The labs absolutely do not pick up the test with the ester still attached. Esterified testosterone is esterified to increase the oil solubility of testosterone which then slows the rate of release from the site of the depot/injection. Testosterone is inert until the ester has been metabolized away. If the normal serum testosterone test could pick up the ester, you'd be able to take blood tests immediately after injection and get the reading. There's a reason blood levels don't peak for a few days or so post injection depending on the ester.
burning off the ester off the testosterone cyp ester
- Thread starter p91swat
- Start date
The labs absolutely do not pick up the test with the ester still attached. Esterified testosterone is esterified to increase the oil solubility of testosterone which then slows the rate of release from the site of the depot/injection. Testosterone is inert until the ester has been metabolized away. If the normal serum testosterone test could pick up the ester, you'd be able to take blood tests immediately after injection and get the reading. There's a reason blood levels don't peak for a few days or so post injection depending on the ester.
halfwit
I like turtles.
And what do you think metabolization is (Hint: Testosterone is a CYP3A4 substrate)? Your body puts the hormone to use, not that it magically shits it out. Yes, some are hyper-excreters, but that is different from what you're trying to speculate on here. Having test floating around in your bloodstream and not being put to use is not beneficial, so I don't know what you're getting at there.
If you're having kidney/liver pain, that's something you should see a doctor for as pain in those areas is indicative of serious problems. But I'm sure like most that come on here and don't see what they want to; you'll have some reason for avoiding actual medical professionals. Unfortunately most of the time when these types of threads pop up, you guys lack any proof of your claims and the line of reasoning, while sound, does lack some credibility.
testosterone is not a pro drug it does not need to be activated. testosterone is a substarte when the cholesterol needs to be made in to testosterone it causes a chemical reaction witch causes the cholesterol to form into testosterone via chemical reaction from the cyp341. i may be wrong.
like hydrocodone is a pro drug and needs to be activated by the cyp2ds into hydromorphone to take affect.
testosterone is testosterone from my understading exactly like you body and is ready to bind to androgen receptors as soon as you inject no chemical reaction required to alter the molecule to be active and take effect. am i correct or does the body have to alter the testosterone injected to be effect and ready for use.
from my understanding is cyp34a just get rid of the testosterone, it attches a carbon to it and then it gets excreated. and cyp34a turns cholesterol into testosterone.
and the liver and kidney pain only happened the first month and a half or after that it never happened again. was my body rejecting the ester? could it have built antibodies to it. now everytime i inject it know what it is and excretes it out of my system or just dont have proper esterase i guess.
i have yet to hear someone not responding to test prop that would the first.
but here the proof different esters do matter. not for everyone but some rare people they make a word of a difference.
is there any way the body could build anti bodies to testosterone iam injecting? cause it cant be no different then the natty test right?
Last edited:
2rude4u
New member
Uh yeah... NO! As Dre and Halfwit are pointing out your labs do not show ester levels, only test levels. So let's now use a little reason and common sense here.
By your own admission test levels are sky high, so what does that tell us? Normally the simplest explanations are the correct explanations. Since we know test levels are sky high, my assumption would be diet is shit and workout is half-assed at best. There could be other issues preventing maximum gains, but your body is utilizing the test cyp. It's more than likely you, that is not utilizing the test cyp, due to poor diet and training.
The other thing that bothers me is you say people on cyp for years, complaining of no sides. Exactly what kind of sides are you referring to and at what levels? We're talking test here, not tren or deca. I've been on test cyp testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for 4 years with numerous blasts at 500mg pw and I do not get any sides.
As far as kidney and liver pain is concerned at the beginning, it is easily explainable. When you introduce a foreign substance in to your body everyone will react differently. Many will have no issues what-so-ever and others will have various reactions such as aches, pains, fever and test flu.
Like I told you at the beginning... don't try and reinvent the wheel. Put together a program that has proven to work for everyone else and you will see results.
lol the people eho have been on for years injecting gram after gram and nothing like injecting water. i could be in the same boat if i had been dumb as theme. and believe me when i felt the test kick in that one week i could tell a mile away. injecting gram after gram for months and nothing like injecting sterile water lol wtf something aint right brother.
halfwit
I like turtles.
CYP3A4 and CYP450 enzymes are what allow us to metabolize drugs; putting them to use in our bodies. This is why many drugs have a warning about consuming grapefruit juice the juice has a reaction with the CYP450 chain, making it more effective (inhibitor). Even if you were to inject TNE, which has no ester - your body still requires the enzyme action to utilize the hormone. It just happens so quickly, that we don't normally even think about it. Here's a list of common Cytochrome P450 substrates and their inhibitors/inducers: Link.
