Best post cycle therapy (pct) for my cycle........

[trip643dp9]

Best PCT for my cycle........

What would be the best post cycle therapy (pct) for me in terms of this cycle? I don't know too much about the post cycle therapy (pct) stuff, so any help would be appreciated.

150mg prop M/W/F
100mg primo M/W/F
for 5 weeks

I'm in my second week now I just want to know what I need to get and how to take it in advance just to be safe. Thanks!

 

[LAWNSAVER]

Your cycle wasn't planned out well!

Primo takes 6-8 weeks to really kick in. Its actions are very slow acting.

First off, I would extend your cycle to 8 weeks.

Second, you should have research post cycle therapy (pct) as it is more important than the cycle.

Your cycle is pretty mild, so the basic post cycle therapy (pct) should work fine

Clomid: 300mg day 1, 100mg next 10, and 50mg final 10 days.

Nolvadex: 60mg day 1, 20mg next 10, and 10mg final 10 days.

HCG shouldnt be needed, but if you can get it, it will only make things easier.

Pick up 5000ius and take 500ius ED for the last 10 days of your cycle before post cycle therapy (pct) starts.

 

[Doom]

I agree with LS on the cycle part, thats not even enough time to get any benefits from what you are using, 8 weeks or longer is a better idea

A far as post cycle therapy (pct) goes, my view is a bit different, since 300mgs of clomid isnt gonn technically gonna kick start anything, and ur doses of test are very light, I would just use 100mgs for the first 10 days, and 50 for the last

HCG should be run first though

And LS, why the novla too, just wondering?

 

[Batman]

And LS, why the novla too, just wondering?

I think LS was meaning clomid OR nolva, not both.

 

[Nelson Montana]

This is an area of much debate. Personally, I disagree with the above statements.

First of all, 5 weeks is plenty. If you eat enough and train hard enough you can make some soli gains in that time. And you're more likely to keep a gain of 10 pounds than 20 pounds anyway.

Secondly, Primo does not take weeks to kick in. It is active in the bloodstream with an hour.

I absolutely hate Clomid and would never suggest that anyone use it.

Nolva is for gyno only and it's highly unlikely that you will get gyno from those dosages.

For a cycle that light, you may just need herbal therepy. (Naturally, I suggest Post-Cycle from www.proteinfactory.com since I designed it with these specifications in mind) You can keep Nolva on hand in case of the one in a million chance you get gyno, but that isn't really post cycle therapy (pct). If you don't have any symptoms during the cycle you should be fine.

If you MUST use a PC drug, it should be proviron.

HCG should only be used in cases of severe testicular athrophy -- again, highly unlikely with that cycle.

Good luck. And be careful.

 

[LAWNSAVER]

This is an area of much debate. Personally, I disagree with the above statements.

First of all, 5 weeks is plenty. If you eat enough and train hard enough you can make some soli gains in that time. And you're more likely to keep a gain of 10 pounds than 20 pounds anyway.

Secondly, Primo does not take weeks to kick in. It is active in the bloodstream with an hour.

I absolutely hate Clomid and would never suggest that anyone use it.

Nolva is for gyno only and it's highly unlikely that you will get gyno from those dosages.

For a cycle that light, you may just need herbal therepy. (Naturally, I suggest Post-Cycle from www.proteinfactory.com since I designed it with these specifications in mind) You can keep Nolva on hand in case of the one in a million chance you get gyno, but that isn't really post cycle therapy (pct). If you don't have any symptoms during the cycle you should be fine.

If you MUST use a PC drug, it should be proviron.

HCG should only be used in cases of severe testicular athrophy -- again, highly unlikely with that cycle.

Good luck. And be careful.

Come on Nelson... I wasn't implying that the primo isnt active...give me a break...LOL

I am saying that your body needs time to utilize the compound to grow muscle. I feel strongly that 5 weeks isnt enough time to see the benifits.

Your HPTA will be supressed anyway, so extend the cycle a little longer and see better gains.

I believe that HCg can be used properly to prevent atrophy. Nelson, why wait for a problem that you have to fix? Why not prevent it from happening. There is also the possibility of atrophy that will not revert. It happened to me personally. I still have one testicle that never regained its size.

Everyone is aware of your views on post cycle therapy (pct), but thousands upon thousand of people can't be wrong...it can't be a plecebo effect.

My first 2 cycles back in the day, was post cycle therapy (pct) free, and I lost 60-70% of my gains along with no libido, which after 3 months forced me to go back on.

Clomid, N-dex, A-dex, and HCg have been my best friends! They are friend to many.

Although a lot of the natural products you recomend work, I have not found them to be able to do what a true post cycle therapy (pct) can do.

I am sure we can debate this for days, but I have to stick to my guns when it truely works and and has helped many.

