some irreversable sides, the great bodybuilders back in the day HAD to take much more mild doses with a much greater focus on balls to the wall training and diet. Heck, a guy like robbie robinson had sickel cell aniemia and it would act up if he dose to high. How do you expect them to recover post cycle? Drugs don't make a champion.

All being said, today we trick the body with AI's to cram more Roid and most people still look shit. In the words of lee haney bodybuilding is about the "quality and not the quantity".

 

[AnonEagle]

Did they really not have AIs? That is the only issue I can see with them old days. I would be surprised if they didn't have something to control bloat.

Other than the bloat issue though, it doesn't really matter. All but guarantee that they jacked up their HPTAs etc, but if you're just gonna blast/cruise & hop on TRT for the rest of your life, there's really not much need for the PCTs and everything that is out there these days. And let's not kid ourselves, PCTs are only partially effective anyways. Everyone I know that ran 5-10+ cycles ends up with fucked up natural T production even if they did have perfect PCTs. And then there's the people who do 1 cycle and even with a PCT just never fully recover

 

[halfwit]

Did they really not have AIs? That is the only issue I can see with them old days. I would be surprised if they didn't have something to control bloat.

Other than the bloat issue though, it doesn't really matter. All but guarantee that they jacked up their HPTAs etc, but if you're just gonna blast/cruise & hop on TRT for the rest of your life, there's really not much need for the PCTs and everything that is out there these days. And let's not kid ourselves, PCTs are only partially effective anyways. Everyone I know that ran 5-10+ cycles ends up with fucked up natural T production even if they did have perfect PCTs. And then there's the people who do 1 cycle and even with a PCT just never fully recover

Aromatase inhibitors were not around in the early days, but tamoxifen was. Many of the amateur guys would rely on zinc and hope they would be okay. Some knew about SERM's, but it wasn't really widespread (AFAIK) until the late 90's. Tamoxifen was discovered in the 60's if that's any indication.

Bloat can be managed with diuretics, and has been traditionally in the not-so-distant past. In fact, many competitors still use them on top of other agents (including AI's) pre-contest.

I definitely do recommend keeping on top of estradiol though; guys 20 years ago didn't know how it can do more than just bloat and cause breast tissue. We are in a much better time now, although I do think that the physiques during the "golden age" of bodybuilding were more in tune with what should be considered great. But I digress.

My .02c

 

[siq]

Back then guys just ate dbol like candy, No AI, No pct... Like I've always said its overrated, but if u talk about it too much on the forums youll just get flamed.

 

[China_Wall]

Currently i'm in my first cycle of test e and dianabol and I love the gains I have attained from it. So far in week 5 ive put on over 10 lbs and im trying to push it to 12 weeks.

Being a guy who plays by the tune of his own fiddle, i've been experimenting with Dbol and test dose and frequency to find out what work for me. My doses have ranged from 5-30mg dbol ed and 300 to 500mg of test w adex as needed.

What ive learnt from my own body is that I armoatise test and especially dbol very quickly and im very prone to
bloating
gyno
erectile disfunction due to estrogen build up.
That it was a good i found these things out. I take adex ranges from .25 to .3 unless gyno or lack of erection gets out of control in which I take a mg. On the other hand, i love low doses of dbol 15 under, especially w 10 preworkout.

This gets me thinking about life before AIs, Serms and PCTs and Dan's underground theories. Thinking of the classic guys like Oliva, Schwarzenegger, Boyer, Zane to Young Lee Haney, could they have actually been who they are on tge doses we're on now but without AIs? I logically believe because of some irreversable sides, the great bodybuilders back in the day HAD to take much more mild doses with a much greater focus on balls to the wall training and diet. Heck, a guy like robbie robinson had sickel cell aniemia and it would act up if he dose to high. How do you expect them to recover post cycle? Drugs don't make a champion.

All being said, today we trick the body with AI's to cram more Roid and most people still look shit. In the words of lee haney bodybuilding is about the "quality and not the quantity".

I noticed a few things about your post...

you are all over the place on dosages, that won't help in any way to get you dialed in... for instance depending on which ester test you are running you won't be able to "feel" the difference in a higher/lower dosage for 2-4 weeks.

one other thing... 15mg of dbol per day is USELESS, and 10mg of dbol pre-workout will do NOTHING for you, it's not a stimulant

keep you ai at a constant dosage from start to finish, don't rock the boat

I'm just trying to help bro...