Yes, part of the metabolization process is to excrete the unused portion or waste byproducts that come after the body has put the drug/compound to use. If the sole function of these enzymes was to merely allow you to excrete it, you would see zero benefit from any drugs that utilize this pathway of absorption/metabolization. Think of it as food; you eat food, your body breaks down the food, you absorb the nutrients, and excrete what is left over. It's pretty much similar in this process. Yes, this is how you use hydrocodone as the active metabolite is hydromorphone, which needs to be extracted by the Cytochrome pathway.
The only difference between each type of testosterone is the attached ester. So yes, test is test is test once you have cleaved the ester from the molecule. Once that is done, your body puts it to use through the above mentioned pathway and allows it to attach to not only the receptors, but to the SHBG and of course excrete what is left over in your urine/feces.
You are correct in that endogenous testosterone is also metabolized through this pathway, but I am not honestly sure where it comes into play as the chain from cholesterol to active hormone has a few more steps involved. Exogenous hormones are different in that this conversion isn't needed, but as they are bio-identical, I would imagine that your body doesn't see a difference in extraction of the parts it needs beyond this conversion from cholesterol to hormone. I hope that makes sense.
I have been trying to find more information regarding your speculation on esterase and its role in being unable to cleave certain esters, but my google-fu is a bit weak this afternoon. If I find something that will help this debate later on, I'll be sure to add it.
My .02c
Edit: Had the action of gfruit backwards. It's an inhibitor of cyp3a4, not an inducer - as excretion is slowed by it.
Last edited:
thanks bro for all the help. but i dont understand what does the cyp34a do to injected testosterone that it needs to be activated? does it attach a carbon or alter the testosterone chemically to make it active so it can bind to receptors?
if so then it must do the same to natty test also same process. so i cant possabily lack this process since my natty test is decent.
i dont believe cyp34a does anything to testosterone except attche a carbon to it to get rid/out of the body/ if it needed to be activated in any way then it would be considered a pro-drug.
if so then it must do the same to natty test also same process. so i cant possabily lack this process since my natty test is decent.
i dont believe cyp34a does anything to testosterone except attche a carbon to it to get rid/out of the body/ if it needed to be activated in any way then it would be considered a pro-drug.
You still have yet to explain how you felt the test kick in one week and the next that feeling vanished? You don't lose your ability to metabolize and ester or compound over night but over time. Do you have copies of the blood work that shows elevated testosterone levels? What were the results? What other panels were pulled? What exactlY are the effects you keep saying you "don't get". What are the effects you got the one week you felt it kick in? What's your diet like and what are your full stats? What's your cycle experience like and did you get results 2yrs ago or no? What's your training like? Etc.
All these are valid questions and you want to just sidestep them all and believe you are an "ester non-responder" when there's nothing in an ester to respond to? Then it's you don't have the esterase "to hydrolize the ester properly" but you feel it working when you "squeeze the test depot from your shoulder into fat stores"?? The same esterase responsible for hydrolyzation of the ester is responsible for the hydrolyzation of other compounds as well so you'd notice the same issues with more than just testosterone would you not?
half wit your not going to find much i started a tread on i steroids and had atleast 15 people come up and tell me the same problem. but they deleted the tread cause they thought it was mis information and going to hurt there bussiness of certain test ester sales.
i mean it rare but its reality. even with hydrocodone i dont respond to it as well i discovered i had to take a ton of sugar 15 minutes before consumption for it to alter the cyp2d6 somehow so it can convert it to hydronorphone other wise i get no effects from hydrocodone just the sides/ with sugar i get zero sides all the good benefits zero itchiness. of course this medication was prescribed when i hurt my back from work.
another question so lets say i inject test suspension would it need to be altered in any way by the body to activate it or it should be good to go as soon as you inject it? sure it has to be converted to dht and estrogen but the anabolic effects are from test and test should be active as soon as you inject right?
i mean it rare but its reality. even with hydrocodone i dont respond to it as well i discovered i had to take a ton of sugar 15 minutes before consumption for it to alter the cyp2d6 somehow so it can convert it to hydronorphone other wise i get no effects from hydrocodone just the sides/ with sugar i get zero sides all the good benefits zero itchiness. of course this medication was prescribed when i hurt my back from work.
another question so lets say i inject test suspension would it need to be altered in any way by the body to activate it or it should be good to go as soon as you inject it? sure it has to be converted to dht and estrogen but the anabolic effects are from test and test should be active as soon as you inject right?
Last edited:
halfwit
I like turtles.