As for the above post cycle therapy (pct) recomendations, I was giving examples and wasnt telling to combine the 2 doses.

 

[LAWNSAVER]

Also, Nelson...

How does Proviron help post cycle with the HPTA??

I love proviron, dont get me wrong, and it isnt hard on the HPTA that is working fine, but how can the implementation of an androgen help with anything but libido and ED?

I am fully aware of its effects on increasing sperm count, but it could and probably will have a negative effect on HPTA recovery.

 

[trip643dp9]

thanks for the info...still a little confused on what to take though??? Get the clomind or nolva, or go the herbal route?? If herbal is the way to go then what should I purchase, how to take it, etc.??

 

[trip643dp9]

I see this is also a well debated subject, I just want to be sure I don't lose my boys. Does Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) make your sperm count go down when the natural test production goes down??

 

[Makaveli_786]

I'd go with pretty much just what Lawnsaver said except from the clomid part... Since its only a weak cycle you wont have any real problems though so you wont need the HCG... just my 2 pennys

 

[LAWNSAVER]

I'd go with pretty much just what Lawnsaver said except from the clomid part... Since its only a weak cycle you wont have any real problems though so you wont need the HCG... just my 2 pennys

Many of you are missing my point!!

If you use a drug as a preventive measure, how will you know if you really need it??

Will the cycle be highly suppressive?? No..., but since Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is so cheap, use it in small doses throughout the cycle to prevent the atrophy.

A lot of us use A-dex or Femera throughout a cycle. I would bet that if we decided not to use it, a lot of us wouldnt show signs of gyno. We still use it though...as a preventive measure!

Clomid or N-dex will do the job.

 

[panteracfh]

most use Adex and femara to prevent bloat and water retention... i don't know much about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), but i understand what your saying...why wait to have your balls shrink to wory about it..why not just prevent it...i also agree with either clomid or nolva...except with nolva...most who do it suggest just to use 40mg for 10 days then 20mg for 11 days...what do you think about that??

 

[LAWNSAVER]

to each their own...what ever works is the dose you should take!

 

[Nelson Montana]

Come on Nelson... I wasn't implying that the primo isnt active...give me a break...LOL

I am saying that your body needs time to utilize the compound to grow muscle. I feel strongly that 5 weeks isnt enough time to see the benifits.

......................................

NOT NECESSARILY TRUE. MUSCLE DOES NOT GROW INCREMENTALLY, IT GROWS IN SPURTS. AND THE MOST GROWTH COMES EARLY IN THE CYCLE. IT'S JUST THAT THE LONGER YOU'RE ON THE MORE "OVERALL" GROWTH YOU GET.


......................................

Your HPTA will be supressed anyway, so extend the cycle a little longer and see better gains.

.......................................

THIS IS FAULTY THINKING. THE LONGER YOU STAY ON, THE MORE SUPRESSED IT BECOMES.


......................................
I believe that HCg can be used properly to prevent atrophy. Nelson, why wait for a problem that you have to fix? Why not prevent it from happening.

.....................................

BECAUSE EVERYTIME YOU INTRODUCE ANOTHER DRUG INTO YOUR SYSTEM IT CAUSES ANOTHER PROBLEM. TOO MANY PEOPLE THINK THERE'S A DRUG TO FIX EVERYTHING. THERE ARE NO FREE RIDES. USE Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) TOO MUCH AND YOU'LL SUPRESS YOUR LH PRODUCTION FOR GOOD.

.......................................
There is also the possibility of atrophy that will not revert. It happened to me personally. I still have one testicle that never regained its size.

Everyone is aware of your views on post cycle therapy (pct), but thousands upon thousand of people can't be wrong...it can't be a plecebo effect.

.....................................


THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE CAN VERY WELL BE WRONG. THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT HMB WAS WORKING FOR THEM. THOUSANDS OF BODYBUILDERS FROM THE 60'S DID NO post cycle therapy (pct) AT ALL AND NEVER GOT GYNO.

.....................................
My first 2 cycles back in the day, was post cycle therapy (pct) free, and I lost 60-70% of my gains along with no libido, which after 3 months forced me to go back on.Clomid, N-dex, A-dex, and HCg have been my best friends! They are friend to many.

Although a lot of the natural products you recomend work, I have not found them to be able to do what a true post cycle therapy (pct) can do.
......................................

IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE USING SO MANY THINGS IT'S HARD TO TELL WHAT'S WORKING. THEY HAVE THEIR PLACE, BUT WITH THE PROPER post cycle therapy (pct), YOU WOULDN'T NEED HALF OF WHAT YOU'RE USING. TO SOME GUYS, THAT'S AN ATTRACTIVE PROPOSITION. OTHERS WON'T CARE. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU STAYED OFF FOR 6 MONTHS? DO YOU KNOW HOW WELL YOUR HPTA WILL OPERATE ON ITS OWN?


....................................

I am sure we can debate this for days, but I have to stick to my guns when it truely works and and has helped many.
As for the above post cycle therapy (pct) recomendations, I was giving examples and wasnt telling to combine the 2 doses.

 

[LAWNSAVER]

I am saying that your body needs time to utilize the compound to grow muscle. I feel strongly that 5 weeks isnt enough time to see the benifits.

......................................

NOT NECESSARILY TRUE. MUSCLE DOES NOT GROW INCREMENTALLY, IT GROWS IN SPURTS. AND THE MOST GROWTH COMES EARLY IN THE CYCLE. IT'S JUST THAT THE LONGER YOU'RE ON THE MORE "OVERALL" GROWTH YOU GET.

I would really like to see proof that muslces grow in spurts. I know that hormones cycle in spurts, but true muslce growth takes time. Most of the weight in the first few weeks is water weight. You also have to think about how your body wants to react to sudden changes in weight. The first reaction is to reject the weight. Thats why longer cycles give more muscle gains that are easier to maintain, as your body has a longer time to accept the new growth.


......................................

Your HPTA will be supressed anyway, so extend the cycle a little longer and see better gains.

.......................................

THIS IS FAULTY THINKING. THE LONGER YOU STAY ON, THE MORE SUPRESSED IT BECOMES.

Now dont twist my words. I didnt say anything to the fact of that point. I was saying that adding 3-4 weeks to a cycle will increase the gains, while still being pretty easy to recover from.


......................................
I believe that HCg can be used properly to prevent atrophy. Nelson, why wait for a problem that you have to fix? Why not prevent it from happening.

.....................................

BECAUSE EVERYTIME YOU INTRODUCE ANOTHER DRUG INTO YOUR SYSTEM IT CAUSES ANOTHER PROBLEM. TOO MANY PEOPLE THINK THERE'S A DRUG TO FIX EVERYTHING. THERE ARE NO FREE RIDES. USE Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) TOO MUCH AND YOU'LL SUPRESS YOUR LH PRODUCTION FOR GOOD.

It is larger more prolonged doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) that can cause problems. Small doses spread out through the cycle will not cause the problems your speak about. If you read any of my posts, I don't advice large doses. How can you be so sure that all of your herbal answers dont have any long term effects on our body?? Dont even try and say there is no possibility for problems, as we won't know for a long time.

.......................................
There is also the possibility of atrophy that will not revert. It happened to me personally. I still have one testicle that never regained its size.

Everyone is aware of your views on post cycle therapy (pct), but thousands upon thousand of people can't be wrong...it can't be a plecebo effect.

.....................................


THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE CAN VERY WELL BE WRONG. THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT HMB WAS WORKING FOR THEM. THOUSANDS OF BODYBUILDERS FROM THE 60'S DID NO post cycle therapy (pct) AT ALL AND NEVER GOT GYNO.

How many men were into body building in the 60's?? I would say only the extremely gifted, which was an extremely low number. Today we have 20-30 times the amount in the game. That would cause us to see many side effects that werent apparent in the 60's. The doses taken back then were not nearly the doses of today. All the want-a-bes are taking 5-10 times the doses of the 60's. You are not comparing apples to apples, which is not a fair comparison. We also dont know the private lives of the elite athletes of the past. We dont know about libido problems, high BP, Etc.

post cycle therapy (pct) works using clomid, and/or N-dex, and/or HCG.

.....................................
My first 2 cycles back in the day, was post cycle therapy (pct) free, and I lost 60-70% of my gains along with no libido, which after 3 months forced me to go back on.Clomid, N-dex, A-dex, and HCg have been my best friends! They are friend to many.

Although a lot of the natural products you recomend work, I have not found them to be able to do what a true post cycle therapy (pct) can do.
......................................

IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE USING SO MANY THINGS IT'S HARD TO TELL WHAT'S WORKING. THEY HAVE THEIR PLACE, BUT WITH THE PROPER post cycle therapy (pct), YOU WOULDN'T NEED HALF OF WHAT YOU'RE USING. TO SOME GUYS, THAT'S AN ATTRACTIVE PROPOSITION. OTHERS WON'T CARE. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU STAYED OFF FOR 6 MONTHS? DO YOU KNOW HOW WELL YOUR HPTA WILL OPERATE ON ITS OWN?

I wasnt saying I use them all at one time. I was just listing the most popular post cycle therapy (pct) drugs.

I have been off for 9 months as my wife and I were trying for a baby. Fortunately my sperm was good enough and my first child is on the way, but my test levels were low and I am on HRT.


Nelson, we all have our beliefs and ways to get from point a to point b.