It's an oxidative process. I'm trying to find you a good link on how it works, but 99% of the ones I've found require a subscription or an affiliation with a doctor's office/institution. A pro-drug is completely inactive, in this case it is a substrate - which just means that it utilizes the enzyme for metabolization, not that it's inert otherwise.
Bah, I'll have to get back to this later. Wife is bugging me to get to the store with her, but I'll find something for you. You are partially correct in that the cyp3a4 DOES influence how a drug is activated/rendered inactive/excreted, but that's all part of how drugs are metabolized. I'll get back to this later, I promise.
thanks man. if thats the case then testosterone is a partially a pro drug and needs to be activated witch means the liver has to attch a molecule to it or alter it chemically somehow, and testosterone in a injection is actually not testosterone until it gets activated by the liver?
2rude4u
New member
WHAT??? Hurt test ester sales??? WTF are you talking about???
Oh Damn... Look at the time... I gotta go I got a thing... Yeah that's it I gotta thing!
Megatron28
Moderator
Do you know what your SHBG levels are?
the fuck dont you understand about that. people were going to get biased against certain esters. especially new users. but that was not my intention it was just for people who dont react well to cyp.
That would shift sales to another ester IF it were true. No one has a financial stake in an ester's sales here so it makes no sense whatsoever
well iam talking about different forum they have sponsors. people react different to different ester thats just a fact.
Of course they do, most forums survive off sponsors; even this one does. The point is the sponsor has a product LINE not A product. They have very little if any incentive to push a particular ester over another. If less cypionate gets sold most of those sales will go to enanthate ester and the rest to propionate, or sustanon, or undecanoate, etc. Why would anyone care if less cypionate is sold when sales would primarily shift laterally to other products from the same sponsor?
Would you care to elaborate on what you're implying here?
whats there to elaborate man, search forum like when people say they get more bloat on one ester to the other like they like enth better then cyp and so on there not talking out of there ass it really does make a difference. your body will react differently to certain ester it might break down enth faster then cyp. even though it is 1 carbon difference the ester is made from a different chemical or substance so it reacts differently in the body some people dont notice much other it's day and night.
That's because they aren't managing estrogen properly that they get more bloat.
Why would you notice the difference in ester metabolism if it's not activating cellular receptors?
I will answer OPs question. Dissolve your powder in methanol, not too much but a little extra won't hurt. Just make sure everything is dissolved, you can filter at this point if you have undissolved particulate (and have good lab grade filter paper and a funnel). Now for every 100ml of this solution you need to add 10ml of NaOH/methanol solution. You can make this by adding an excess of NaOH prills to methanol and heating/stirring. This is rough, this is not a stoichiometric reaction. Let this sol. stand until you observe no more color/opacity change. Some esters cleave immediately, others take time. Its also dependent on temperature and NaOH concentration/PH. Now add 100-200ml of water, test base will precipitate off. Filter this, then dry and redissolve in methanol and precipitate again with water. Repeat until it does not smell or test alkaline to litmus. This will ensure no NaOH or ester is carried over into your base. Alternatively you could use dichloromethane to extract instead of filtering. Recrystallization could also be done from various solvents if desired. Hope this helps.
Also. For good suspension you must mill this powder down using a ball mill. I have found a film container with tungsten carbide balls works well, glass scratches and contaminates your powder. HDPE is perfect. Also the milling must be done wet because test is clumpy. Ceramic balls and maybe even stainless balls might work, although stainless is on the soft side. Then you must dry with a vacuum desiccator, or calcium chloride plus a bit of heat, it is slow process. Then wet with few drops of polysorbate 80, then add water/0.8% ba. Transfer into vial and sterilize in boiling water for 10min, shaking till cool. 200mg/ml works through a 30g, sub-q, no pain. Big PITA to make, much harder then standard homebrew, but no other way for real suspension. Better to buy it unless you are an experimenter.
Also. For good suspension you must mill this powder down using a ball mill. I have found a film container with tungsten carbide balls works well, glass scratches and contaminates your powder. HDPE is perfect. Also the milling must be done wet because test is clumpy. Ceramic balls and maybe even stainless balls might work, although stainless is on the soft side. Then you must dry with a vacuum desiccator, or calcium chloride plus a bit of heat, it is slow process. Then wet with few drops of polysorbate 80, then add water/0.8% ba. Transfer into vial and sterilize in boiling water for 10min, shaking till cool. 200mg/ml works through a 30g, sub-q, no pain. Big PITA to make, much harder then standard homebrew, but no other way for real suspension. Better to buy it unless you are an experimenter.
Similar threads