I dont agree with some of your views. Does it make them wrong?? No

But why is it so important for you to try and make people look bad?

Clomid is an FDA approved med for men trying to have children. It was tested for years before it was released. I dont know what else to say.

Does your form of post cycle therapy (pct) work?? Probably for some...as Clomid and its cousins work well for some. Everyone is different and thats just life.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Hey Bro, I'm not trying to make anybody look bad. But there are some things that my years of observation, study and experience tell me are not in conjuncton with the standard guesswork -- and that's what a lot of it is -- guesswork.

You believe that it takes the body a while to adapt to newfound muscle. I agree. But I believe,( and all the evidence concurs with this) that you must adapt to weight slowly. That means 5-6 pounds -- then hold it naturally, then another 5-6 pounds. Nobody gains 20 pounds every time out and keeps it. Nobody.

There are no known problems stemming from herbal therapy. The dangers of most drugs mentioned have been known from the start.


You say that the guys from the 60's didn't take as much as the guys today. Which guys? If you mean that some kids who weigh 160 pounds are taking more than Larry Scott did, you're right! But what does that tell you?!?! That the kid needs more drugs?! Or that todays BB's need to learn more about diet and exercise?

Clomid is an FDA fertlity drug for women, not men.

Nolva is an anti tumor drug . It is not prescribed for infertilty, hypogonadsm, or as an anti e in men.
It's use in men is another example of a few gurus guessing it would be a good idea and everyone followed suit.

 

[SWALE]

Well, maybe it's time I ring in on this.

The HPTA becomes suppressed quite quickly. I wouldn't call it an "acute phase reactant", but given the length of the average steroid cycle, it could be thought of as so. It's not that it becomes "more suppressed" as time goes on. I see total suppression after four weeks (and even after only two weeks on a comparable dose of a transdermal--but that is just because that is when I happen to draw the respective labwork, not a function of any difference betwen transdermal and IM administration) at only 100mg per week all the time. I have literally hundreds of labs to prove this.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the length of suppression has any bearing on the required length of recovery. No pattern has been found in my patients when comparing the recovery of my patients who were on for a month or a year.

HCG should be used all through the cycle, right from the start. It has been shown that testicular performance is the rate limiting step in post cycle therapy (pct), as LH levels will rise before the testes can accomodate it. That is why it is important to maintain their form and function all along the way. It certainly makes sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, than to have to chase it across five counties.

If someone has a particular sensitivity to Clomid, then they certainly should stay from it. However, the vast majority find it to be a safe and very effective medication. Just because one guy doesn't like it doesn't men no one should use it.

Clomid very well COULD be used as a fertility drug. It is just that it was developed for women, and so was never researched for use in men. I should say, I haven't seen any studies on this, but there certainly could be. But its actions in men would indeed effect same, by virtue of its well-proven gonadotrophin inducing effects.

But the REAL value in using a SERM such as Nolvadex or Clomid during post cycle therapy (pct) is in restarting the hypothalamic impulse generator. Blocking estrogen at the tissues of the breast along the way is an added benefit. If one is experiencing true gyno, then they should be using an appropriately dosed Aromatase inhibitor (AI), which would be much better.

It is true that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) should never be used in large dosages. I recommend never more than 500IU per day (however, many men use it at that dosage EVERY day).

An Aromatase inhibitor (AI) should NEVER be used post cycle. Doing so would require constant monitoring of E levels, as you run the risk of driving same too low. This would further damage the recovering Lipid Profile--and thereby extend the time of plaque deposition within the cardiovascular system.

 

[Green888]

Well, maybe it's time I ring in on this.

HCG should be used all through the cycle, right from the start. It has been shown that testicular performance is the rate limiting step in post cycle therapy (pct), as LH levels will rise before the testes can accomodate it. That is why it is important to maintain their form and function all along the way. It certainly makes sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, than to have to chase it across five counties.

So, in a 10 week cycle of Test, where would you use the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) ?
and how much !
Can a Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) be refigurated after beeing mixed, and for how long ?

 

[Green888]

I guess many people have different opinions about post cycle therapy (pct), i certainly am confused !
some say "use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during the cyle"
and some say "NEVER use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during the cycle"
...and "clomid is better than N-dex"

Are there any "true" scientific answer ? ...or are there no research in what we BB's call post cycle therapy (pct) ?

 

[pipes]

Pct is an essential stage of a cycle. I don't agree with the use of hcg. When you are coming off of one artifical testesterone you don't need to jump onto another. This is the case with hcg. Your body's natural test is gone so you supply it with artificail means. Just taper down your doses near the end of your cycle and use clomid therapy. As far as using proviron for post cycle therapy (pct), I believe its an awsome Idea. It frees up more testesterone in your system and this would be benificial.